Dwight: Staying or Going?

Is Dwight staying or going? And what do you want?

Poll ended at Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:58 am

Staying, and I want him to stay
25
36%
Going, but I want him to stay
35
50%
Staying, but I want him to go
1
1%
Going, and I want him to go
8
11%
 
Total votes : 69

Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:38 am

therealdeal wrote:No offense Snakkell, but that's a terrible trade for us. Even if we could receive players in a sign and trade (and we can't) we'd have to give a long term deal to Carl Landry. Rush is worse than any of the other prospects we SHOULD ask for in return. Biedrins is legitimately garbage and so is Jefferson.

I don't want ANY part of that deal.


No, you're wrong. 1st, I forgot about that stupid no sign and trade thing, so I changed the deal. Second, Biedrins is better than Sacre as a back-up to Pau. RJ is FINE, he is just out of the loop in GS because of Harrison Barnes playing nearly 40 a night. RJ is still in good shape, and he is a better option than Artest at the 3. Given the minutes, he is till a good defender and passer who can shoot the 3 very well.

Brandon Rush is a decent shooter/scorer who comes at a cheap price (who also expires after this season) and the reason we don't take any young prospects from GS is it kills the deal.

Dwight won't take the deal if Barnes or Thompson are no longer on the roster when he is there. The main reason to take this deal is for the additional 2014 first rounder and the cap flexibility next season. Face reality man, Dwight leaving has already ruined the season for the Lakers.

We need to think for the future, not play a scorched earth game of chicken to try to get as much as we can for Dwight, then get nothing and not only tank completely this year, but be left with less options moving forward. Since we were already GOING to spend the money to keep Dwight, then in order to field a team that will attract attendance and best position for next season, an extra first rounder really helps.

You probably figure that if the Warriors are great next year, the extra first rounder isn't that great, but then we are not going to be as good next year with this roster, so our pick winds up the same as what we would have gotten PLUS an extra first rounder in a deep draft.

The expiring contracts are a way for us to pry that first rounder away from GS, especially since the absence of Bogut in the deal allows GS to acquire another first rounder from Utah, as well as a probable Traded Player Exception to add players to their roster next season. It is a win-win.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:48 am

Snakell Beast wrote:No, you're wrong.

Always a strong way to start your argument.
Snakell Beast wrote:Second, Biedrins is better than Sacre as a back-up to Pau.

Based on what evidence. Have you seen Biedrins play lately? On a team with Festus Ezeli as your primary big man, Biedrins CAN'T EVEN GET OFF THE BENCH. The dude is plain garbage.

Snakell Beast wrote: RJ is FINE, he is just out of the loop in GS because of Harrison Barnes playing nearly 40 a night

Jefferson is NOT fine. He fell out of the rotation in San Antonio because he was an offensive liability and his defense wasn't as strong or useful as it used to be. He's garbage. It's why he can't even SPLIT time with a rookie as a multi-year vet in the NBA. He can't get off the bench either even with BRANDON RUSH GOING DOWN AT THE START OF THE SEASON.

He's GARBAGE.

Snakell Beast wrote:Brandon Rush is a decent shooter/scorer who comes at a cheap price (who also expires after this season) and the reason we don't take any young prospects from GS is it kills the deal.

I disagree. You see, Brandon Rush is a decent shooter/scorer who comes at a cheap price so he's ideal for being next to Howard who is none of those things.

Snakell Beast wrote:Dwight won't take the deal if Barnes or Thompson are no longer on the roster when he is there.

There's no evidence of that.
Snakell Beast wrote:The main reason to take this deal is for the additional 2014 first rounder and the cap flexibility next season.
The main reason to take ANY deal is to begin the rebuild. You don't rebuild with s***ty old veterans and one okay young player.

Snakell Beast wrote:We need to think for the future, not play a scorched earth game of chicken to try to get as much as we can for Dwight, then get nothing and not only tank completely this year, but be left with less options moving forward.

Who is playing any type of "scorched Earth game of chicken"?

Asking for a good return for trading the best Center in the game isn't that big of deal. We'd be making an awful, ridiculous mistake if we traded Howard and didn't get back a single young prospect that's worth a damn. The Lakers will let Dwight WALK before they take back a package that has anything less than a legitimate prospect in it. It's not worth the money.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:59 am

As a matter of fact, I would not only do this deal, but I would also Amnesty Artest, then trade Blake, Meeks and Hill for partially protected second rounders in future drafts. That way we dump Artest's salary from the Cap, completely eliminate another 9 million from our cap AND net expenditures, and add more assets (picks and trade exceptions) for rebuilding going forward.

I would just use D-league and undrafted rookie deals to fill out the roster, which would ensure that we basically tank this season. If Kobe isn't on board, I amnesty him INSTEAD of Artest and keep the savings for the future.

Nash / Calderon / min
Kobe / Morris / min
Rush / RJ / min
Kelly / Biedrins / min
Pau / Sacre / min
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby marcelo on Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:14 am

I'm fine with the expirings if the FO can solve the tax problems, but if you can't get a combination of Barnes/Thompson/1st (not all of them), or some other decent return from a third team, just let him walk.
Biedrins, RJ and Bogut... I rather watch Ryan Kelly start.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:22 am

therealdeal wrote:Always a strong way to start your argument.


IRRELEVANT Statement.

therealdeal wrote:Based on what evidence. Have you seen Biedrins play lately? On a team with Festus Ezeli as your primary big man, Biedrins CAN'T EVEN GET OFF THE BENCH. The dude is plain garbage.


He is a body used as a way to entice GS to deal us a first rounder in 2016. His talent level is higher than Sacre at this point, whether you believe it or not. Mainly, he had a clash with the organization...that's why he's not playing. They don't like his attitude or work ethic, but I don't care. He's better than the d-league guy we could afford to replace Dwight with if we lose Howard for nothing.

therealdeal wrote:Jefferson is NOT fine. He fell out of the rotation in San Antonio because he was an offensive liability and his defense wasn't as strong or useful as it used to be. He's garbage. It's why he can't even SPLIT time with a rookie as a multi-year vet in the NBA. He can't get off the bench either even with BRANDON RUSH GOING DOWN AT THE START OF THE SEASON.


Richard Jefferson wasn't traded out of San Antonio because he can't play. San Antonio moved him because they got Kawai Leaonard (mainly because they needed to surround Duncan and Ginobili with younger players) and RJ didn't fit the bill as an expensive bencher. Age added to age doesn't really work, especially on a team that doesn't have a superstar to take the pressure away from the role players.

Also, considering RJ would be attached to a 2014 first rounder AND replacing an amnestied MWP, it's a SERIOUS value upgrade in my opinion. Golden State made many statements over the past few seasons explaining that Richard Jefferson wasn't playing because they wanted to develop their younger players, and that is was not representative of his ability.

therealdeal wrote:I disagree. You see, Brandon Rush is a decent shooter/scorer who comes at a cheap price so he's ideal for being next to Howard who is none of those things.
Not sure what you're saying here. You think Howard would be excited to essentially trade Harrison Barnes for Brandon Rush. Pipe dreamin' there buddy.

therealdeal wrote:There's no evidence of that.

Yes, there is. There have been NUMEROUS reports in the media leading up to the past few days saying that Dwight wouldn't be willing to be part of a sign and trade if it meant gutting the young core that the Warriors currently have.

therealdeal wrote:The main reason to take ANY deal is to begin the rebuild. You don't rebuild with s***ty old veterans and one okay young player.

You see, there is this little thing called a salary cap. We can't just trade Dwight for their first rounders, we need to trade salary for salary in this instance. That means we have to receive equivalent salary for Dwight's 20+ million from GS.

Bogut is an injury waiting to happen at 14 mil, so he is a waste of time for the Lakers, especially since The roster would have the same issues with Bogut/Gasol that they had with Howard Gasol, as well as more defensive issues than they had before. Also, Bogut is not a fit for D'Antoni's system either...plus Utah is willing to trade picks to get him.

GS would be foolish not to try to get Dwight AND the assets from Utah, especially since two first rounders are more enticing to a now rebuilding Lakers than Bogut's expiring contract. Also, the added assets make Dwight more amenable to a trade to GS. David Lee would be a willing sacrifice from GS, but he tanks LA's 2014 plans, so no dice there either. Howard has already said Barnes or Thompson cannot be included in the deal or he will sign with Houston.

That leaves RJ and Biedrins (both expiring contracts) as the only contracts left for the Lakers to use to get those first rounders, which is a GREAT way to rebuild. The old crappy players you mention are a way for LA to get a first rounder in a deep draft AND a future first rounder...that, in case you didn't know, is called rebuilding...especially considering the Lakers also get a promising young player (Rush) who ALSO happens to expire after this season, so the Lakers can add some free agents and then resign Rush for more than anyone else.

therealdeal wrote:Who is playing any type of "scorched Earth game of chicken"?

Asking for a good return for trading the best Center in the game isn't that big of deal. We'd be making an awful, ridiculous mistake if we traded Howard and didn't get back a single young prospect that's worth a damn. The Lakers will let Dwight WALK before they take back a package that has anything less than a legitimate prospect in it. It's not worth the money.


You are. You are saying that unless they give us two young prospects who, together, are arguably as good or better than the player they are getting, then they won't get the "the best center in the game". We have no negotiating leverage here. Dwight is leaving. He is being gracious in offering us the ability to get something in return for his departure. We already have to rebuild next year, so having an extra first rounder in next year's deep draft, a 2016 (or other future) first rounder AND the contract rights to a young, athletic shooter/scorer is definitely already enough compensation from GS, especially considering that they would also be helping us shave salary/tax penalties off our books, via an Artest Amnesty.

Now, since the latest reports are saying that GS will offer a first rounder PER expiring (Biedrins AND RJ) then we should strongly demand TWO first rounders (2014 & 2016) in the deal. That would be more fair, it's just that since GS knows we are losing Dwight no matter what, we have no leverage so we might get hosed since GS can use Houston against us in negotiations. It's called a fire sale. Ultimately, it depends on who blinks first, LA or Golden State. I hope GS, but we are also in a precarious position.

PEOPLE need to realize my deal is not to get Biedrins and Richard Jefferson, it is to get the DRAFT PICKS and MAINTAIN cap flexibility. Houston can't offer that with Lin and Asik, and GS wouldn't and Shouldn't trade Barnes OR Thompson for a player they might be able to get on their own.

This deal (Howard for RJ, Biedrins, Rush 2014 & 2016 First round picks) gives LA the ability to save money with an amnesty of Artest and replace him with a player of similar age/value (RJ) who fits their offense better AND comes attached to a first rounder in next year's deep talented draft. The Lakers also receive a young player who can give them minutes at the 2 and 3, as well as outside shooting...which in this system, and with this roster sans Howard, is at a premium.

Biedrins has more value than whatever d-league player we would get to fill Howard's vacated roster spot, as capped strapped as we are, so I'm fine with him, especially since he comes with another first rounder in 2016. Beggars can't be choosers.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Azndude2190 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:00 am

I'd say he's leaving us, and I want him to leave.

Though he makes us a better team in the short term, in the long term, I honestly believe he's not the type of player you build a marquee franchise like the Lakers around. In the other thread, I mentioned that at best he's a really good player and All-Star, but he's not a Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, etc. Those are the type of players you build and rebuild around.

EDIT: Also now that Dwight is probably going to leave, the Lakers need to aggressively try to move Nash for picks and/or expiring contracts. If not 2014, then 2015.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby kennygee90 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:33 am

If Dwight leaves I'd hope we trade Gasol, amnesty Artest, trade Nash and tell Kobe to not rush himself ...I want that kid Andrew Wiggins if he's as good as everyone says he is...I'd take one really horrible year then get a real superstar for 10+ years..I know its a long shot but this would be my plan B
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Helljumper on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:39 am

I've been arguing for a while that we need to get back something in return via S&T if Dwight wants out ... but HEEEEEEELLLLLLL NOOO to that Biedrins/Rush/Jefferson idea.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:45 am

Helljumper wrote:I've been arguing for a while that we need to get back something in return via S&T if Dwight wants out ... but HEEEEEEELLLLLLL NOOO to that Biedrins/Rush/Jefferson idea.

Yeah we'll just leave it there. :man10:

I just don't have the patience to argue that, but the trade is not good.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:03 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Helljumper wrote:I've been arguing for a while that we need to get back something in return via S&T if Dwight wants out ... but HEEEEEEELLLLLLL NOOO to that Biedrins/Rush/Jefferson idea.

Yeah we'll just leave it there. :man10:

I just don't have the patience to argue that, but the trade is not good.


It's too late now, Utah jumped on that...Oh well, now we lose Dwight for nothing. With my deal, we would have gotten Rush and an extra first next year (and an extra future first) to rebuild with and be in the same position (financially) we are in now, only now we have only 1 first round pick and nothing extra to show for it, as well as no ability to add any replacements for Howard or to fill the holes in our roster.

We need a PG with a pulse and NBA talent, SF with at least NBA average shooting and athleticism, starting calibur PF with a jumpshot, back-up SG who isn't an embarrassment, and TWO better than d-league centers. I don't see how/where we are going to get that, since Matt Barnes was too expensive for us.

LeBron isn't coming in 2014, and now that we have not one nba level player on our roster after this season(Nash is garbage at 41), it will be tough to attract any free agents, not to mention that all the quality free agents are locked up or way overrated / too expensive. We should amnesty Kobe, he deserves better than this. :man5:
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:18 pm

Adrian Wojnarowski: Golden State will send first-round picks in 2014 and 2017 to the Jazz, league sources tell Y! Sports. Twitter


Adrian Wojnarowski: Beyond the two first-rounders to the Jazz, Golden State has included future second-round picks in deal too, sources tell Y! Sports. Twitter


Wow, we could have had two future firsts (2014 & 2017) two future seconds, Brandon Rush AND two veteran players at need positions who are better than what we can afford on the free agent market!!! And all of this for someone who was already leaving anyway...I mean it's not like we CHOSE to lose Dwight, he chose to leave. This, IMHO would have been making the best out of a bad situation...talk about rebuilding...4 new draft picks and a young 2/3 combo ADDED TO the 2014 cap space plan, going forward, to go after 2 max level free agents...:man2: :mad1: :bang: Congrats, you guys get what you want :disagree:
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Weezy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:40 pm

I think Dwight wants to go have fun in Houston. I think the old baseball call applies here, "he's going, going, GONE! That Dwight is outta here!"

Still, I would hope something can be worked out with GS, and that he'd like to go there. I can't see how he'd want to stay here at this point after seeing these other teams make moves to lure him or afford him.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:08 pm

Looks like the word is "gone"
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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