Dwight: Staying or Going?

Is Dwight staying or going? And what do you want?

Poll ended at Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:58 am

Staying, and I want him to stay
25
36%
Going, but I want him to stay
35
50%
Staying, but I want him to go
1
1%
Going, and I want him to go
8
11%
 
Total votes : 69

Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Pig Miller on Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:58 am

Mods, I wanted to just get a actual % of what people thought/want as it concerns d12.

if there's any way to combine this with the main D12 thread, please do so. i'm not looking to create clutter.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby kakafung on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:12 am

i thought it's a post for count down :jam2:
anyway stay with the goat
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby noobiew on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:35 am

talking about % now ? :man12:

Then I am guessing 45% Houston, 40% Lakers and 15% S&T to the Warriors
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby LTLakerFan on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:41 am

noobiew wrote:talking about % now ? :man12:

Then I am guessing 45% Houston, 40% Lakers and 15% S&T to the Warriors


Dude! :man10: Did you just pull those numbers out of your butt? Much closer to 47% Houston, 39% Lakers and 14% S&T to the Warriors. :man12:
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:44 am

None of the choices seem team related. It's a personal feeling and individual based.

I want the team to begin rebuilding. From my understanding of the CBA I think we will can afford just one max slot going forward and next year we have to replace 8 or 9 players a with multi-year contract players that we will have for 3 years or so.

If its a championship we all want to see then I think the focus on Howard is misplaced largely because he isn't the player that can lead us there. The Center positions importance in today's game is much different than in years past as well. Having a top 2 or 3 wing along with a deep and balanced team is the key..... Not having the top center.... Especially one with some pretty big limitations.

So for the Lakers..... I'm indifferent on Howard's decision. Trading our assets, getting picks and clearing cap will get us closer to where we belong much faster IMHO
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby LTLakerFan on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:50 am

Rooscooter wrote:None of the choices seem team related. It's a personal feeling and individual based.

I want the team to begin rebuilding. From my understanding of the CBA I think we will can afford just one max slot going forward and next year we have to replace 8 or 9 players a with multi-year contract players that we will have for 3 years or so.

If its a championship we all want to see then I think the focus on Howard is misplaced largely because he isn't the player that can lead us there. The Center positions importance in today's game is much different than in years past as well. Having a top 2 or 3 wing along with a deep and balanced team is the key..... Not having the top center.... Especially one with some pretty big limitations.

So for the Lakers..... I'm indifferent on Howard's decision. Trading our assets, getting picks and clearing cap will get us closer to where we belong much faster IMHO


He's really not the right droid? Thought it was just a jedi mind trick. (cue R2's squeaky sounds)
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:02 am

LTLakerFan wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:None of the choices seem team related. It's a personal feeling and individual based.

I want the team to begin rebuilding. From my understanding of the CBA I think we will can afford just one max slot going forward and next year we have to replace 8 or 9 players a with multi-year contract players that we will have for 3 years or so.

If its a championship we all want to see then I think the focus on Howard is misplaced largely because he isn't the player that can lead us there. The Center positions importance in today's game is much different than in years past as well. Having a top 2 or 3 wing along with a deep and balanced team is the key..... Not having the top center.... Especially one with some pretty big limitations.

So for the Lakers..... I'm indifferent on Howard's decision. Trading our assets, getting picks and clearing cap will get us closer to where we belong much faster IMHO


He's really not the right droid? Thought it was just a jedi mind trick. (cue R2's squeaky sounds)


I don't think he's the guy who will do it.... Centers rarely if ever do it alone. We need a Kobe replacement on the wing to be the leader AND the Max slot player. Think of it this way.... In a year Nash may be our only player under contract..... We need a whole team in one off season. If Howard is resigned then we have just one more player and 20 million less to spend on the other slots. One player isn't going to make us a contender.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:04 am

I'd like him to stay - that part I'm clear on. But I have no idea if he will or not. I'll freely admit I'm biased, but I don't see any great reason for him to leave. I don't see Houston as a better destination at all. Not a fan of that city itself, and I don't think that core of guys is winning it all any time soon, even with Dwight. Dallas I could see a little more - they could build around him quickly, they have a good, defensive minded coach, got a star who is willing to share the limelight in Dirk. Much better place to live, IMO, than Houston. I just don't think he's going to be winning championships there either. I still think his best chance to win is here.

However, I do have some concerns about our pitch. D' Antoni's presence and he and Nash giving him the "let's build on last year" speech, plus the total absence of Jeannie Buss and Phil . . . What he wanted - D' Antoni gone or at least Jeannie and Phil more involved in the FO, isn't happening as evidenced by that meeting. Not sure it was the most convincing or reassuring pitch in that regard.

I don't mind Kobe's tough love speech though - that's his personality and leadership style. That isn't going to change and that's part of the road Howard is going to have to put up with and learn from in order to get to the next level here. But that's a big part of why I think he can do it here and not elsewhere, too.

The coaching, however, shouldn't be something he necessarily has to endure, IMO. If D' Antoni had the rings and stature where we were convinced that if we did it his way we'd win, then of course you'd back the coach and the system. But being D' Antoni and given his history, and then last year having to ignore his coaching style just to win games - I can't understand the Lakers' insistence on including this guy in a pitch when it's been stated that he's a real impediment to Dwight signing here.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby LTLakerFan on Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:08 am

I still think Mitch in that early first little meeting with him before before Houston's 3 hours might have clarified the whole coaching situation and how it was going to play out so Dwight doesn't again appear to have killed another one.

Then again maybe not. Maybe Jim really is that pig headed and won't let Mitch make the basketball decisions.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby karacha on Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:35 am

I think most of us want him to stay. Not necessarily because we are all huge fans of Dwight Howard, but because he does make the team better. Especially on the defensive end. It kind of sucks you have to pay the guy max, but in today's league he is a max player who sells tickets and can attract free agents. I will trust Mitch (although I do not trust Jim, and he has to earn the trust of the P&G fans), because he usually has a plan A and a plan B and something good happens most of the time.

So, yes -- I would like Dwight to stay, and I am about ~70% sure he is going to stay after all. And if he doesn't -- then he was not the right guy for us anyway. We'll suck for a year (no need to even tank) but we will be back.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:52 am

karacha wrote:Not necessarily because we are all huge fans of Dwight Howard, but because he does make the team better. Especially on the defensive end. It kind of sucks you have to pay the guy max, but in today's league he is a max player who sells tickets and can attract free agents.


....and you thought we have opposing opinions..... :man1:

He makes us better if he stays.... no doubt. Does his staying make us able to be a legit contender in his 6 years here? The answer to that is complicated and goes back to us trading our firsts.... trading our youth ....and forward to the new CBA and available talent to put around him IF he stays.

It cannot be answered by focusing on just one person and believing that's the start.... when in reality we swung for the fences last year and missed mightily and it will have repercussions for 4 or 5 years to come IMO. Is it better to have a Max slot great center that needs very specific players around him or to have more money going forward? I don't have the answer other than looking at what's available in FA next year it doesn't look like we're rebuilding it all in one year and then it's MLE level players.... which are at best good role players.

It's a mess unfortunately.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby karacha on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:25 am

I honestly don't have an answer either. This is why I will trust Mitch on this one. He's an expert, not me. I hope Dwight will stay, we'll manage to attract another great max player with Dwight's help and, eventually, a young dynamic PG. These guys, with smart role-players who fit with the team will be enough to contend for years to come.

Or we are going to crash and burn. One of those things. But I am not pessimistic in general, and the history is on our side. My only question mark is, as I said before, Jim Buss.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:27 am

My gut says he stays, but everything else makes me feel like he's leaving.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby GNC on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:30 am

I think he is leaving.. but I want him to stay.

Hopefully I am wrong.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:36 am

Rooscooter wrote:
karacha wrote:Not necessarily because we are all huge fans of Dwight Howard, but because he does make the team better. Especially on the defensive end. It kind of sucks you have to pay the guy max, but in today's league he is a max player who sells tickets and can attract free agents.


....and you thought we have opposing opinions..... :man1:

He makes us better if he stays.... no doubt. Does his staying make us able to be a legit contender in his 6 years here? The answer to that is complicated and goes back to us trading our firsts.... trading our youth ....and forward to the new CBA and available talent to put around him IF he stays.

It cannot be answered by focusing on just one person and believing that's the start.... when in reality we swung for the fences last year and missed mightily and it will have repercussions for 4 or 5 years to come IMO. Is it better to have a Max slot great center that needs very specific players around him or to have more money going forward? I don't have the answer other than looking at what's available in FA next year it doesn't look like we're rebuilding it all in one year and then it's MLE level players.... which are at best good role players.

It's a mess unfortunately.


Ideally, the best long term solution is a S&T for Klay and Barnes. We'd be good next season (not title worthy or anything) and then we'd have two young building blocks on rookie deals along with cap space. we'd have 20 million wrapped up in 3 players as opposed to 30 in two (if Dwight stays).
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby jlkr on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:40 am

The 2nd max player has to be a shooter who can score from mid-range to the arc. PG has to have at least mid-range, arc would be nice as well. If you think that sounds like the Orlando formula for getting to the Finals, yes you would be right. It was D12 and a bunch of no-name shooters who could also play team defense, and they got there. This may be why the Golden State pitch to D12 may have been very compelling though GS's chances of an S&T aren't all that good given the Lakers' desire for cap relief should D12 depart.

The lesson: D12 needs shooters around him. MDA already likes shooters anyway, he just didn't have them last season. D12 and MDA just need to come together as to how D12 is going to play with MDA's shooters.

Look at the last Finals: the Spurs packed the paint and dared the Heat to shoot from the perimeter. That worked fantastically well against the Lakers and Memphis, and earned the Spurs 2-1 and 3-2 leads over the Heat. It was only because the Heat shot so well from the perimeter that they were able to come back and take the title. There's a lesson there for the rest of us: that 3pt shooters have now become absolutely essential pieces of a title team. Why do you think Kyle Korver is suddenly able to almost name his own price around the league? Why do you think the Clippers went out and got Redick for Bledsoe? The Lakers have taken a small step toward that with the Ryan Kelly selection
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:42 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
karacha wrote:Not necessarily because we are all huge fans of Dwight Howard, but because he does make the team better. Especially on the defensive end. It kind of sucks you have to pay the guy max, but in today's league he is a max player who sells tickets and can attract free agents.


....and you thought we have opposing opinions..... :man1:

He makes us better if he stays.... no doubt. Does his staying make us able to be a legit contender in his 6 years here? The answer to that is complicated and goes back to us trading our firsts.... trading our youth ....and forward to the new CBA and available talent to put around him IF he stays.

It cannot be answered by focusing on just one person and believing that's the start.... when in reality we swung for the fences last year and missed mightily and it will have repercussions for 4 or 5 years to come IMO. Is it better to have a Max slot great center that needs very specific players around him or to have more money going forward? I don't have the answer other than looking at what's available in FA next year it doesn't look like we're rebuilding it all in one year and then it's MLE level players.... which are at best good role players.

It's a mess unfortunately.


Ideally, the best long term solution is a S&T for Klay and Barnes. We'd be good next season (not title worthy or anything) and then we'd have two young building blocks on rookie deals along with cap space. we'd have 20 million wrapped up in 3 players as opposed to 30 in two (if Dwight stays).


Swap Pau for another young piece and a TE or pick and we're in even better shape.

Maybe they have a plan B.... it's not showing itself and it doesn't look like anyone is lining up at the door to come here either.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby jlkr on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:46 am

GS trading Barnes and Thompson for D12 may be a pipe dream. GS won't want to give both of those guys up, they'd try to stick the Lakers with David Lee along with one of those two. I'd veto that one. Barnes, Thompson and no-bad-contracts-filler for D12, that would be my price for an S&T. Otherwise would rather have the cap space.

Even with an expiring deal, it's hard to see anyone giving up a major young piece for Gasol. Would likely have to wait until the trade deadline before that happens.

Of course no one is lining up here, there's no money to be had in LA this year. One mini-mid and nothing else but vet mins for a team that's not quite in the championship hunt is not all that attractive.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Daloyalfan18 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:58 am

He's out.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby marcelo on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:02 am

I think he's going, but I hope I'm wrong. My gut feeling is that he will fail to see that D'Antoni will go at some point and he would stay. He will fail to see that he could be a part of one of the greatest teams ever put together. I don't think Lebron is going to be in the market (I just can't see him leaving Miami after what could be 4 straight finals), but Carmelo will be available (Knicks future, again, not looking good). Can you imagine Nash-Kobe-Carmelo-?-Howard in 2014? Depending on what Kobe will resign for, maybe a third max player. Damn shame not to see that. Let's hope I'm wrong and he stays in LA.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby 432J on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:09 am

let dwight go to houston so he can have all the fun he wants and do stuff like this with his best friends. seriously this stuff is just downright ridiculous and cringe worthy but in all honesty, that's most likely what dwight prefers over winning

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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:17 am

I've gone back and forth with it, but I think he's gone. He doesn't want to take the risk of being locked into a miserable situation with two people he doesn't really like in LA
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:29 am

jlkr wrote:GS trading Barnes and Thompson for D12 may be a pipe dream. GS won't want to give both of those guys up, they'd try to stick the Lakers with David Lee along with one of those two. I'd veto that one. Barnes, Thompson and no-bad-contracts-filler for D12, that would be my price for an S&T. Otherwise would rather have the cap space.

Even with an expiring deal, it's hard to see anyone giving up a major young piece for Gasol. Would likely have to wait until the trade deadline before that happens.

Of course no one is lining up here, there's no money to be had in LA this year. One mini-mid and nothing else but vet mins for a team that's not quite in the championship hunt is not all that attractive.


I think if the Warriors knew the only way they were getting Dwight is giving up Bogut (big expiring) Klay and Barnes, they do it. I mean, teaming up Curry, Dwight and Lee with some nice role players like Rush and Jack is too much to pass up. The Warrior are in the title chase.
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby 432J on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:34 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
jlkr wrote:GS trading Barnes and Thompson for D12 may be a pipe dream. GS won't want to give both of those guys up, they'd try to stick the Lakers with David Lee along with one of those two. I'd veto that one. Barnes, Thompson and no-bad-contracts-filler for D12, that would be my price for an S&T. Otherwise would rather have the cap space.

Even with an expiring deal, it's hard to see anyone giving up a major young piece for Gasol. Would likely have to wait until the trade deadline before that happens.

Of course no one is lining up here, there's no money to be had in LA this year. One mini-mid and nothing else but vet mins for a team that's not quite in the championship hunt is not all that attractive.


I think if the Warriors knew the only way they were getting Dwight is giving up Bogut (big expiring) Klay and Barnes, they do it. I mean, teaming up Curry, Dwight and Lee with some nice role players like Rush and Jack is too much to pass up. The Warrior are in the title chase.

this

GS will try hard not to include both thompson and barnes but if they really want dwight bad then they will. even if GS offers barnes+rush+bogut for dwight i think the FO needs to pull the trigger on that. but i still think they'll give us both thompson and barnes if it comes down to it. curry+dwight is a deadly duo
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Re: Dwight: Staying or Going?

Postby marcelo on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:42 am

Although Bogut and Biedrins are expiring, the problem is the tax the Lakers would have to pay because on one of these guys. If you don't consider that, of course it would be great. You keep your cap space for 2014 and still get a young piece (the very least, a very movable asset).
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