Earl Clark Discussion: Cavs sign Clark 2 yrs 9 mil (p. 54)

Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby borri on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:35 pm

Chillbongo wrote:^ Not worth it, even for K-Love.

An unhappy star player in a smaller market will not demand that. No way.

We traded Shaq for Caron/LO/Brian Grant. We traded Kwame for Pau. We traded an injured Andrew Bynum and picks for Dwight & Clark. Granted we stole Pau but you see my point. None of those returns are as good as Pau/Hill/Clark.


I'd pull the trigger. A rebuild project starting with D12 and Love. That's a damn great start.

If that's what it'll take, Hill + Clark + Pau, I'll do it. Of course, if it doesn't take all those parts, the better.

Bear in mind, what I am talking about, is in all likelihood, a worst case scenario that it'll take all 3 to get Love and filler. But, I'll still do it. We'd have the best 4 and 5 in the league going forward for the next 4-5 years at least, if they don't both re-sign.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:39 pm

Yeah but what happens after that? :man10:

We've got an aging Nash, Howard, and Love and then after that we've got no youth outside of Meeks and we've got no depth at all.

If that's what it took to get Love, I pass. Gasol by himself should be able to net us a guy like Granger and I'd rather go that route and keep Hill/Clark.

Hill/Clark/Howard is almost as good as Love/Howard and half the cost.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:41 pm

if Love for Pau/Clark or Hill, I take it and run. Clark has been a nice discovery, but I tend to be on the cautious side when it comes to players emerging out of no where during "contract" year.....its has happened countless times now where these type of players come back to earth once they sign a big contract, we should learn by now as we've been a victim ourselves over the year with Walton, Sasha and luckily we avoided that with Ariza.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:42 pm

Pau/Hill/Ebanks for Love, Dwill. :man9:
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:44 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:Pau/Hill/Ebanks for Love, Dwill. :man9:

Oh hell yeah. :man10:

Love/Howard/Clark would be fantastic. Epic.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:49 pm

khmrP wrote:Clark has been a nice discovery, but I tend to be on the cautious side when it comes to players emerging out of no where during "contract" year.....its has happened countless times now where these type of players come back to earth once they sign a big contract

I hear you. It's happened to US countless times, people want to stay in LA. But, I really don't think of Clark that way. Luke was one thing...but we knew about his lack of athleticism and he was highly regarded because of his IQ and Phil was his boy.

Clark straight up, is just a hustler. Baller. I think he really does have the talent...IQ not so much, but he isn't a low IQ player by any means. I think he at the worst, maintains this rate of production. It's our job to keep him humble and hungry too.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:52 pm

khmrP wrote:if Love for Pau/Clark or Hill, I take it and run. Clark has been a nice discovery, but I tend to be on the cautious side when it comes to players emerging out of no where during "contract" year.....its has happened countless times now where these type of players come back to earth once they sign a big contract, we should learn by now as we've been a victim ourselves over the year with Walton, Sasha and luckily we avoided that with Ariza.

While it's true that sometimes players in their contract years can be decieving and their "potential" can be short lived, I think Clark is a keeper.

But on top of that, he's a guy we can use right now to make any deal attached to Gasol seem too good to be true. If we were going to trade him, we could ask for a TON because Clark is easily one of the MIPs of the year, if not THE MIP.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby borri on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:53 pm

therealdeal wrote:Yeah but what happens after that? :man10:

We've got an aging Nash, Howard, and Love and then after that we've got no youth outside of Meeks and we've got no depth at all.

If that's what it took to get Love, I pass. Gasol by himself should be able to net us a guy like Granger and I'd rather go that route and keep Hill/Clark.

Hill/Clark/Howard is almost as good as Love/Howard and half the cost.


Why assume we stop after the trade? We only have two bigs and Mitch won't do anything to get some backups? I am sure if Minny were to ask for that, we'll ask for some bigs in return. Right? What is there to :man10: ...about.

You don't need to assume the worst about people's post and laugh about it to prove a point. I figured that you would know at the very least the LIKELY possibility that we'd get some bigs back from Minny if we were to do that. Mitch isn't an idiot. If we don't, i.e Williams and Love only, Mitch would loook for 4's and 5's as backups. Don't you think?

Sigh....... :man10:
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby Psychobroker on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:54 pm

Why the hell are we talking about TRADING one of the best young pieces on our team? Haven't we made that mistake COUNTLESS times before? :freak2:
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby borri on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:56 pm

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:if Love for Pau/Clark or Hill, I take it and run. Clark has been a nice discovery, but I tend to be on the cautious side when it comes to players emerging out of no where during "contract" year.....its has happened countless times now where these type of players come back to earth once they sign a big contract, we should learn by now as we've been a victim ourselves over the year with Walton, Sasha and luckily we avoided that with Ariza.

While it's true that sometimes players in their contract years can be decieving and their "potential" can be short lived, I think Clark is a keeper.

But on top of that, he's a guy we can use right now to make any deal attached to Gasol seem too good to be true. If we were going to trade him, we could ask for a TON because Clark is easily one of the MIPs of the year, if not THE MIP.


That's one way to look at it. khmrp opinion is also another valid way to look at it. Is it that farfetched that GM's would see Clark as a contract year player and be wary of that?

You are both right.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:56 pm

therealdeal wrote:While it's true that sometimes players in their contract years can be decieving and their "potential" can be short lived, I think Clark is a keeper.


I think quite a lot of you guys said the same thing bout Sasha, how he was a vital signing and we had to do everything we could to bring him back, same thing with Walton and we all know how QUICKLY that came back to bite us.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:57 pm

Psychobroker wrote:Why the hell are we talking about TRADING one of the best young pieces on our team? Haven't we made that mistake COUNTLESS times before? :freak2:


such as? which young pieces have we let go over the years that came back and bite us in the arse?
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby borri on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Psychobroker wrote:Why the hell are we talking about TRADING one of the best young pieces on our team? Haven't we made that mistake COUNTLESS times before? :freak2:


It's clear you stepped in halfway in this conversation. I'll recap.

What if Minny asks for Clark + Pau in return for Love? Would you do it? It's a likely possibility don't you think?
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby TIME on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:17 pm

borri wrote:
What if Minny asks for Clark + Pau in return for Love? Would you do it? It's a likely possibility don't you think?


I would tell them they can have Pau and their pick of anyone not named Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Earl, Jordan. Everyone else is available to package with Pau.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:22 pm

TIME wrote:
borri wrote:
What if Minny asks for Clark + Pau in return for Love? Would you do it? It's a likely possibility don't you think?


I would tell them they can have Pau and their pick of anyone not named Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Earl, Jordan. Everyone else is available to package with Pau.


so basically our left over junk? :man10: Besides if Clark asked for anything north of 5mill/yr, Minn can have him, just send back Dwill/AK and I'll gladly let them have Metta :man1:
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby TIME on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:34 pm

khmrP wrote:
TIME wrote:
borri wrote:
What if Minny asks for Clark + Pau in return for Love? Would you do it? It's a likely possibility don't you think?



I would tell them they can have Pau and their pick of anyone not named Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Earl, Jordan. Everyone else is available to package with Pau.


so basically our left over junk? :man10: Besides if Clark asked for anything north of 5mill/yr, Minn can have him, just send back Dwill/AK and I'll gladly let them have Metta :man1:


I'm not trading Pau PLUS either Hill or Clark unless I get amazing back. If Kwame's expiring was worth Pau, then Pau's expiring is worth Love or something else high value without throwing in our best two young athletic forwards.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:43 pm

well, what is the situation with clark next year. its not like we have restricted free agent or bird rights on him right? he can go as he chooses? it's not like we have the choice to ask clark to be traded to minny right? why would he sign that contract?
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:44 pm

TIME wrote:
khmrP wrote:
TIME wrote:
borri wrote:
What if Minny asks for Clark + Pau in return for Love? Would you do it? It's a likely possibility don't you think?



I would tell them they can have Pau and their pick of anyone not named Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Earl, Jordan. Everyone else is available to package with Pau.


so basically our left over junk? :man10: Besides if Clark asked for anything north of 5mill/yr, Minn can have him, just send back Dwill/AK and I'll gladly let them have Metta :man1:


I'm not trading Pau PLUS either Hill or Clark unless I get amazing back. If Kwame's expiring was worth Pau, then Pau's expiring is worth Love or something else high value without throwing in our best two young athletic forwards.


one trade doesn't dicate the other.........how Pau got trade and his value at the time would be totally different compared to Love if he were to get traded this off-season. I'm not gona say it wont work out like youre sugestting because of Mitch but people still want to use that Kwame/Pau trade as a barameter for future trade aren't being realistic.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby lakersin4 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:46 pm

TIME wrote:
khmrP wrote:
TIME wrote:
borri wrote:
What if Minny asks for Clark + Pau in return for Love? Would you do it? It's a likely possibility don't you think?



I would tell them they can have Pau and their pick of anyone not named Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Earl, Jordan. Everyone else is available to package with Pau.


so basically our left over junk? :man10: Besides if Clark asked for anything north of 5mill/yr, Minn can have him, just send back Dwill/AK and I'll gladly let them have Metta :man1:


I'm not trading Pau PLUS either Hill or Clark unless I get amazing back. If Kwame's expiring was worth Pau, then Pau's expiring is worth Love or something else high value without throwing in our best two young athletic forwards.

Except we also traded Crittenton(who looked promising at the time), rights to Marc Gasol, & 2 1st round picks.. We can't trade another 1st for a while. What else of value to we have to package with Pau's expiring besides Jordan or Earl? I don't like the idea of packaging either of them with Pau for Love, but let's not pretend Pau's expiring alone should get it done.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:46 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:well, what is the situation with clark next year. its not like we have restricted free agent or bird rights on him right? he can go as he chooses? it's not like we have the choice to ask clark to be traded to minny right? why would he sign that contract?


we do have his bird rights he's just unrestricted as well, he could get more with a S&T instead of just signing some other teams offer.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby TIME on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:51 pm

khmrP wrote:
TIME wrote:
khmrP wrote:
TIME wrote:
borri wrote:
What if Minny asks for Clark + Pau in return for Love? Would you do it? It's a likely possibility don't you think?



I would tell them they can have Pau and their pick of anyone not named Dwight, Kobe, Nash, Earl, Jordan. Everyone else is available to package with Pau.


so basically our left over junk? :man10: Besides if Clark asked for anything north of 5mill/yr, Minn can have him, just send back Dwill/AK and I'll gladly let them have Metta :man1:


I'm not trading Pau PLUS either Hill or Clark unless I get amazing back. If Kwame's expiring was worth Pau, then Pau's expiring is worth Love or something else high value without throwing in our best two young athletic forwards.


one trade doesn't dicate the other.........how Pau got trade and his value at the time would be totally different compared to Love if he were to get traded this off-season. I'm not gona say it wont work out like youre sugestting because of Mitch but people still want to use that Kwame/Pau trade as a barameter for future trade aren't being realistic.


So, I'm being unrealistic? Okay.

The point is that Kwame's expiring was 9 million. Pau's is 19 million. Add to its value we are under a new CBA with a looming luxury super tax. 19 million could save some desperate owner a crushing tax hit. Plus Pau can still play and be very productive, and many still consider him to be a top level skilled big in the league unlike Kwame.

I'm not saying it is a slam dunk to get that deal, but I am saying there is no way I add either of those two players to the pot.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:56 pm

TIME wrote:So, I'm being unrealistic? Okay.

The point is that Kwame's expiring was 9 million. Pau's is 19 million. Add to its value we are under a new CBA with a looming luxury super tax. 19 million could save some desperate owner a crushing tax hit. Plus Pau can still play and be very productive, and many still consider him to be a top level skilled big in the league unlike Kwame.

I'm not saying it is a slam dunk to get that deal, but I am saying there is no way I add either of those two players to the pot.


why you make it sound like it was JUST Kwame, there was a whole of bunch of stuff that benefited Mem, only thing that benefit Minn for just Pau is some $19mill expiring for a guy who still in his prime. Its not like Minn is hurting in regards to their cap situation.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:28 pm

We already addressed that Kwame, while a steal for Pau, was a nice expiring contract. Pau is NOT ONLY a great player still, but a $19M expiring contract.19 MILLION DOLLARS. 1/3 of a team's salary cap can be salvaged by trading for Pau...in an era of heavy CBA penalties.

Another thing. While I admit Laker fans were high on Luke and Sasha, there was reason for us to sign them at the time. I agree that still neither of them were as talented or versatile as Clark.

Luke -- b-ball IQ, passing, & Phil's buddy

Sasha -- Shooter, capable perimeter defender (when we had no shooters)

Clark -- excellent man defender at the 1,2,3,4, absolutely fckin awesome rebounder, energy player, scrappy, has a jump shot, can slash, take it to the rim, has a 3 ball, young, athletic.
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:31 pm

khmrP wrote:some $19mill expiring

You are severely underestimating the worth of that.

Maybe Minn isn't in that situation but there are teams that are. Do you really think Memphis traded Gay because they didn't think he was a good player?
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Re: Earl Clark Discussion: career high 16 rebounds

Postby borri on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Chillbongo wrote:
khmrP wrote:some $19mill expiring

You are severely underestimating the worth of that.

Maybe Minn isn't in that situation but there are teams that are. Do you really think Memphis traded Gay because they didn't think he was a good player?


Hey if Minny wants to get rid of Love for Pau and his expiring. Great for us. I won't complain.

Realistically, I'd be surprised if they'd do that unless Love adamantly wants out.

I just can't see Minny wanting just that huge expiring for Love. I'll be ecstatic if I am wrong.

The fact that Ariza has underperformed since he was traded I think would make some GM's hesitate when it comes to Clark. I think you guys are over-evaluating Clark at the moment in terms of league wide perception of him.

I think he's a legit 6th man if he shows more continued consistency from mid range.
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