'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby emplay on Thu May 16, 2013 12:45 pm

Hey all,

I got a chance to read Phil Jackson’s new book “Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success” a little early:

'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2010
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 5519.story

'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson learned how to talk to Metta World Peace
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 7171.story

Phil Jackson's new book focuses a lot on (who else?) Kobe Bryant
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 3049.story

Former Lakers assistant coach Eddie Jordan on the team's challenging season
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 5812.story

Watch: 'Blank on Blank' animated interview with Wilt Chamberlain
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 1495.story

Kobe Bryant posts graphic image of his Achilles' surgery
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow ... 1424.story

Thanks!

Eric
Check me at at www.HOOPSWORLD.com and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Weezy on Thu May 16, 2013 1:05 pm

This is gonna be a good read, that bit on beating the Celtics is great, and surprising that it's his favorite title, thanks emplay.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby boquilla on Thu May 16, 2013 1:32 pm

Phil Jackson throws the book at Kobe Bryant
In a new memoir by the former coach, the Lakers' star comes up short in comparisons with Michael Jordan. But it's not all negative.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketbal ... 3067.story
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Weezy on Thu May 16, 2013 2:09 pm

MJ was great but I think he's glossing over some terrible shooting games with a lot of shots still taken, even in the playoffs, when he says if MJ was off he would look to pass or play D, yeah right. I'm not looking forward to watching ESPN have a field day with these quotes though, more Kobe/MJ comparisons, yay. I also can't see Kobe being thrilled with Phil saying MJ was better than him in every way. Maybe we did do the smart thing not bringing Phil back, if Kobe had read this while Phil is coach, I'm not sure how well it would have gone down between them, really having Phil kinda bash him in a second book.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Cleansed on Thu May 16, 2013 5:37 pm

Weezy wrote:MJ was great but I think he's glossing over some terrible shooting games with a lot of shots still taken, even in the playoffs, when he says if MJ was off he would look to pass or play D, yeah right. I'm not looking forward to watching ESPN have a field day with these quotes though, more Kobe/MJ comparisons, yay. I also can't see Kobe being thrilled with Phil saying MJ was better than him in every way. Maybe we did do the smart thing not bringing Phil back, if Kobe had read this while Phil is coach, I'm not sure how well it would have gone down between them, really having Phil kinda bash him in a second book.


I didn't want Stabber back before and after having read the quotes on Fox's NBA page i don't want him back now. When ppl were screaming for Phils return this season i reluctantly was open to it but my distrust of him caused me not to embrace the idea.

And now this crap.

The guy is a politician through and through and i don't mean that as a compliment.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Weezy on Thu May 16, 2013 6:51 pm

I just don't get why Phil went there again, to sell books? What other player as good as Kobe has been so exposed behind the scenes by his coach, or anyone really? I don't know that we need to see Kobe dissected that much, and I don't know that Kobe will love it either. I understand that this is just what Phil does, but I don't know why Kobe is constantly fair game, or why he takes semi-shots at a guy who got him 5 rings.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu May 16, 2013 7:04 pm

I didn't get that at all from those quotes.

It seemed to me that he was giving Kobe's growth the highest compliments. Kobe can still tweak some things about his game and I think that's entirely a matter of opinion....but Phil didn't slam Kobe in any way, IMHO.

Kobe was immature and he grew up in front of Phil's eyes. I happen to agree with the Zenmaster on nearly all his assessments and I am not seeing any form of back-stabbing or Kobe defamation in any way. But then again, I am pro-Phil, so my take is a bit jaded.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu May 16, 2013 7:38 pm

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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Kasumi on Thu May 16, 2013 8:03 pm

Book pre-ordered.... will reserve judgement until I read it.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Cleansed on Thu May 16, 2013 10:09 pm

Weezy wrote:I just don't get why Phil went there again, to sell books? What other player as good as Kobe has been so exposed behind the scenes by his coach, or anyone really? I don't know that we need to see Kobe dissected that much, and I don't know that Kobe will love it either. I understand that this is just what Phil does, but I don't know why Kobe is constantly fair game, or why he takes semi-shots at a guy who got him 5 rings.


My thoughts as well.

At the very core of primates is a need to compete and define their status within a group. Once one accepts that truth logical deductions as to the motivations behind actions are inevitable. I cant help but to think the issue Stabber has with Kobe is his inability to dominate his will. To impress upon him his vision . Or to BELIEVE that he actually did impress his will upon him. I find this odd as.....


...based upon 85% o what Kobe has said publicly regarding Phil it seems Phil did just that.
. Kobe has stated that his leadership style was influenced by Phil. That he grew up in Phils system. Clearly Phil left an imprint as any "father like" figure would after a decade plus of teaching in a position of authority. So the only reason he would keep going back to the "take semi shots at Kobe well" is if A) Phil is insecure in his relationship with Bryant B) Phil is vindictive , malicious, hyper competitive in his own right and dishonest (i should add i know of no practicing Buddhist who has expressed himself in this way. Perhaps his blend of Buddhism with the teachings allows Phil the mental justification to act in this way. After all..he can say he isnt truly Buddhist when challenged on that) or C) He wanted to sell more books.

If his repugnant actions were "Only" due to the desire to sell more books you really have to ask yourself....how genuine of a relationship could Phil POSSIBLY have with Kobe Bryant or ANY player he has coached ? I don't care how Kobe himself feels about it or what he states publicly. I'm judging Phil on his actions alone. This "tell all" **** is weak (as pro ball players have stated in the past). if you cant give a compliment without qualifications i.e. without it being backhanded then shut your damn mouth.

He better hope that Karma doesnt return in the form of cancer again.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Kasumi on Thu May 16, 2013 10:18 pm

Cleansed wrote:He better hope that Karma doesnt return in the form of cancer again.

Did you really just go there?
:disagree:
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Cleansed on Thu May 16, 2013 10:35 pm

Kasumi wrote:

Cleansed wrote:He better hope that Karma doesnt return in the form of cancer again.



Did you really just go there?
:disagree:




I absolutely did and it will be on the internet for as long as the internet is around for individuals to search and associate with my user handle . I personally was bedside for multiple months caring for a person that was dying (and died ) from cancer. I do not make my comments lightly. What Phil Jackson did was classless , underhanded and despicable and i suspect like most people who achieve great things in the north american capitalist system he has some spiritual issues to work out. So again i state - Phil Jackson better hope that Karma doesnt return in the form of cancer again.. One cant continue to fling poo against the wall without some of it flinging back on them.

Another example:

Jackson even talked about how the sexual-assault charges levied against Bryant in 2003 temporarily changed his outlook on the perennial All-Star. It "cracked open an old wound" because Jackson's daughter was the victim of an assault while on a date with an athlete in college.

"Brooke expected me to get angry and make her feel protected. Instead I suppressed my rage — as I'd been conditioned to do during childhood by my parents … it left her feeling alone and unsupported. (In the end, after filing a report with the police, Brooke chose not to press charges.)

"The Kobe incident triggered all my unprocessed anger and tainted my perception of him. ... It distorted my view of Kobe throughout the 2003-04 season. No matter what I did to extinguish it, the anger kept smoldering in the background."



Biased much? For someone who projects himself as well read and erudite you would think the facts of that case would over ride his emotional bias (i.e. the fact hat his daughter went through something similar). But no...the same American culture that produces other types of bias and ingrains it in individuals regardless of logic seems to pervade this man as well.

I appreciate Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Shaquille, Jerry Buss, West and Worthy despite their flaws and faults. Phil did a lot for the Lakers as a coach but something about that man is spiritually rotten. I would not want him watching my 6 with a gun in his hand. Stabber very much reminds me of what ive read of ancient Roman senators. His success doesn't wash away that feeling of distrust or impression of false sincerity.

Phil Jackson is the scorpion who rides the back of the frog across a river and then stings it causing them both to drown. He stings because its his nature. And thats a rotten destructive nature.

E' Tu Phil?
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu May 16, 2013 10:44 pm

The cancer comment is harsh. Phil has the right to his opinion.

I'll reserve any comments until I read the book, out of respect for Phil.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Cleansed on Thu May 16, 2013 11:14 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:The cancer comment is harsh. Phil has the right to his opinion.

I'll reserve any comments until I read the book, out of respect for Phil.


Cancer the disease is harsh. Ive seen it up close and personal first hand. I touched it. The blood. The inability to stop bleeding. The deterioration of the human body. Been there.

The comment...will be perceived as harsh but people need to held accountable for their intent , actions and words if they dont clarify or retract. They shouldn't be glossed over or swept under the rug. If you make a passive aggressive power play with words and bring the fire you need to be held TO the fire.

Stabber (Phil) wants it to be one way but it's the other way.

Once you strip away the protective candy coating of civilization ...the thin veneer of civilization if you will...people dont pull that passive aggressive crap without recognizing the severity of the potential comeback i.e. bodily harm. There was a time when people who made snarky &&&&& like comments got checked to their face.

But i've already revealed to much :man10: Phil can say whatever he wants. He just shouldn't if he has any class or respect. I'm done :man10:
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby OX1947 on Fri May 17, 2013 12:28 am

I find it hilarious that a player who has won practically every significant individual award, won 5 freakin championships, has a work ethic that is beyond compare, yet he is so hated by everyone that they continue to lower him to Allen Iverson levels. If you all hate Kobe so much (family, Phil, etc) why the hell do you keep riding his tail for your own personal gain? What does that make you then?
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby MC on Fri May 17, 2013 3:18 am

I'm not sure how a few hand picked quips can really show the context of the overall book. Even in this small sample you get the sense that he is reflecting and tying certain things from his other book to help support his current thoughts. Sure seems to me he is talking about growth of a player in Bryant that he's been connected with for most of that players career.

Some of it like Bryant meeting Jordan and suggesting he would kick his butt at one-on-one.... that's a bad thing? ultra competitive guys like those 2? please don't think Jordan wasn't thinking the EXACT same thing lol ...
....... Jordan was pretty open about his opinions on his place within the basketball realm, you didn't have to read it from another person's book to know how Jordan felt like you do with a more closed Bryant in his playing career. Bryant has opened up quite a bit more over the last few years but majority of his career I think he's been a little misunderstood based on his earlier years and his relationship with the media.

I think we should all read the book before jumping on Jackson and suggesting this imaginary karma crap over a few hand picked phrases.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Pig Miller on Fri May 17, 2013 8:21 am

PJ is hands down the most qualified to compare the 2, so his opinion is definitely valued on this topic.

much of what he said has been known (kobe being a bit of a loner especially his early years, his gambling ways on D, etc)

and i don't see anything wrong with how PJ's view of kobe changed after the colorado saga. He even said himself it was 'distorted', implying that it wasn't necessarily fair or correct, but he was also going off of a very personal experience. i don't know that any of us would feel any differently in that situation. in fact, lots of people changed their views on kobe, from the squeaky clean kid without tats to something much different.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby karacha on Fri May 17, 2013 8:27 am

MC wrote:Some of it like Bryant meeting Jordan and suggesting he would kick his butt at one-on-one.... that's a bad thing? ultra competitive guys like those 2? please don't think Jordan wasn't thinking the EXACT same thing lol ...


Well, yes and no. Young Mike would. But old Jordan actually said this to Kobe: "Sure, you probably would kick my butt, but I'm almost 40". I am paraphrasing, of course.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Iceberg Slim on Fri May 17, 2013 10:47 am

It's pretty obvious how Phil Jackson feels about Kobe Bryant. He respects his talent, he respects his work ethic towards his craft, but after 5 championships, and a 13 year relationship as coach-player, he doesn't neccesarily like Kobe Bryant. Let's make no mistakes or excuses (which I feeling from some of these posts imo) about it. Phil is a highly educated man and a genius with words. He's a politician. And he knows how things can be interpreted and misconstrued. This wasn't a post game soundbite cameras caught while he was emotional. This was blueprinted.

So while I agree that he has the most valid opinion on both of these guys and has a right to speak his mind (which are obvious) he wanted to make this blunt and very clear. He didn't mince words. He drew the line between these two men very clearly. One he boasted about and waxed poetic. The other he trashed.

I don't have any issue at all with what he said. Selfishly, I'm elated that I'm given a chance to read such blunt opinions on two great players in which most coaches would cloak their true feelings and dance around the topic. I want the cold hard truth. He provides that. But in terms of loyalty and respect for relationship, Phil seemingly has little for Kobe Bryant, publicly. And to call him a Stabber is not far off. To either sell more books (by being harsh), denounce Bryant and his self absorption, or to impose his will on Kobe (finally) are ill conceived notions to write a book. Either way, I'll be at Barnes & Noble on tuesday to purchase the hardback, just as I was for the Last Season. Luckily, there is a lot more to be gained from the book besides this small snippet.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Kasumi on Fri May 17, 2013 1:11 pm

@kobebryant
The comparisons are #apples2oranges Wonder what the perception would be if M played wit @shaq instead #differentroles #differentcareerpaths

From KB on Twitter today...
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri May 17, 2013 1:34 pm

^That is a point I was going to make too. MJ was always in charge of the Bulls when PJax had him. There was no question at all. Also, MJ went to college and Kobe came out of highschool so the starting levels of "leadership" is going to be greatly different. As Kobe said...different roles and different career paths.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby JGC on Fri May 17, 2013 1:37 pm

From the excerpts I've seen, Phil doesn't really bash Kobe. He just says he thought MJ was better, specifically, from a leadership standpoint. I think there is some truth to that to a degree. Is it really so ludicrous that a person, in this case Phil Jackson, would think MJ was the GOAT? It's not like he said BJ Armstrong was better than Kobe. Me thinks Phil would have had to say Kobe was the best thing since sliced bread for people not to get all up in arms about it.

Plus, the negative stuff he does say, sounds believable especially the ones about Kobe in his younger years. I mean anyone who has followed Kobe's career should see those things and see how it's a possibility Kobe really did say/do those things. People really think Phil is just making all this up?

Regarding the Colorado thing, I did wince a bit hearing that he even brought it up, but I thought he was very honest about it. The excerpts seem to suggest that he didn't like the fact that he felt the way he did, but couldn't help the way he did. I liked the honesty, even if I didn't like the reaction. But he is a father to a daughter who had been a victim before, so I get the sensitivity. I'm a big dog lover and felt disgusted by Vick's actions even before he'd been found guilty. I know, innocent until proven guilty, but, that's just how i felt too.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Weezy on Fri May 17, 2013 1:43 pm

Pretty much expected, you know Kobe is tired of the MJ comparisons, and here they are again brought up by the man who coached them both, saying Kobe is inferior in every way. Aside from that though, what bothers me most is bringing up the Kobe rape allegations thing. Like Kobe doesn't do enough to make people forget that, and move past it, now his old coach brings it up again, to me unnecessarily. I don't need to know that Phil strongly disliked Kobe for it, I really don't, seems like another thing to sell books.

Oh and for the record I'm not with the "I hope Phil doesn't get karma cancer" crowd, I have no idea what that's about, I don't believe people get cancer because of karma. I still like Phil despite not agreeing with things he decided to make public in this book.
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby Weezy on Fri May 17, 2013 1:54 pm

JGC wrote:Me thinks Phil would have had to say Kobe was the best thing since sliced bread for people not to get all up in arms about it.


Oh brother, knew this was coming. Yeah, everyone is really "up in arms" because Phil said MJ was better than Kobe, like everyone doesn't know that already. I'm not up in arms, I just don't see why Phil would want to make it personal and talk about how even MJ's personality was better. Basketball is one thing, but why go there? I don't care if Kobe didn't hang out with security guards and teammates, so what. Again, seems like throwing that stuff in there to sell more books, and I doubt Kobe knew that the majority of his career that his coach was taking notes on him for his books. In fact wasn't that a thing when Phil came back in 05/06, Kobe saying something like "don't put me in your books anymore"? :man10:
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Re: 'Eleven Rings:' Phil Jackson savors beating the Celtics in 2

Postby JGC on Fri May 17, 2013 2:13 pm

Weezy wrote:
JGC wrote:Me thinks Phil would have had to say Kobe was the best thing since sliced bread for people not to get all up in arms about it.


Oh brother, knew this was coming. Yeah, everyone is really "up in arms" because Phil said MJ was better than Kobe, like everyone doesn't know that already. I'm not up in arms, I just don't see why Phil would want to make it personal and talk about how even MJ's personality was better. Basketball is one thing, but why go there? I don't care if Kobe didn't hang out with security guards and teammates, so what. Again, seems like throwing that stuff in there to sell more books, and I doubt Kobe knew that the majority of his career that his coach was taking notes on him for his books. In fact wasn't that a thing when Phil came back in 05/06, Kobe saying something like "don't put me in your books anymore"? :man10:


Well, I didn't say everyone, I said people. I mean you have people saying they hope he doesn't get karma cancer. That could just make 'up in arms' the understatement of the year.

As for why he goes there. Phil makes some comments about leadership, approach, etc and I think all of those anecdotes speak to that. If he was just going to say "MJ was better" then it would be a very short book. If it was just going to be stats, it could just be a one-pager that points people to basketball-reference.com or 82games.com. The whole point is to go beyond the things everyone already knows. Would you have the same reaction if he dove in to personality differences and said Kobe had the better personality over MJ?

And of course he's talking about this stuff to sell books. Cmon. You expect him to talk about things that prevent the selling of the books? That would defeat the purpose! The whole point is to give insight that people already know, thus, making them want to buy the book!
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