A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby TheOp on Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:24 am

When Kobe comes back of course.

The first thing is the 3 point shooting. We havent had a team with capable shooters like this in a long time. Even though they can be inconsistent at times, when they get hot its very difficult to guard. 6th in the league in % and 2nd in made 3's so far this season. This is without a go to offensive player on the perimeter.

The 2nd reason is the emergence of Jordan Hill. Ive started to like this guy more then Dwight. He seems to be the perfect type of teammate for Kobe. He challenges every shot at the rim, and hes always hustling for rebounds. With the attention Kobe draws he could even have an easier time getting offensive rebounds. And he never asks for a single post up play.

The 3rd reason would be Athleticism. Wesley Johnson is a big upgrade at small forward compared to what we have had the last few seasons. He has a dynamic factor that kind of reminds me of what Shannon Brown would provide for those 2 championship runs. And hes a very good defender as well. Farmar also provides some athleticism at the point guard position, which I think is great against some of the tougher guards in the West.

The last reason would be the bench. We have a few guys who are breaking out and becoming solid bench players. I know he throws up some crazy shots sometimes, but for some reason I really like Nick Young. I feel like hes a 6th man type scorer we have needed for a while. And he is someone who can score in one on situations when Kobe is on the bench.

I think this team could kind of resemble the Lebron led Cavaliers team that went to the Finals. The West is much tougher then the East was that year, but I also think we could have a better supporting cast then that team had.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:37 am

Man , it was the Pistons .... who are 2-38 ( even if there are some new players) on the road against the West in their last 40 games .

We still only would be the fifth best team in the West in the best " cocaine is a helluva drug" scenario
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby Savory Griddles on Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:27 am

This is all under the assumption Kobe would help the team. Not only is there the chance he won't ever be healed, but Kobe could actually hurt the chemistry this team has due to his propensity to hold the ball too long.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby khmrP on Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:35 am

OP you forgot to mention the most important aspect of a true contending team, DEFENSE....this team doesn't play it very well and/or very often. Having Kobe back doesn't change that one bit, in fact I'd argue it probably makes the D that much worse since he tends to lack on that side of the game now.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby Savory Griddles on Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:35 pm

khmrP wrote:OP you forgot to mention the most important aspect of a true contending team, DEFENSE....this team doesn't play it very well and/or very often. Having Kobe back doesn't change that one bit, in fact I'd argue it probably makes the D that much worse since he tends to lack on that side of the game now.


Yep. He will be taking minutes away from Xavier and Wesley most likely, who at this point are both much better defenders than Kobe.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby yoki24 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:42 pm

yeah, god forbid he come in and hurt a team that's currently 5-7 and 25th out of 30 in offensive rating. the horror.

last year with bryant: 108.4 ORTG. 7th best in the league

this season: 100.6 ORTG. 25th in league.

oh yeah hes definitely gonna come in and hurt this team.

dat ball movement.

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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby Frank Dux on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:17 pm

I like the positivity, so i'll give you that. But this is a lottery team.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby revgen on Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:57 pm

I agree with khmrP, Savory, and Frank.

The 8th seed in the west is currently a .600 team.

I can understand your positive outlook if we were playing in the leastern conference. Unfortunately, we'll probably have to win 50 games just to earn an 8th seed. That spells lottery.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby TheOp on Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:51 pm

You guys are forgetting though we have not had an easy schedule so far. We are 5-7 and in a few games we were really close to winning.

We currently have had the 2nd toughest schedule in the league so far. 5-7 without Kobe isnt that bad. And we somehow beat the Clippers and the Rockets without Kobe.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby nba2k14 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:53 pm

What you said can be optimistic to the extreme and not really understanding the game of basketball.

The current hot 3pts shooting can attributed to free flowing offense, no expectation, and little pressure on minutes. This led to guys like Blake, Jodi to have a hot shooting night without fear of being taking out of game by Nash and Kobe. They will come back down to earth, though. That's the tough part of being a role player with limited athletic ability in an 82 games season.

Jordan Hill is an "energy" guy. Let put this straight. I am not sure he is even a core championship guy. He fought hard for board, contend every shots, but you know what? Against smart, executiion team, they will use his activeness against him. Get him into foul trouble on pump fake and dare him to execute a play. And we all know Hill doesn't have high basketball IQ. He feeds on energy on play, and not by executing a play which is what "contender" does.

I give you that. Athleticism is vastly improved on the perimeter with the addition of Wesley Johnson, Jordan Farmer, and Henry Xavier. Young legs are what missing last year. But these are the same players you can't rely on in pressure moment, such as in the playoff where defensive execution on switching is very important. They are too inexperience and young to understand this. Young is too weak, Henry has low IQ, and Farmer is solid but still raw in his defensive stance. His tendency to defend behinds screen and that is "no no" against a good PG. Don't bang your money on Farmar stopping the likes of Toni Parker, Russell Westbrook, and Stephen Curry, though.

Same old bench, same [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.]. Like I said, no expectation this season so these guys are playing with nothing to lose. They are all on 1-year contract for a reason. Nick Young is coming from the branch of Washington General. Oops, I mean the Washington Wizards with icon like Agent Pistol. Oops I mean Agent Zero, Gilbert Arenas. Headcase former teammates the like of John Wall, Javaris Crittenton, Javale Mcgee, Andrea Blatche were his influence and you know the dude is bound to be a disaster from a team concept. There is a reason he was a journeyman and even the Clippers don't want him despite his 3pts shooting ability. He doesn't play into the team concept and that [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] ain't fly on a contender.

So all in all, this team is bad, beating an even more god awful team is nothing to brag about.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:30 pm

Anything can happen.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby TheOp on Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:36 pm

I dont buy that Hill isnt a core championship guy. He does everything you want a center to do defensively. Hes quick enough to guard 4's and strong enough to guard 5's. Thats pretty ideal for our situation given Pau's patheticness on defense.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby nba2k14 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:21 am

That is like asking if DeAndre Jordan is a championship core guy and the answer is a no. In my opinion, a core player are guys you want in the 4th quarter in a tight playoff game. Every contender has their "glue" and "trust" five that everyone knows will come through for them. And they execute according to the system and game plan. Jordan Hill doesn't strike me as "that guy" I'm confident putting him to play a tight game. He is just an energy guy and should be brought in from the bench to change pace and bring energy. But since this Lakers team starting front court is so weak right now, he is required to step up and play out of his mind. The season will take a toll on his body and worn him down eventually with the style he plays.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:53 am

I see Jordan Hill as a PF version of Dennis Rodman. Rodman was a core player for the Bulls and Pistons, so I don't see how Hill couldn't be a core player for a team.

I'm just not sure if that's a Mike D'Antoni team though. The Bulls were defensive-minded, and so were the Pistons. We're an offensive-minded team, so Hill is kind of an odd duck on this squad.

Like Sister Golden Hair said in another thread, Hill is a core player on a post-D'Antoni roster. That means if we hire SVG or Hollins to replace D'Antoni, Hill would definitely fit in and be less odd than he is now.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby wallangong on Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:58 am

Jordan's energy has kept us in a lot of tight games. and i don't like the Comparison to DeAndre. I've never been a fan of his game. Hill is no superstar that you build a team around, but I'm confident in the right situation that he could definitely be a "core" guy on a championship team.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby TheOp on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:54 am

Hill has better offensive skills then Deandre. Hes a much better free throw shooter, hes shooting 80 % in his last 5 games. And he can make a shot outside of 5 feet.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:56 am

One of the big reasons our team is bad on the road is because our starters are 2nd or 3rd string players, who historically disappear on the road. They do well at home, but it will take Kobe to will us to wins on the road this year.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby nba2k14 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:54 am

lol Jordan Hill ain't Dennis Rodman. Rodman is one of the smartest pure athlete in basketball. His game IQ is extremely high. It is so high that often time he takes you out of your game with his mental taunting, like what he did to Frank Brickowski. Not to mention, Rodman passing is wayyy superior which fit into any team concept. He is a great outlet passer. He often received the ball at the top of the key to trigger Phil's triangle. Defensively, it's not even debatable . Only area they are similar is they both go after the ball and has a high-motor. The difference is Rodman's use his motor to give his team 2nd chance by rebound, reset the clock and give it back to Jordan/Pippen to run another play. Hill has a tendency to rebound and go back to score, which is great when his shot is falling but on night, it might be detrimental or useless against a smart team. Hill is more close to Faried but with less athleticism than it is to Rodman. Rodman has too high game IQ to be compare with Hill.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:15 am

1) So because Hill doesn't taunt people, he's not a high IQ player? Not a very convincing argument.

2) Rodman was a better passer than Hill. He was also a better ballhandler. Those are guard skills.

I believe I did describe Hill as a PF version of Rodman. So therefore, you shouldn't be comparing guard skills.

3) So Hill should send the ball out to Steve Blake and Jodie Meeks to run another play instead of putting it up himself?

Hill isn't playing with Jordan and Pippen here.

4) Hill is a much better player than Faried. For one, Hill actually blocks and alters shots. Hill also can defend the post against other PF's. Hill has a postup game of his own and utilizes fairly crafty footwork on the block. None of which Faried has.

5) Rodman's IQ was pretty high, but IQ really comes in handy when it comes to decision-making. Specifically, passing. Hill isn't a decision-maker on this team. Neither was Rodman. Hill's IQ is high enough for him to fullfill his role and do it at a high level. Nobody is asking him to be a distributor on this team.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby ShowTime_IR on Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:53 am

No one can know what will happen.
untill now everybody on this team had at leat one great game. but most of them are inconsistent.
if somehow Kobe and the basketball gods make them all play at a high level together, then it's a scary basketball team that can win over any team by 20+ points.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby nba2k14 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:58 am

1. Nope, that was just one example I'm using to showcase Rodman mental game to distract you by daring and taunting you. It is very hard to describe his brilliant mind game. It is particularly effective against other team hothead because they would go one-on-one with him, resulting in disrupting opposing team offensive scheme and flow. It is something that Rodman was very good at. He draws charging foul like Shane Battier by putting his body at the right place rather than risk fouling by contesting "incontestable shot" which will get Hill into foul trouble against smart team. He is just a smart player who understand his limitation and understand the team game plan, scheme, and execution. He is a master and a guy you can rely on to bring it without affecting any player rhymes and ego because he doesn't need shot. Hill is similar in some extend but less effective.

2. Same wise, I'm talking his PF career with the Bulls. His early career with the Piston, he was a more well-around defender at various position. Whether it's Bulls' Rodman or Pistons' Rodman, both are superior athlete and passer than Hill. It's not debatable as I said.

3. Hill does this even with Kobe. So it's irrelevant if Kobe is out or not. It is a tendency in his game to showcase his offensive game. Like I said, certain night it will be good and certain night, it will be detrimental to the team. He takes ill-advised post shot that I have to cringe sometime.

4. I don't know about that. Faried plays starter minute for a full season, something Hill has to prove first without breaking down. He obviously has an advantage in height but both blocking around the same amount, which is not much at all. Both guys aren't really good at postup game although Hill is slightly better just by being taller. They are put-back kind of guys. Faried run the break and finish better because he is quicker and more athletic. Judgement is still out there for who is better. I will wait to see how Hill plays a full season with good minutes before I make any judgement.

5. That's wrong. Having high game-IQ is a positive reflection of their digestion on the game regardless if you are a decision-maker or not. Basketball is a team game and the more players on the floor who understand the game, the team will executive better resulting in better possession every time. Increase offensive and defensive efficiency are very important against the good team. Hill's basketball IQ is rather low to be a starter on a contender.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:44 pm

1) Taunting has nothing to do with IQ on the basketball court. In fact has nothing to do with basketball at all. Not only that, it's illegal in today's game and will only bring a technical to Hill and a FT for the player who is being taunted. That's not smart. I'm not sure why you're even trying to argue this.

Charge/Block is one of the most difficult calls for referees to make. Engaging in trying to draw a charge as opposed to going for the shotblock/contest doesn't make a player smarter or indicate a higher basketball IQ. If anything you're gambling that the refs won't call a block against you. Since defenders that attempt to draw charges aren't contesting the shot, a block call can often turn into an and-1 opportunity. Hill's choice to contest/block is a more conservative approach, since if he picks up the foul, he's less likely to allow the and-1. Rodman is/was more of a gambler than Hill. That's his choice. It doesn't make him a smarter player than Hill.

2) Rodman was a SF/PF in the triangle offense with Chicago. The PF in our system doesn't distribute the ball, so your whole "passing" argument falls flat. We don't play in the triangle. Rodman was a superior physical specimen, I'll give you that.

3) Hill came off the bench last season and the season before that. He only started 9 games for us total before this season. If he was "doing it with Kobe" as you claim, it certainly wasn't for long periods. Most of the time, the people on the court with him were the likes of Blake, Goudelock, and Meeks. Once again, your argument falls flat.

4) Judging by the fact that you're mostly wrong about Hill as a shotblocker, Hill's IQ, Hill's superior postgame, and Faried's so-called superior athleticism, I don't really care about what judgement you make in the future. You're wasting my time and yours.

5) No. It's not wrong. Hill's IQ is high enough to perform his role to highest level. Nobody's asking him to be Steve Nash. Ditto with Rodman during his time with the Pistons and Bulls.

You obviously love Rodman, and can't stand the idea of another player being compared to him. Fine. I don't intend to change your mind. But your arguments against Hill as a person who could potentially play a Rodman-like role on a championship team fall flat.
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby halekulani on Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:21 pm

lakers will be a contender if a meteor hits the stadium during the all-star game
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:44 pm

I am not sure we will be "contenders" but anything is possible. I do believe we can beat anyone in a series if, and only if, we play our butts off. THis team can be a top 4 team in the West but they can also be a lottery team depending on how the bench plays. I'll support the optimism. :jam2:
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Re: A few reasons why I think this team could be a contender...

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:05 pm

nba2k14 wrote:........So all in all, this team is bad, beating an even more god awful team is nothing to brag about.


I don't think anyone on here seriously thinks "contender" meant contending for a championship, I think it meant PLAYOFF contender. BIG difference. You were even more unrealistically pessimistic than the original poster (in the event that the OP really meant that this team can compete for a ring this year) was optimistic if you think the Lakers are a god awful team.

With Kobe out, and Antoni flailing, we are 5-7...with Kobe back and (eventually) near 100% (again IF, and depending on when, that happens) we are WAY better than god awful. We are NOT a top bracket team without said meteor, but we could honestly get as high as the 6th, or even 5th, seed if Kobe gets up to full speed before the new year and everyone else just settles into roughly where they are now.

The main reason we are 5-7 (in mostly close games, even against good teams) is because we are too free flowing to the point of an identity-less chaotic mess. Kobe establishes a set style and a pecking order...a championship proven formula for how to play. We may not have a championship roster (OK, definitely not) but that doesn't mean we can't be slightly above the Grizzlies, Mavericks and Nuggets type teams if we stay healthy and get on a roll.

The west is actually going to be more open this year on the bottom half of the bracket, so I'm not going to make any excuses for the Lakers. Of course this is all predicated on Kobe actually resembling himself again within the next 10-20 games (if ever is also a possibility) but let's not ASSUME Kobe will stink, or that this team can't be consistently smart and execute. The skills are there, they just need to stay healthy and put them together.
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