First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Tue May 28, 2013 1:41 pm

therealdeal wrote:^ It's not a "team option" it's just not fully guaranteed (partially guaranteed for 4 million).

That trade ruins our chances of getting a max player though in 2014. No dice unless Howard bolts.


Kobe cap hold kills its regardless unless you renounce his rights if Howards is still here
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakersin4 on Tue May 28, 2013 9:35 pm

You know there are a ton of great FA's in 15/16 also.. I think 1 way we could get good value for Pau is taking on contracts that would make us delay having cap space for a season.. One such deal I came up with involves taking on Amare, which I'm sure noone is a fan of.

Pau, Blake, MWP for Amare, Novak, Shumpert.

Makes sense for NY because they get a real #2 that will work next to Melo. They lose some depth but they need a good backup PG since Kidd is done. MWP would probably welcome a return home & they could use him after losing Shump/Novak. They'd be getting 25M in expiring contracts.

I still think it makes sense for us despite Amare. Shump & Novak are exactly the type of roleplayers we need. We need shooters & athletic defenders. +1 in both departments. With Hill coming back we can afford to take the gamble on Amare, but if he actually plays he should play as well here as he's capable of with D'antoni & Nash. The reason I prefer a move like this over keeping our expiring contracts is because it keeps us more competitive until we have that shot at a big free agent. I don't want to go through a throwaway season & then have all of our hopes hinging on free agency.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Tue May 28, 2013 9:54 pm

^^^NY couldn't give Amare away and you want to give them 3 expiring deals only to be compensated by Shumpert? He's not that good nor is he worth that commitment in Amare. I use to like Novak until I saw how easily it was to shut him down during the playoffs
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakersin4 on Wed May 29, 2013 1:04 am

khmrP wrote:^^^NY couldn't give Amare away and you want to give them 3 expiring deals only to be compensated by Shumpert? He's not that good nor is he worth that commitment in Amare. I use to like Novak until I saw how easily it was to shut him down during the playoffs


I disagree that Shump isn't that good.. He's young, a very good defender & isn't a liability on offense.. I'd agree on Novak he's missed a lot of games in his career but he's given the Knicks nearly two 3's a game for the last 2 seasons. If he manages to stay healthy he should thrive under D'antoni. He isn't our savior at the SF position but he should be able to give us a solid 20 mpg & hit some big shots. Probably not worth gambling on him staying healthy with 3 years left on his contract.

That said, I'm not really attached to that deal I was just throwing it out as an example.. Giving up that package of expiring deals & taking on an extra year could net us good value for Pau while not screwing things up too bad long term. We need to find teams with contracts ending 15/16 that want space in 14/15 & will give up value to get it.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Wed May 29, 2013 7:41 am

^^^IF you want to go that route, here's my suggestion

Boozer,Hinrich, 2013 1st, Mirotic,
for
Pau, Duhon

We get 2 prospect type in that late 1st from Chi in addition to whoever this Mirotic guy is, bulls fans are all over this guy and making it seem like he's the next greatest euro ever. I dont fall for euro hype but its an assest obviously and we all know how Marc turned out, if this Mirotic guy is anything half way decent its a fair return. Boozer plays as much D as Amare which is to say none but he shows he's a bit more durable and he seems to prefer shooting jumpers anyways. Hinrich would be a fine backup and we could either package him with MWP or trade Blake away as well. Chi at worse is moving sideways cause even with Pau's decline he still put up comparable #'s to Boozer and with a stud PG like Rose and a big like Noah who wont occupy the post, Pau could see a resurgence in Chi. They also clearup 20+mill to chase a big name FA in 2014 as Deng will also expire then.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby Damian Necronamous on Wed May 29, 2013 10:04 am

Pau Gasol and Chris Duhon for Andrei Kirilenko, Luke Ridnour and the #9 pick

That could happen...
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby karacha on Wed May 29, 2013 11:48 am

khmrP wrote:^^^IF you want to go that route, here's my suggestion

Boozer,Hinrich, 2013 1st, Mirotic,
for
Pau, Duhon

We get 2 prospect type in that late 1st from Chi in addition to whoever this Mirotic guy is, bulls fans are all over this guy and making it seem like he's the next greatest euro ever.


Well, he's not the best ever, but he is decent. Mirotic is from Montenegro, just like Pekovic. a 6-10 PF who can shoot. IIRC, he shoots over 40% for 3 and over 90% from the line.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 8:53 am

3 parts
Pau
for
TPE, Atl. 17th or 18th whichever doesn't matter to me

TPE
for
Granger

Duhon/Cash
for Gerald Green/23rd pick

who says NO? I know TDRL doesn't like Green but its a price you pay for getting that other pick and Granger. 2 Picks, while no lotto picks still adds "youth" that we'll need or package em for a higher pick for player you need/want. Atl does it if/when they miss out on all the big name FA this year, preserves their cap for 2014 and Pau is better than any one they'll get at 17th or 18th. Indy does it to clear up nearly 18mill in cap, depending on how they deal with their current roster they could clear up enough for a lower end max guy in addition to bringing West back at a reasonable rate and not fear going into luxury tax.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 9:03 am

For Pau I don't think the Lakers will look for a late first rounder. As much as we bash on the guy, he's still the most gifted offensive Center in the league. He proved that when relied upon heavily he can perform in the regular season. How many other big men are getting Triple-Doubles?

If the Lakers trade Pau I think they're looking for a home run, plain and simple. That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

And since they're looking for home runs like that, I don't think you see Pau get traded for anything less than a top 10 pick. And the Lakers are RIGHT to do that. If we're trading away one of the best offensive bigs in the game today, why do it for a marginal first round pick? We're tight with long term money as it is, we aren't likely to take on guaranteed contracts for guys who aren't likely to be stars.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 9:15 am

therealdeal wrote:For Pau I don't think the Lakers will look for a late first rounder. As much as we bash on the guy, he's still the most gifted offensive Center in the league. He proved that when relied upon heavily he can perform in the regular season. How many other big men are getting Triple-Doubles?

If the Lakers trade Pau I think they're looking for a home run, plain and simple. That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

And since they're looking for home runs like that, I don't think you see Pau get traded for anything less than a top 10 pick. And the Lakers are RIGHT to do that. If we're trading away one of the best offensive bigs in the game today, why do it for a marginal first round pick? We're tight with long term money as it is, we aren't likely to take on guaranteed contracts for guys who aren't likely to be stars.


there's expectations and then there's being realistic. Being realistic, nobody will give you a young star player in his prime for a 32yr old thats going to expire.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu May 30, 2013 9:44 am

^ Being realistic means Kwame for Gasol.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 9:46 am

khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:For Pau I don't think the Lakers will look for a late first rounder. As much as we bash on the guy, he's still the most gifted offensive Center in the league. He proved that when relied upon heavily he can perform in the regular season. How many other big men are getting Triple-Doubles?

If the Lakers trade Pau I think they're looking for a home run, plain and simple. That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

And since they're looking for home runs like that, I don't think you see Pau get traded for anything less than a top 10 pick. And the Lakers are RIGHT to do that. If we're trading away one of the best offensive bigs in the game today, why do it for a marginal first round pick? We're tight with long term money as it is, we aren't likely to take on guaranteed contracts for guys who aren't likely to be stars.


there's expectations and then there's being realistic. Being realistic, nobody will give you a young star player in his prime for a 32yr old thats going to expire.

Who's asking for a young star in their prime? I'm not saying the Lakers are calling and demanding that trade, but they aren't going to risk their cap space for anything less than that. And they're right not to. Being realistic also means being smart about your assets.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 10:17 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:For Pau I don't think the Lakers will look for a late first rounder. As much as we bash on the guy, he's still the most gifted offensive Center in the league. He proved that when relied upon heavily he can perform in the regular season. How many other big men are getting Triple-Doubles?

If the Lakers trade Pau I think they're looking for a home run, plain and simple. That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

And since they're looking for home runs like that, I don't think you see Pau get traded for anything less than a top 10 pick. And the Lakers are RIGHT to do that. If we're trading away one of the best offensive bigs in the game today, why do it for a marginal first round pick? We're tight with long term money as it is, we aren't likely to take on guaranteed contracts for guys who aren't likely to be stars.


there's expectations and then there's being realistic. Being realistic, nobody will give you a young star player in his prime for a 32yr old thats going to expire.

Who's asking for a young star in their prime? I'm not saying the Lakers are calling and demanding that trade, but they aren't going to risk their cap space for anything less than that. And they're right not to. Being realistic also means being smart about your assets.


That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

these guys look like YOUNG stars in their prime to me.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 10:19 am

lakerfan2 wrote:^ Being realistic means Kwame for Gasol.


still living off one trade, and at its simplist form....so where's the picks, where's the Marc Gasol prospect coming from this time?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby abeer3 on Thu May 30, 2013 11:00 am

yeah, that was expiring contracts (including an instant expirer) plus a future 1st (or two), plus crittenton (who, remember, looked pretty good at the time), plus the rights to marc gasol (who was the spanish league mvp at the time).

i'd be glad to get that for pau this time around.

i agree that it's not worth trading him if the pick isn't high (top 10, but preferably top 6 or 7). the higher pick, the more likely i am to take on a little salary in return.

but no way do i dump pau just to save cash. there better be a player or two coming back in addition to some tax relief.

if not, i take kobe's advice and roll with pau. if he's right again next year, teams will come calling at the deadline with big offers, imo.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby Center Court on Thu May 30, 2013 11:01 am

khmrP wrote:^^^IF you want to go that route, here's my suggestion

Boozer,Hinrich, 2013 1st, Mirotic,
for
Pau, Duhon

We get 2 prospect type in that late 1st from Chi in addition to whoever this Mirotic guy is, bulls fans are all over this guy and making it seem like he's the next greatest euro ever. I dont fall for euro hype but its an assest obviously and we all know how Marc turned out, if this Mirotic guy is anything half way decent its a fair return. Boozer plays as much D as Amare which is to say none but he shows he's a bit more durable and he seems to prefer shooting jumpers anyways. Hinrich would be a fine backup and we could either package him with MWP or trade Blake away as well. Chi at worse is moving sideways cause even with Pau's decline he still put up comparable #'s to Boozer and with a stud PG like Rose and a big like Noah who wont occupy the post, Pau could see a resurgence in Chi. They also clearup 20+mill to chase a big name FA in 2014 as Deng will also expire then.


Chicago seems to really value Mirotic. Many feel if he were drafted this year, he'd go number 1. Not sure they'd just throw him in like that.

My take is they want Noah/Gibson/Deng/Butler/Rose going forward. Deng may be expendable for the right trade.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby abeer3 on Thu May 30, 2013 11:12 am

btw, when i thought of the pau/kwame deal above, the first prospect that came to mind to equate with marc gasol was mirotic.

if the lakers could get the rights to mirotic, a first rounder, and a guy selected in the first round last year who had shown flashes, plus full salary relief, that would be pretty sweet.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 11:15 am

khmrP wrote:
That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

these guys look like YOUNG stars in their prime to me.

Did I say anyone was asking for that? Did I say that I, Mitch, Jim, or any other reasonable person was ASKING for that?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby Chillbongo on Thu May 30, 2013 11:20 am

Do the Lakers have an opportunity to see Pau in a basketball setting before training camp?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu May 30, 2013 11:25 am

khmrP wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:^ Being realistic means Kwame for Gasol.


still living off one trade, and at its simplist form....so where's the picks, where's the Marc Gasol prospect coming from this time?


a third team. :man1:
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 11:59 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

these guys look like YOUNG stars in their prime to me.

Did I say anyone was asking for that? Did I say that I, Mitch, Jim, or any other reasonable person was ASKING for that?


umm, so what exactly are you saying? cause thats what you posted....so who exactly is respresented here when you say "they" expected then?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 12:03 pm

Center Court wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^IF you want to go that route, here's my suggestion

Boozer,Hinrich, 2013 1st, Mirotic,
for
Pau, Duhon

We get 2 prospect type in that late 1st from Chi in addition to whoever this Mirotic guy is, bulls fans are all over this guy and making it seem like he's the next greatest euro ever. I dont fall for euro hype but its an assest obviously and we all know how Marc turned out, if this Mirotic guy is anything half way decent its a fair return. Boozer plays as much D as Amare which is to say none but he shows he's a bit more durable and he seems to prefer shooting jumpers anyways. Hinrich would be a fine backup and we could either package him with MWP or trade Blake away as well. Chi at worse is moving sideways cause even with Pau's decline he still put up comparable #'s to Boozer and with a stud PG like Rose and a big like Noah who wont occupy the post, Pau could see a resurgence in Chi. They also clearup 20+mill to chase a big name FA in 2014 as Deng will also expire then.


Chicago seems to really value Mirotic. Many feel if he were drafted this year, he'd go number 1. Not sure they'd just throw him in like that.

My take is they want Noah/Gibson/Deng/Butler/Rose going forward. Deng may be expendable for the right trade.

thats Chi fans, they seem to thing Deng is worth the #1 pick too this year.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 12:48 pm

khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

these guys look like YOUNG stars in their prime to me.

Did I say anyone was asking for that? Did I say that I, Mitch, Jim, or any other reasonable person was ASKING for that?


umm, so what exactly are you saying? cause thats what you posted....so who exactly is respresented here when you say "they" expected then?

My post wasn't confusing. You're confused because you made assumptions.

I am saying the Lakers aren't going to trade Pau for anything less than a young up-and-coming star or a top 10 pick. I didn't say they were actively asking for that. The point is that your scenario where we take on two long term contracts for players who are mid-to-late first round picks and a TPE will not happen. We will not take back so little for Pau Gasol.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 12:56 pm

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
That means a young guy that is already established as a budding star and still has room to grow. That might mean Rondo, Love, etc.

these guys look like YOUNG stars in their prime to me.

Did I say anyone was asking for that? Did I say that I, Mitch, Jim, or any other reasonable person was ASKING for that?


umm, so what exactly are you saying? cause thats what you posted....so who exactly is respresented here when you say "they" expected then?

My post wasn't confusing. You're confused because you made assumptions.

I am saying the Lakers aren't going to trade Pau for anything less than a young up-and-coming star or a top 10 pick. I didn't say they were actively asking for that. The point is that your scenario where we take on two long term contracts for players who are mid-to-late first round picks and a TPE will not happen. We will not take back so little for Pau Gasol.

yea and lets ignore Granger and left over TPE to boot. Letting Pau expire would be even more dumb cause I dont see anyone lining up to trade their YOUNG star player for a guy on wrong side of 30 showing big time signs of slowing down not to mention 20mill dollar salary and there's NOBODY thats picking in the top 10 that wants or needs Pau, those guys are in the 10 guy cause they suck and are more then just 1 old guy away from being good.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 1:44 pm

Your argument is awful.

1. You made the trade with the assumption that the Pacers simply want to unload Granger, an expiring contract, for no reason? They want nothing in return for him? This from a team who is perhaps steps from the Finals and could use this asset to improve their team? What happens if the Pacers don't accept that TPE for Granger? Then we're stuck with a trade of Gasol for a TPE and one or two mid-to-late first rounders? The whole point of a TPE being attractive is that it is a way for teams to unload unwanted contracts, usually lengthy ones.

2. Letting Pau expire means exactly what the Lakers have been planning all along: cap space. There's nothing dumb about that when we are talking about the Los Angeles Lakers enjoying a ton of cap availability. It's better than trading Pau away for literally nothing but a couple of extremely average draft choices. That's one of the worst trades I've ever read involving Gasol.

3. I understand the roster needs of the teams in the top 10. That doesn't change my position.
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