First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 2:04 pm

Indy clears up enough cap to sign their own near max FA lvl player and resign West w/o having to go into Luxury tax lvl>>>>>>>>>>>>than Granger/Green....TRDL you making "awful" statements of trades in only looking at the trade at its core same way HATERS look at the Pau/Kwame trade and how much we rob Mem. In fact considering Clipps want West to come to them due to Cp3, who's to say Indy couldn't attract Paul to Indy with a core of Hibbert/George/West?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby JGC on Thu May 30, 2013 2:16 pm

I still don't understand why people think it is such a problem to let Pau expire. That's actually, in our case, a good backup plan.

The only player he'd be moved for is a player we would otherwise sign as an FA in 2014 anyway.

Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 2:22 pm

JGC wrote:I still don't understand why people think it is such a problem to let Pau expire. That's actually, in our case, a good backup plan.

The only player he'd be moved for is a player we would otherwise sign as an FA in 2014 anyway.

Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.


and yet rarely do I see anyone acknolwedge the fact that IF Howard was still here inorder to get that MAX guy, we'd have to resounce Kobe's rights 1st. Its not merely just letting Pau expire, I'm not exactly sure of the cap hold amt but from what I've seen on realgm his entire salary from the last year would count against the cap if his birds rights are not renounced.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 2:25 pm

khmrP wrote:Indy clears up enough cap to sign their own near max FA lvl player and resign West w/o having to go into Luxury tax lvl>>>>>>>>>>>>than Granger/Green....TRDL you making "awful" statements of trades in only looking at the trade at its core same way HATERS look at the Pau/Kwame trade and how much we rob Mem. In fact considering Clipps want West to come to them due to Cp3, who's to say Indy couldn't attract Paul to Indy with a core of Hibbert/George/West?

Who are you expecting them to sign that would be better than Granger? And of those two who do you expect to take a fairly large pay cut? If they tried to sign Paul, they wouldn't be able to give West much money.

The trade only makes sense if everything breaks JUST the right way. Who's to say all of those things happen? These trades don't all happen simultaneously.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 2:31 pm

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:Indy clears up enough cap to sign their own near max FA lvl player and resign West w/o having to go into Luxury tax lvl>>>>>>>>>>>>than Granger/Green....TRDL you making "awful" statements of trades in only looking at the trade at its core same way HATERS look at the Pau/Kwame trade and how much we rob Mem. In fact considering Clipps want West to come to them due to Cp3, who's to say Indy couldn't attract Paul to Indy with a core of Hibbert/George/West?

Who are you expecting them to sign that would be better than Granger? And of those two who do you expect to take a fairly large pay cut? If they tried to sign Paul, they wouldn't be able to give West much money.

The trade only makes sense if everything breaks JUST the right way. Who's to say all of those things happen? These trades don't all happen simultaneously.


I swear you argue just to argue, as it stands w/o West in the mix Indy is @ 48mill in committed salary....remove Granger/Green takes it down to 30-31 mill, they have a pick that could add to it but even then its not gona kill their cap situation. Cp3 1st year max is ~19mill to no bird rights team so brings it to about 49-50ish...West makes $10mill/yr now I dont forsee him expecting that type of salary again so anythign between 7-8 for 3 yrs or so would get it done. The only two of somewhat minor losses are Hansborough and Stephenson...Hansborough is of no importance with Mahini around, if they wish to bring back Stephenson at a much more higher salary then just sacrifice Hill, he wouldn't be needed as much with Cp3 on board.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 2:58 pm

khmrP wrote:I swear you argue just to argue

Coming from you, that's pretty hilarious.
khmrP wrote:as it stands w/o West in the mix Indy is @ 48mill in committed salary
According to http://storytellerscontracts.com/ Their starting dollar amount next season is 50,036,927 dollars without West.
khmrP wrote:remove Granger/Green takes it down to 30-31 mill, they have a pick that could add to it but even then its not gona kill their cap situation.

Again. You are assuming they jump at the deal instead of just approaching it from a standpoint of neutrality. But given your scenario, their dollar amount runs to 39,515,139 dollars.
khmrP wrote:Cp3 1st year max is ~19mill to no bird rights team so brings it to about 49-50ish
At about 19 million, the new number is 58,515,139 dollars. That of course means you can't sign him for the max he is due AND you can't guarantee him that 4th year.

AND you are assuming that Paul loves David West so much he's willing to leave LA for him.

khmrP wrote:West makes $10mill/yr now I dont forsee him expecting that type of salary again so anythign between 7-8 for 3 yrs or so would get it done.
Once passing the cap threshold you can only offer him the MLE. That's less than 7-8 million now under the new CBA.

khmrP wrote:The only two of somewhat minor losses are Hansborough and Stephenson...Hansborough is of no importance with Mahini around, if they wish to bring back Stephenson at a much more higher salary then just sacrifice Hill, he wouldn't be needed as much with Cp3 on board.
This is all pretty much off the top of your head, but let's delve a little...

Hansborough is expiring but he's likely to return. They like him in Indiana and he's a good locker room guy. Stephenson is still under contract for next season. "Sacrifice Hill"? I don't know what that means, but there's not going to be a ton of people jumping to just take on a contract of 8 million per year for 5 years, which can also be stated as a 40 million dollar contract. How many people are jumping at that trade?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 3:03 pm

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:I swear you argue just to argue

Coming from you, that's pretty hilarious.
khmrP wrote:as it stands w/o West in the mix Indy is @ 48mill in committed salary
According to http://storytellerscontracts.com/ Their starting dollar amount next season is 50,036,927 dollars without West.
khmrP wrote:remove Granger/Green takes it down to 30-31 mill, they have a pick that could add to it but even then its not gona kill their cap situation.

Again. You are assuming they jump at the deal instead of just approaching it from a standpoint of neutrality. But given your scenario, their dollar amount runs to 39,515,139 dollars.
khmrP wrote:Cp3 1st year max is ~19mill to no bird rights team so brings it to about 49-50ish
At about 19 million, the new number is 58,515,139 dollars. That of course means you can't sign him for the m+19
.
ax he is due AND you can't guarantee him that 4th year.

AND you are assuming that Paul loves David West so much he's willing to leave LA for him.

khmrP wrote:West makes $10mill/yr now I dont forsee him expecting that type of salary again so anythign between 7-8 for 3 yrs or so would get it done.
Once passing the cap threshold you can only offer him the MLE. That's less than 7-8 million now under the new CBA.

khmrP wrote:The only two of somewhat minor losses are Hansborough and Stephenson...Hansborough is of no importance with Mahini around, if they wish to bring back Stephenson at a much more higher salary then just sacrifice Hill, he wouldn't be needed as much with Cp3 on board.
This is all pretty much off the top of your head, but let's delve a little...

Hansborough is expiring but he's likely to return. They like him in Indiana and he's a good locker room guy. Stephenson is still under contract for next season. "Sacrifice Hill"? I don't know what that means, but there's not going to be a ton of people jumping to just take on a contract of 8 million per year for 5 years, which can also be stated as a 40 million dollar contract. How many people are jumping at that trade?


how do you get 39 after Paul signing even if those players are retained? At 50mill minus Granger/Green who takes off around 17.5 off that 50 its gets to 33, 33+19=52 ish. Even at 52 there's still room to give west 8mill at the min. and if Hansborough was of any use or importance Indy wouldn't have given Mahini that type of money or that type of length.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 3:15 pm

Sorry, crappy calculator at work.

52 million after Paul though leaves no room for another contract below the cap. The cap is at somewhere between 50-55 this summer and you cannot exceed the cap when you get below it, even for re-signees. You'd be forced to give West the MLE or whatever the remainder is before the cap.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Thu May 30, 2013 3:17 pm

therealdeal wrote:Sorry, crappy calculator at work.

52 million after Paul though leaves no room for another contract below the cap. The cap is at somewhere between 50-55 this summer and you cannot exceed the cap when you get below it, even for re-signees. You'd be forced to give West the MLE or whatever the remainder is before the cap.


the cap is at 58, could jump to 60. and again 7mill isn't to far off from 10 mill considering West age, 3 yrs 21mill is a fair deal. As you stated, its a risk but a risk worth taking. Worse case scenario you have cap room that could absorb someone good and or more future assests under this CBA, cap space is gold. They managed to get to the ECF without Granger, lossing himf or future assests wouldn't be much of a deterent if Cp3 was a possibility.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Thu May 30, 2013 4:53 pm

It's set at 58 for 2013 from what I've just read. That'd mean a 6 million dollar contract for West. Before the threshold. That's a 4 million dollar paycut. That's pretty hefty for anybody. Especially since he's the soul of that team and has helped them reach the conference finals.

Your scenario is too presumptuous.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu May 30, 2013 5:06 pm

I do like West though... and Zack Randolph.

Hey maybe we can trade Pau to Memphis for Zack
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby JGC on Thu May 30, 2013 6:51 pm

khmrP wrote:
JGC wrote:I still don't understand why people think it is such a problem to let Pau expire. That's actually, in our case, a good backup plan.

The only player he'd be moved for is a player we would otherwise sign as an FA in 2014 anyway.

Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.


and yet rarely do I see anyone acknolwedge the fact that IF Howard was still here inorder to get that MAX guy, we'd have to resounce Kobe's rights 1st. Its not merely just letting Pau expire, I'm not exactly sure of the cap hold amt but from what I've seen on realgm his entire salary from the last year would count against the cap if his birds rights are not renounced.


Ok, I can't really say I fully understand how Bird rights impacts the picture. I thought the only reason we would NOT renounce Kobe's bird rights, is if we wanted to give him a max deal (one that other teams could not equally offer). I don't think we'd want to give Kobe a max deal.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby LAKEROC on Thu May 30, 2013 6:52 pm

^ Did you not see Zach Randolph in the playoffs against San Antonio? The guy went AWOL more than Steve McQueen in the Great Escape
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakersin4 on Thu May 30, 2013 7:59 pm

JGC wrote:
khmrP wrote:
JGC wrote:I still don't understand why people think it is such a problem to let Pau expire. That's actually, in our case, a good backup plan.

The only player he'd be moved for is a player we would otherwise sign as an FA in 2014 anyway.

Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.


and yet rarely do I see anyone acknolwedge the fact that IF Howard was still here inorder to get that MAX guy, we'd have to resounce Kobe's rights 1st. Its not merely just letting Pau expire, I'm not exactly sure of the cap hold amt but from what I've seen on realgm his entire salary from the last year would count against the cap if his birds rights are not renounced.


Ok, I can't really say I fully understand how Bird rights impacts the picture. I thought the only reason we would NOT renounce Kobe's bird rights, is if we wanted to give him a max deal (one that other teams could not equally offer). I don't think we'd want to give Kobe a max deal.

If we waive his bird rights he becomes an unrestricted free agent. So if we have no cap room left after signing a max FA, the most we could offer Kobe is the MLE or mini MLE if we're above the apron.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby slimjim on Thu May 30, 2013 9:26 pm

You trade Pau. Kobe can kiss his last run at a ring good bye.

IMO, Kobe's last ring depends on Pau's health. No healthy Pau, no ring for Kobe.

I don't see any realistic trade pieces that gives you a better shot than a healthy Pau.

I'll bet on Pau being healthy next season over anything the Lakers can get in a trade.

Remember guys, this is his first season not playing for spain, and he had had the stem cell procedure immediately after the season ended. Dude is motivated to get healthy by the beginning of next season.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 30, 2013 11:04 pm

slimjim wrote:You trade Pau. Kobe can kiss his last run at a ring good bye.

IMO, Kobe's last ring depends on Pau's health. No healthy Pau, no ring for Kobe.

I don't see any realistic trade pieces that gives you a better shot than a healthy Pau.

I'll bet on Pau being healthy next season over anything the Lakers can get in a trade.

Remember guys, this is his first season not playing for spain, and he had had the stem cell procedure immediately after the season ended. Dude is motivated to get healthy by the beginning of next season.

I all for giving Pau on more year. Simply.... if he doesn't pan out again his contract expires we say goodbye and we have all the cap room. Unless we get a great offer for Pau I say we don't move him.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby Weezy on Thu May 30, 2013 11:12 pm

slimjim wrote:You trade Pau. Kobe can kiss his last run at a ring good bye.

IMO, Kobe's last ring depends on Pau's health. No healthy Pau, no ring for Kobe.

I don't see any realistic trade pieces that gives you a better shot than a healthy Pau.

I'll bet on Pau being healthy next season over anything the Lakers can get in a trade.

Remember guys, this is his first season not playing for spain, and he had had the stem cell procedure immediately after the season ended. Dude is motivated to get healthy by the beginning of next season.


If we're resting our championship hopes next season on Pau, we have no championship hopes. We don't know when Kobe will be back and how he will look when he is, and Pau is the key to everything? A guy who hasn't been a consistent factor for us since the 2011 regular season? Past his prime, aging, declining, lost his fire, this is not a guy that is going to be key to ring #6 for Kobe. If anything a player or players we get in a trade for Pau would give us a better chance, and I don't even know who these players would be, that's how little confidence I have in Pau now.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby JGC on Fri May 31, 2013 7:07 am

lakersin4 wrote:
JGC wrote:
khmrP wrote:
JGC wrote:I still don't understand why people think it is such a problem to let Pau expire. That's actually, in our case, a good backup plan.

The only player he'd be moved for is a player we would otherwise sign as an FA in 2014 anyway.

Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.


and yet rarely do I see anyone acknolwedge the fact that IF Howard was still here inorder to get that MAX guy, we'd have to resounce Kobe's rights 1st. Its not merely just letting Pau expire, I'm not exactly sure of the cap hold amt but from what I've seen on realgm his entire salary from the last year would count against the cap if his birds rights are not renounced.


Ok, I can't really say I fully understand how Bird rights impacts the picture. I thought the only reason we would NOT renounce Kobe's bird rights, is if we wanted to give him a max deal (one that other teams could not equally offer). I don't think we'd want to give Kobe a max deal.

If we waive his bird rights he becomes an unrestricted free agent. So if we have no cap room left after signing a max FA, the most we could offer Kobe is the MLE or mini MLE if we're above the apron.


So, then, why would we have to renounce Kobe's bird rights if we keep Howard and sign another max guy? Wouldn't we have enough with the cap being at $58M or whatever it is reportedly at to still keep Kobe even with Howard and max guy?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Fri May 31, 2013 7:59 am

^^^IF Howard is still here next season, him and Nash make up ~30+mill of the team salary. Kobe entire salary will count against our team cap unless his birds right are renounced. IF Kobe rights are renounced and we sign that max guy @ min say $18mill, thats $48mill now. Now do you use the remaining 10mill or so of the cap to sign another good/solid player and now can only offer Kobe MLE or mini (not sure yet) or give it to Kobe and again sign a bunch of cheap vet min dleague scrubs like we did last season? Kobe could however resign at a very very cheap amt. intially before we go after any big name FA but I HIGHLY doubt he settles for anything less than $10mill/yr.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Fri May 31, 2013 8:08 am

slimjim wrote:You trade Pau. Kobe can kiss his last run at a ring good bye.

IMO, Kobe's last ring depends on Pau's health. No healthy Pau, no ring for Kobe.

I don't see any realistic trade pieces that gives you a better shot than a healthy Pau.

I'll bet on Pau being healthy next season over anything the Lakers can get in a trade.

Remember guys, this is his first season not playing for spain, and he had had the stem cell procedure immediately after the season ended. Dude is motivated to get healthy by the beginning of next season.


its been nearly 3 seasons now, we still banking on Pau? :freak2: ....w/o trading him for younger pieces this team is NOT just 1 player away from contention. We can play the injury card for only so much but guys like Nash/Pau dont get healthy all of a sudden out of no where, there's a lot of mileage on these guys.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri May 31, 2013 8:50 am

JGC wrote:I still don't understand why people think it is such a problem to let Pau expire. That's actually, in our case, a good backup plan.

The only player he'd be moved for is a player we would otherwise sign as an FA in 2014 anyway.

Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.


It's not about letting Pau expire, it's the year wasted on Kobe's remaining years that we have left with him.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby Doc Brown on Fri May 31, 2013 8:55 am

Everyone needs to remember that this is 2013 and not 2008 before they post.

When you say Pau Gasol or Steve Nash, you're talking about a name at this point, not the player that made that name.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri May 31, 2013 8:56 am

Three way with Minny / Portland

Pau to Minny
AK, DWill + #9 pick to Portland
Aldridge to LA

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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Fri May 31, 2013 9:31 am

JGC wrote:
Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.

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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Fri May 31, 2013 9:38 am

letting Pau expire in hopes of landing a FA is the same type of plan as 2008 FA plan to sign Amare/Yao that lead to Kobe demanding out.
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