First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Fri May 31, 2013 9:49 am

khmrP wrote:letting Pau expire in hopes of landing a FA is the same type of plan as 2008 FA plan to sign Amare/Yao that lead to Kobe demanding out.

That worked out well for us.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Fri May 31, 2013 9:51 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:letting Pau expire in hopes of landing a FA is the same type of plan as 2008 FA plan to sign Amare/Yao that lead to Kobe demanding out.

That worked out well for us.


yea because they didn't WAIT for 2008
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Fri May 31, 2013 10:31 am

khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:letting Pau expire in hopes of landing a FA is the same type of plan as 2008 FA plan to sign Amare/Yao that lead to Kobe demanding out.

That worked out well for us.


yea because they didn't WAIT for 2008

Situations are fluid. We might not wait either if the right deal comes along. Do you think the Lakers pull a trade in 2008 just to trade? Or trade just because they know they have a chance of turning Kwame Brown into Pau Gasol?

Exactly.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakersin4 on Fri May 31, 2013 10:37 am

JGC wrote:
lakersin4 wrote:
JGC wrote:
khmrP wrote:
JGC wrote:I still don't understand why people think it is such a problem to let Pau expire. That's actually, in our case, a good backup plan.

The only player he'd be moved for is a player we would otherwise sign as an FA in 2014 anyway.

Now, I'm not actually on the Granger train like TRD and some other folks personally (I was kind of forced to say I was ... but really, I wouldn't want to sign him as a FA anyway) but I do have to agree on the point that if the FO is actually thinking it's home run or Pau expires, then that's a thought I share as well.


and yet rarely do I see anyone acknolwedge the fact that IF Howard was still here inorder to get that MAX guy, we'd have to resounce Kobe's rights 1st. Its not merely just letting Pau expire, I'm not exactly sure of the cap hold amt but from what I've seen on realgm his entire salary from the last year would count against the cap if his birds rights are not renounced.


Ok, I can't really say I fully understand how Bird rights impacts the picture. I thought the only reason we would NOT renounce Kobe's bird rights, is if we wanted to give him a max deal (one that other teams could not equally offer). I don't think we'd want to give Kobe a max deal.

If we waive his bird rights he becomes an unrestricted free agent. So if we have no cap room left after signing a max FA, the most we could offer Kobe is the MLE or mini MLE if we're above the apron.


So, then, why would we have to renounce Kobe's bird rights if we keep Howard and sign another max guy? Wouldn't we have enough with the cap being at $58M or whatever it is reportedly at to still keep Kobe even with Howard and max guy?

Because we'd still have a cap hold for the amount of Kobe's entire salary from the previous season until we renounce his bird rights. Assuming we keep Dwight, his contract + Kobe's cap hold alone would put us near the cap.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby JGC on Fri May 31, 2013 10:41 am

lakersin4 wrote:
JGC wrote:So, then, why would we have to renounce Kobe's bird rights if we keep Howard and sign another max guy? Wouldn't we have enough with the cap being at $58M or whatever it is reportedly at to still keep Kobe even with Howard and max guy?

Because we'd still have a cap hold for the amount of Kobe's entire salary from the previous season until we renounce his bird rights. Assuming we keep Dwight, his contract + Kobe's cap hold alone would put us near the cap.


Wow, I wasn't aware of that. So we HAVE to renounce his bird rights right? Which means, we HAVE to be under the cap before we sign him?

Which means, you kind of need to get all of your role players and your other max player all in line and still be under the cap somehow if you intend on signing Kobe to $10M-$15M?

(Because if you do Kobe first, then, you'll be near, at or over the cap with only like 4-5 players rostered). Do I have it right?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Fri May 31, 2013 10:41 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:letting Pau expire in hopes of landing a FA is the same type of plan as 2008 FA plan to sign Amare/Yao that lead to Kobe demanding out.

That worked out well for us.


yea because they didn't WAIT for 2008

Situations are fluid. We might not wait either if the right deal comes along. Do you think the Lakers pull a trade in 2008 just to trade? Or trade just because they know they have a chance of turning Kwame Brown into Pau Gasol?

Exactly.

Kwame, 2 1st, and Marc.....stop ignoring those assets as if they meant nothing.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakersin4 on Fri May 31, 2013 10:48 am

JGC wrote:
lakersin4 wrote:
JGC wrote:So, then, why would we have to renounce Kobe's bird rights if we keep Howard and sign another max guy? Wouldn't we have enough with the cap being at $58M or whatever it is reportedly at to still keep Kobe even with Howard and max guy?

Because we'd still have a cap hold for the amount of Kobe's entire salary from the previous season until we renounce his bird rights. Assuming we keep Dwight, his contract + Kobe's cap hold alone would put us near the cap.


Wow, I wasn't aware of that. So we HAVE to renounce his bird rights right? Which means, we HAVE to be under the cap before we sign him?

Which means, you kind of need to get all of your role players and your other max player all in line and still be under the cap somehow if you intend on signing Kobe to $10M-$15M?

(Because if you do Kobe first, then, you'll be near, at or over the cap with only like 4-5 players rostered). Do I have it right?
You have it exactly right. We have to renounce Kobe to get rid of his 30M cap hold, sign a Max guy & then we can offer Kobe anything we have left. If the Max FA puts us over the cap, the most we can offer Kobe to come back is the MLE.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby therealdeal on Fri May 31, 2013 11:07 am

khmrP wrote:Kwame, 2 1st, and Marc.....stop ignoring those assets as if they meant nothing.

Oh hooray 2 1st Round picks that were almost guaranteed to be garbage and a prospect? Obviously in retrospect that trade turned out nicely, but the point is that it centered around Kwame Brown, not the other s*** thrown in. That's like me saying the Lakers traded Andrew Bynum for Dwight Howard and you saying "yeah but don't forget we got Chris Duhon too and gave up a pick!"

Those things have an impact, but they weren't the major parts of the deal.

The point is that in 2008 we wouldn't have traded Kwame Brown unless we got back Pau Gasol or some other piece that was another major upgrade. We would have moved forward with the plan we had. But situations change, the future is never solid.

If the front office can find another "2008 Pau Gasol" trade, of course they'll do it. Otherwise they'll stick to their plan now. It worked once before, it'll work again.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby MusixFinest on Fri May 31, 2013 11:39 am

khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:letting Pau expire in hopes of landing a FA is the same type of plan as 2008 FA plan to sign Amare/Yao that lead to Kobe demanding out.

That worked out well for us.


yea because they didn't WAIT for 2008

Situations are fluid. We might not wait either if the right deal comes along. Do you think the Lakers pull a trade in 2008 just to trade? Or trade just because they know they have a chance of turning Kwame Brown into Pau Gasol?

Exactly.

Kwame, 2 1st, and Marc.....stop ignoring those assets as if they meant nothing.


And where did that get the Grizz? Lakers came out winners in that trade by default of two championships.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby khmrP on Fri May 31, 2013 11:43 am

MusixFinest wrote:And where did that get the Grizz? Lakers came out winners in that trade by default of two championships.


that wasn't the point, we didn't trade JUST Kwame. These "home" trade ain't happening as someone who think w/o these additional assests
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby TheOp on Fri May 31, 2013 12:14 pm

People need to stfu about the pau trade being unfair. The Grizz got a DPOY of the year out of it, thats more then enough. We won 2 chips with Pau, but look at him and look at Marc now.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby Pig Miller on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:02 pm

who in their right mind was complaining about the gasol trade at the time?

even now, i'd do that deal 10 times over given what it resulted in
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby JGC on Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:28 pm

TheOp wrote:People need to stfu about the pau trade being unfair. The Grizz got a DPOY of the year out of it, thats more then enough. We won 2 chips with Pau, but look at him and look at Marc now.


They made a DPOY out of it. They did not receive a DPOY out of the deal since Marc wasn't DPOY yet when the trade was transacted.

I'm pretty most of us aren't going to give those 2 rings back if it meant we could have Marc now right?
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:57 am

Mayo is likely to exercise is player option - at 4.2 milion. Probably wants to join the Bulls and Rose. If Mitch can convince him to be the future with Dwight he may take our MMLE with player options for the next two years. Trade Gasol and Meeks to Minny for Kirilenko (last year of his deal?), D. Williams, and Barea, and a pick. Trade Barea and pick to Toronto for Lowry (last year of deal), trade D. Williams to play with Wall for Ariza (last year of his deal). Try to get someone like Buddinger (FA), Bellanelli, etc. for vet min. Or just stick with Earl Clark as playing time at 3 and 4. Sign LO for vet min (back up 4 or 5 and still a decent play maker). Roll with this team (a few old vets -- LO, Kirilenko, Kobe, Nash, Blake) with a solid young team for Dwight to consider going forward (Lowry (maybe re-sign him in 2014), Mayo (part of future), Clark (part of future) and Hill (part of future). Amnesty Ron. Try to unload Blake (expiring) for a TPE.

Nash (22-26 mins, only 57 games), Lowry, Blake
Kobe (30 mins, only 50 games), Mayo, (Foye or S. Brown for vet min -- otherwise Blake will get mins here)
Ariza, Clark (Buddinger if for vet min -- since we can't get D. Wright or others for that)
Andre, LO
Dwight, Hill, Sacre

Bench scorers/facilitators - Lowry, Mayo, LO. Energy - Hill, Ariza, Lowry.

Speed/up-tempo/fast-breaking team - Lowry, Mayo, Ariza, Clark, Dwight/Hill

Halfcourt team - Nash, Kobe, Ariza, Andre/LO/Clark, Dwight

Floor spacers for Dwight/3-point guys - Nash, Mayo, Buddinger, Clark
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakersin4 on Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:28 am

tigerjeterkobe wrote:Mayo is likely to exercise is player option - at 4.2 milion. Probably wants to join the Bulls and Rose. If Mitch can convince him to be the future with Dwight he may take our MMLE with player options for the next two years. Trade Gasol and Meeks to Minny for Kirilenko (last year of his deal?), D. Williams, and Barea, and a pick. Trade Barea and pick to Toronto for Lowry (last year of deal), trade D. Williams to play with Wall for Ariza (last year of his deal). Try to get someone like Buddinger (FA), Bellanelli, etc. for vet min. Or just stick with Earl Clark as playing time at 3 and 4. Sign LO for vet min (back up 4 or 5 and still a decent play maker). Roll with this team (a few old vets -- LO, Kirilenko, Kobe, Nash, Blake) with a solid young team for Dwight to consider going forward (Lowry (maybe re-sign him in 2014), Mayo (part of future), Clark (part of future) and Hill (part of future). Amnesty Ron. Try to unload Blake (expiring) for a TPE.

Nash (22-26 mins, only 57 games), Lowry, Blake
Kobe (30 mins, only 50 games), Mayo, (Foye or S. Brown for vet min -- otherwise Blake will get mins here)
Ariza, Clark (Buddinger if for vet min -- since we can't get D. Wright or others for that)
Andre, LO
Dwight, Hill, Sacre

Bench scorers/facilitators - Lowry, Mayo, LO. Energy - Hill, Ariza, Lowry.

Speed/up-tempo/fast-breaking team - Lowry, Mayo, Ariza, Clark, Dwight/Hill

Halfcourt team - Nash, Kobe, Ariza, Andre/LO/Clark, Dwight

Floor spacers for Dwight/3-point guys - Nash, Mayo, Buddinger, Clark

Would love this scenario.. Don't think it's very realistic. If Mayo would be willing to play for a season @ mini mle & wait for our cap space next offseason, that'd be a very appealing option. I don't think we see Pau traded unless it's for a superstar or a big salary dump if they decide we can't contend(Kobe's recovery doesn't go well, Dwight leaves, etc) i don't really agree with that approach, as a package like you propose that nets us AK/Lowry/Dwill2 is enough to contend next to 24/D12/Nash/Clark/Hill. I think we could get a better SF than Ariza for Dwill2, possibly even put Blake & pieces with him in a package for Deng or Granger. I like Budinger for the minimum alot if that's an option, & wouldn't mind seeing LO back either.. There was so many plays last season where Clark was in position to make a play & just didn't have the handles/passing ability to make it happen. LO isn't what he was, but his skillset is still valuable to a team like us imo.
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:37 am

^ I agree that packaging D-Will with Blake to get a guy like Granger makes sense. But is Granger is expiring next year? I know Ariza is, and he is a healthier option than Granger and someone who Kobe likes and trusts.

Buddinger for min is not likely - but there are a bunch of SFs available this year who will get better contracts, so it is possible he signs a one-year deal to showcase a bit for a contender and then seeks a contract next year. Him and Ariza rotating and then mixng with Kobe and Mayo on the wing would great offensively and defensively. Here is a list of decent free agent SFs (some have options or are restricted)

Paul Pierce Boston Celtics $16,790,345 $15,333,334 Non-guaranteed
Omri Casspi Cleveland Cavaliers $2,277,306 $3,313,480 Qualified
C.J. Miles Cleveland Cavaliers $2,225,000 $2,225,000 N
Vladimir Radmanovic Chicago Bulls $854,389
Corey Brewer Denver Nuggets $3,243,000
Carlos Delfino Houston Rockets $3,000,000 $3,000,000 N
Chandler Parsons Houston Rockets $888,250 $926,500 N (will be re-signed for much more)
Matt Barnes Los Angeles Clippers $854,389
Devin Ebanks Los Angeles Lakers $1,054,389 $1,317,986 Q
Mike Dunleavy Milwaukee Bucks $3,750,000
Chase Budinger Minnesota Timberwolves $885,120
Chris Copeland New York Knicks $473,604 $988,872 Q
Linas Kleiza Toronto Raptors $4,600,000 $4,600,000 P
Marvin Williams Utah Jazz $8,287,500 $7,500,000 E
DeMarre Carroll Utah Jazz $885,120
Trevor Ariza Washington Wizards $7,258,960 $7,727,280 P
Luke Babbitt Portland Trail Blazers $1,892,280
Dorell Wright Philadelphia 76ers $4,106,000
Sam Young Indiana Pacers $402,065
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Re: First Trade Rumor of the Off-Season: Pau for lotto pick

Postby lakersin4 on Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:19 pm

tigerjeterkobe wrote:^ I agree that packaging D-Will with Blake to get a guy like Granger makes sense. But is Granger is expiring next year? I know Ariza is, and he is a healthier option than Granger and someone who Kobe likes and trusts.

Buddinger for min is not likely - but there are a bunch of SFs available this year who will get better contracts, so it is possible he signs a one-year deal to showcase a bit for a contender and then seeks a contract next year. Him and Ariza rotating and then mixng with Kobe and Mayo on the wing would great offensively and defensively. Here is a list of decent free agent SFs (some have options or are restricted)

Paul Pierce Boston Celtics $16,790,345 $15,333,334 Non-guaranteed
Omri Casspi Cleveland Cavaliers $2,277,306 $3,313,480 Qualified
C.J. Miles Cleveland Cavaliers $2,225,000 $2,225,000 N
Vladimir Radmanovic Chicago Bulls $854,389
Corey Brewer Denver Nuggets $3,243,000
Carlos Delfino Houston Rockets $3,000,000 $3,000,000 N
Chandler Parsons Houston Rockets $888,250 $926,500 N (will be re-signed for much more)
Matt Barnes Los Angeles Clippers $854,389
Devin Ebanks Los Angeles Lakers $1,054,389 $1,317,986 Q
Mike Dunleavy Milwaukee Bucks $3,750,000
Chase Budinger Minnesota Timberwolves $885,120
Chris Copeland New York Knicks $473,604 $988,872 Q
Linas Kleiza Toronto Raptors $4,600,000 $4,600,000 P
Marvin Williams Utah Jazz $8,287,500 $7,500,000 E
DeMarre Carroll Utah Jazz $885,120
Trevor Ariza Washington Wizards $7,258,960 $7,727,280 P
Luke Babbitt Portland Trail Blazers $1,892,280
Dorell Wright Philadelphia 76ers $4,106,000
Sam Young Indiana Pacers $402,065

Yes, Granger is expiring after next season just like Pau, so if it doesn't work out we can let him walk & go after a star.
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