Fisher summoned by the Lakers Officials -- Fish Trade Rumors

Postby Coppertop on Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:48 pm

And the Kareem Rush comment...If the lineup is Shaq, Horry, George, Kobe, and Rush, then Rush would be the "PG" in that lineup. We've already discussed how there really is no true PG in the triangle, so I guess this is a moot point anyway.
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Postby SWOL on Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:48 pm

Coppertop wrote:You know what fellas, I'm sick of this crap. She isn't dumb and here's why...

PG's who have won championships without "great" ballhandling skills.

Avery Johnson, John Paxson, RON HARPER (yeah, Bulls PG, whatever), Derek Fisher, Dennis Johnson. That leaves Magic and Isiah and Tony Parker as the only "great" ballhandlers (point guards) who have won championships since 1984.

What the heck are you looking for in a great ballhandler? You know what, Fisher is the best ballhandler on the team and here's why...He turns the ball over the least. True, in the triangle a traditional point guard is not needed. But for what we need in a point guard as far as ballhandling, Fisher does a solid job. I guarantee you Payton will turn the ball over more next year than Fisher did this year. Fisher gets the ball where it needs to go, does it efficiently, and that's all the Lakers need from him.


Fisher doesnt handle the ball Kobe does, Gary Payton is here to relieve some of that pressure from Kobe to free up other parts of his game, yes he will have more turnovers, because he will acturally handle the ball, there are PF in league handling the ball more than Fish
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Postby Coppertop on Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:00 pm

Yes, you have a point. However, Fisher's assists to turnover ratio is also top 10 in the league. All I'm saying is he is a solid ballhandler, and that's all the Lakers have needed. He is no worse than any of the Bull PG's or Avery Johnson, etc.
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Postby SWOL on Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:14 pm

no Avery had handles it was his jump shot that was broken....people would run away from so he would shoot
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Postby Danny Ainge on Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:49 pm

Maybe I'm being nieve but I feel we should keep the hatred to a minimum. Its okay to disagree with someone but this use of profanity is uncalled for. Keep in mind we have younger children viewing these boards. At any rate I feel the Fish knocking is a little too harsh, no one is expecting him to run a team but certainly as a back-up he can get the job done well enough.
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Postby thelakeshow on Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:29 pm

we know phil likes pargo so if the lakers have him GP and fisher then how much time is pargo gonna get to get better this is a good trade becouse now the sf is really stong now they just need one more big man
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Postby Danny Ainge on Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:33 pm

By throwing him into deep waters like that we are asking him to either sink or swim. Its a gamble that needs not be taken, Pargo is still so very raw and he needs to polish his game before he is traumatized by big minutes.
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Re: what!?!?!

Postby LakersGyrl2003 on Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:26 pm

LakersFan2003 wrote:What!?! This girl is crazy ... how does a PG not need to have great ball handling skills. That is probably THE most important skill a PG needs to have. Why do you think Jason Kidd is considered one of the best, if not THE best, point guard in the league? Because of his ability to set up Kenyon Martin in the post? lol ... it's because he has great speed and is able to handle the ball so well at that speed. John Stockton ... Magic Johnson ... all excellent ball handlers.

To say a PG doesn't need great ball handling skills is like saying a center doesn't need to be strong. Strength and power and knowing how to use it is the essence of a center. Ball handling is the essence of the guards (why do you think they're called guards? lol)

This chick ... she dumb. :)


I guess this guest must have misinterpreted what I wrote... As long as Fish can handle the ball, which is what he's been doin, then he's doin what he's gettin paid to do. He isn't gettin paid to have crossovers like Allen Iverson, or to be as quick as him, he's gettin paid to play the game he knows how to play. Fish dives for loose balls, and he's a great shooter, and can handle the ball.. Just cuz he doesn't have street ball skills doesn't mean he's a good ball handler.. Dayam get a life or something. Fish knows how to set up Kobe and Shaq, he's been playin with them both since they all been on the Lakers squad in 96. So he knows what he's doin. He has a power advantage over most guards. But he hasn't yet used his power like he should cuz he's too busy keepin Kobe and Shaq happy. Stockton never lead his team to the championship. Fish is a great role player, and I'm bettin none of ya'll were complainin about him when he made that comeback in the 01 championship, right?
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Postby LakersGyrl2003 on Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:43 pm

swolswol wrote:he is a [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] defender, you have [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] knowledge of the game, anything you write is horse [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.], they have never tried to move Kareem Rush to point guard, you should just read the postings and the news if you dont know what the hell you are talkin about, anything you post in the future i will disreguard as [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.].....


OOOOh!! U should start watchin Lakers games instead of doin whatever else ur doin while u have it on.. Or maybe u should start actually paying attention. SO ur tellin me u dont ever recall the Lakers playin Rush and Kobe at the same time, for most of the time he's been playin?? Rush has been playin PG, ask anyone in here, and that's why he hasn't been gettin the credit he deserves, cuz of that. He aint a ball handler, and because of his height, that's why PJ always played him as PG. If u dont ever recall that, then u must not ever watch any games. Ur worthless to the game of basketball....
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Postby Danny Ainge on Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:49 pm

Perhaps on the stat sheet he may not be known as playing pg but certainly he does bring the ball up a fair amount. PJ loves big gaurds he had Harper both in Chicago and here and there is a good chance he is trying to convert Rush into that big ball handler.
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Postby DMoNeY on Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:14 pm

I have heard what everyone has to say, but I think this trade is a win or lose situation for not only the fans, but for the Lakers.

First, Derek Fisher is a loyal guy who treats the Lakers like his family. He is a great romodel, great guy to interview, has a great head on his shoulders. He gets criticized hard for defense, but he really isnt that bad nor is it his fault guys score major numbers on him. As Coppertop said, Shaq does not defend the pick and roll well, and neither did Horry. I put money that Gary Payton will get the same beating Fisher does. Fisher, however is not a good 1-on-1 defender, and he isnt taking charges like he used to. Great bench player? Of course, besides the pressure wont be on him so much like it has been. So there is the win/lose with Fisher

Second, Desmond Mason is an upcoming star. He is not just a dunker, but he has a very good outside game. Defense is solid, but i think the main factor is because he is an athletic player, and because he is young that the Lakers want to make this move. Do they have plans to make him a PG in the future? Why not, Gilbert Arenas did it, and how well did that work out? There is no question Phil Jackson loves big guards, and in Mason he gets his wish. Desmond doesnt have much playoff experience, and is still a raw talent. So these things i have mentioned are a win/lose.

This discussion can take forever, but in truth there is no clear advantage if this trade happens. The Lakers do want to get younger after acquiring to the 2 hall of famers who are way past there young age. So if they want to go young, Mason is a great fit. I personally would rather have Mason then Fox. If the Lakers want someone who they know is loyal, then keep D. Fish, either way, no one will ever forget what Fish has been to this organization, and no one can ever replace it.
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Postby Coppertop on Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:35 pm

Word.
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Postby Vasashi17 on Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:43 pm

Um...you guys....Desmond wasn't part of that rumor to begin with....it was actually Anthony Mason....Shaq talked about if Anthony Mason came in, it would beef up their front court...and the Milwaukee Journal today stated that the Bucks GM, Parris, is not aware of this taking place, but there could possibly be talks about it if there still was to be a sign and trade with Payton.....still he said that it would be highly doubtful cause GP is expected to sign tomorrow regardless and a sign and trade hasn't been seriously discussed and A GP-mason sign and trade deal can not be set-up before tomorrow. Realistically this will stay a rumor and GP will sign for the MLE and hopefully stay on with a multiyear contract and not just one year with a players option for the 2004-2005 year.
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Nope

Postby LakersFan2003 on Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:50 am

Vasashi17 wrote:Um...you guys....Desmond wasn't part of that rumor to begin with....it was actually Anthony Mason....Shaq talked about if Anthony Mason came in, it would beef up their front court...and the Milwaukee Journal today stated that the Bucks GM, Parris, is not aware of this taking place, but there could possibly be talks about it if there still was to be a sign and trade with Payton.....still he said that it would be highly doubtful cause GP is expected to sign tomorrow regardless and a sign and trade hasn't been seriously discussed and A GP-mason sign and trade deal can not be set-up before tomorrow. Realistically this will stay a rumor and GP will sign for the MLE and hopefully stay on with a multiyear contract and not just one year with a players option for the 2004-2005 year.


No sign and trade. Lakers inked Payton in a multi-year deal, and inked Malone to a two-year deal. Sweet. I don't know if I can sleep tonight. :)

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0715/1581196.html
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Postby Coppertop on Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:11 am

Yeah, originally it was Anthony Mason, but we all hate him so much and his salary is so high (he's not a free agent) that we changed it to a Desmond Mason rumor.
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Mason

Postby LakersFan2003 on Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:23 am

Coppertop wrote:Yeah, originally it was Anthony Mason, but we all hate him so much and his salary is so high (he's not a free agent) that we changed it to a Desmond Mason rumor.


Sweet. Since a Desmond Mason trade is equally improbably and, IMHO, equally stupid, let's change it to a Frank Mason rumor.

I'm hearing a possible trade between Derek Fisher, and Slava Medvedenko for Johns Hopkins University fresman Frank Mason plus a future 1st rounder.

http://hopkinssports.ocsn.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/mason_frank00.html

He would be able to address our backcourt needs at PG. He's a little small, but lightning quick. And according to the article, has tremendous leaping ability and can handle the ball.
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Postby Coppertop on Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:25 am

Instead of gettin smart, register with the site, and then start reading a little context into what I'm saying. Read the posts about the "rumor." Yes, it's a rumor, no it is not unfounded.
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Postby 3inarow...again? on Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:10 am

If Phil wasn't our coach, I would say that this sounds like an okay trade, but with Derek Fisher being so experienced in the triangle offense I don't think it would be wise to get rid of him quite yet. With Pargo and Rush only having a one year education into the depths of the triangle, and Payton not even learning it yet (though I don't think he will have much of a problem), we would have Kobe as the only 'veteran' of the triangle in the guard position. This trade rumor sounds good on paper, but I think it would be too risky. I would recommend not to trade Fisher, at least for now, maybe next year. Although, if Payton can prove to Phil that he can handle the triangle early on in the season or before, then maybe a trade for a quick, big, and athletic guard/sf early on in the season would be extremely benificial. We have to remember not to have too many peices with not enough glue. If this makes any sense at all. :spineyes:


Yes, yes, I cannot deny...I too love fish!
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Postby Vasashi17 on Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:13 am

There you have it...GP signed to a 2 year, player option on the 2nd year and so did Karl...but I think he'll stay....GP is going to go for the money next year and you know we are definitely goin to get a ring, so its that much easier to walk away.
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Postby Danny Ainge on Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:11 am

Lets see what happens in the coming weeks now that the focus is not on Payton and Malone anymore.
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Postby SWOL on Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:28 am

LakersGyrl2003 wrote:
swolswol wrote:he is a [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] defender, you have [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] knowledge of the game, anything you write is horse [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.], they have never tried to move Kareem Rush to point guard, you should just read the postings and the news if you dont know what the hell you are talkin about, anything you post in the future i will disreguard as [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.].....


OOOOh!! U should start watchin Lakers games instead of doin whatever else ur doin while u have it on.. Or maybe u should start actually paying attention. SO ur tellin me u dont ever recall the Lakers playin Rush and Kobe at the same time, for most of the time he's been playin?? Rush has been playin PG, ask anyone in here, and that's why he hasn't been gettin the credit he deserves, cuz of that. He aint a ball handler, and because of his height, that's why PJ always played him as PG. If u dont ever recall that, then u must not ever watch any games. Ur worthless to the game of basketball....


yes i watch and pay attention.....when there are in together Kobe brings the ball up court and if you watch both ends Kobe will then take the oppositions point guard.......who is playin the point when they are both in there.....Kobe im tried of replying to you, i dont feel you know enough about the game to hold a b-ball conversation with me....im out
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Postby Danny Ainge on Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:33 am

Now if I'm not mistaken Kobe does not bring the ball up every time and I can cite specific instances in the regular season in which Rush did some major ball handling. Thats not to contradict anyones statement just to show that there is a bit of lee-way between Y'alls argument. Ya fell me?
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man

Postby LakersFan2003 on Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:35 am

swolswol wrote:
LakersGyrl2003 wrote:
swolswol wrote:he is a [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] defender, you have [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] knowledge of the game, anything you write is horse [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.], they have never tried to move Kareem Rush to point guard, you should just read the postings and the news if you dont know what the hell you are talkin about, anything you post in the future i will disreguard as [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.].....


OOOOh!! U should start watchin Lakers games instead of doin whatever else ur doin while u have it on.. Or maybe u should start actually paying attention. SO ur tellin me u dont ever recall the Lakers playin Rush and Kobe at the same time, for most of the time he's been playin?? Rush has been playin PG, ask anyone in here, and that's why he hasn't been gettin the credit he deserves, cuz of that. He aint a ball handler, and because of his height, that's why PJ always played him as PG. If u dont ever recall that, then u must not ever watch any games. Ur worthless to the game of basketball....


yes i watch and pay attention.....when there are in together Kobe brings the ball up court and if you watch both ends Kobe will then take the oppositions point guard.......who is playin the point when they are both in there.....Kobe im tried of replying to you, i dont feel you know enough about the game to hold a b-ball conversation with me....im out


Is LakersGyrl2003 really that dumb? Of course Kobe and Rush have played the floor at the same time. swolsol, we've disagreed in the past about certain things but man ... I couldn't agree with you more. I've seen some of the other postings from this chick ... she doesn't know anything about basketball. She even said a PG doesn't need to have ball handling skills. LOL... I was rolling for like 5-10 minutes.
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Postby Danny Ainge on Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:39 am

Enough! focus on the topic and stop attacking LG's opinion!
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huh?

Postby LakersFan2003 on Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:56 am

Danny Ainge wrote:Enough! focus on the topic and stop attacking LG's opinion!


Well, it affects the topic when she makes stupid comments. If we're talking about depth in the backcourt, and she talks about Rush playing the point, which... never happened and will not happen, then it affects a discussion on Lucious Harris.

Remember, a discussion require opposing opinions. We can't all agree on different opinions ... otherwise, why the need for discussion board? I'm having fun, and I'm sure everyone else is too. Let's not ruin it for everybody by trying to play forum police.
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