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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby TT24 on Sun May 20, 2012 8:33 am

Who needs to stay: Kobe, Andrew, Ron, Ramon, Jordan, Devin, Josh.

Who needs to go for sure : Pau, Matt, Troy.

Make moves that gets us shooters/bench players who will contribute. I know the new CBA sucks, but you're going to have to pay big buck to win.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby brickshooter on Sun May 20, 2012 8:52 am

Keep: Kobe, Bynum, Artest.

I want to move everyone else including Mike Brown. Bynum is a tough one. I'd move him only for DHoward.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby brickshooter on Sun May 20, 2012 8:55 am

CarolinaLakerFan wrote:Kobe, Sessions, Bynum, Hill, Glock

I see us signing Beasley and LO is the offseason.

Then, whatever we get in the Gasol trade. Hopefully we make a deal with Philly for Iggy

Sessions
Kobe
Iggy
LO
Bynum


Would you prefer Iggy or would you prefer saving money and making a run at Chris Paul the following year?
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby brickshooter on Sun May 20, 2012 8:57 am

Doc Brown wrote:
Kwame wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:I'd love for our bench next season to be....

Sessions / Ebanks / Beasley / McFly / Hill

- The McFly I want has to be the one who played for the Pacers who looked to score and could shoot the rock.
- Beasley sign and trade for Pau
- Re-sign Sessions, Ebanks and Hill

I'd love for our starters next season to be....

D.West / Kobe / MWP / Millsap / Bynum

- Delonte West with our mini-MLE
- Millsap acquired by dealing Derrick Williams (via Pau trade) to Utah

With Morris / Glock picking up the rear.


Pau is going to make $19 million next year.


Beasley 8 million, Williams 5 million, throw in a Milicic at 5 million. Trade works. The way the league wants bigs, we can easily pawn Milicic off for nothing in return and get a TPE.



I dunno about Darko. He looks really bad. His (medium) contract maybe a pain to move again.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Doc Brown on Sun May 20, 2012 9:16 am

brickshooter wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Beasley 8 million, Williams 5 million, throw in a Milicic at 5 million. Trade works. The way the league wants bigs, we can easily pawn Milicic off for nothing in return and get a TPE.



I dunno about Darko. He looks really bad. His (medium) contract maybe a pain to move again.


Darko was just a throw in to make it work. There's probably other ways to make that deal work, but just for simplicity sake Darko was the easiest way to do that.

Another would be to send out Ridnour or Barea to Utah in that 3 team deal I suggested in my initial post. That would work as well.

Lakers - Beasley / Millsap
Minny - Pau
Utah - Williams / Barea or Ridnour
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby snackdaddy on Sun May 20, 2012 9:27 am

Jporkel wrote:Who fans would like to keep and who they'd like to get and what's actually possible are two entirely different things.

The Lakers have $88.7M on the books next year for:
    Kobe
    Gasol
    Bynum
    MWP
    Sessions
    Blake
    McRoberts
    Hill
    Eyenga
    Goudelock and
    Morris
including $4.5M for Sessions who can opt out, $3.6M for Hill who's an unrestricted free agent and team options on Bynum ($16.4M), Goudelock ($0.76M) and Morris ($0.93M). Bynum's option will be picked up, as will probably Goudelock and Morris. Sessions has said he'll opt out to test free agency, Hill will get bigger offers than the Lakers can make.

So the Lakers will likely have:
    Kobe
    Gasol
    Bynum
    MWP
    Blake
    McRoberts
    Eyenga
    Goudelock
    Morris
for $80.5M, or about $10M over the luxury tax cap. Because they're more than $4M over the LT cap, the Lakers are also put at a disadvantage in the free agency market because they simply aren't permitted to offer as much to a player as can teams under the LT cap.

The new CBA really demands that you build a team through the draft, rather than free agency, and severely penalizes teams over the luxury tax cap, not only with the tax, but also by reducing what they can offer to free agents, as compared to teams under the LT cap and how many cap exceptions they get.

In any Pau trade you can look for players, salary reduction through expiring contracts and/or draft picks. If the Lakers use Pau to get a player, they probably try to get a starting PG (Sessions is likely gone). If you do that, you're left with:
    Kobe
    Bynum
    MWP
    new PG
    McRoberts(?)
as your starting lineup, with Blake, Eyenga, Goudelock, Morris, and filler as your reserves.

If they trade Pau for expiring contracts and draft picks, you're left with:
    Kobe
    Bynum
    MWP
    Blake
    McRoberts(?)
as your starting lineup, with Eyenga, Goudelock, Morris and filler as your reserves. Depending on who the expiring contract is, he may be a starter replacing Blake or McRoberts.

The Lakers have traded away their 2012 first round draft choice, and their first round draft choice in 2013 is either a top 14 choice (i.e., they don't make the playoffs) or the worst position out of the first round picks of Cleveland, Miami and Sacramento as a result of the Sessions trade. So rebuilding through the draft isn't too likely, unless, again, they can get a draft choice or two back as part of a Pau deal.

Trading Kobe (if he waived his no trade clause) forces you to bring back salary, and anyone taking Kobe's contract at his age isn't going to be sending DWill or DHoward back; you'll likely get a decent player and an expiring contract.

So far as I can see, given all of the above, I can see two courses of action:

(i) the Lakers patch the team around Bynum and Kobe for next year, trying to effect significant moves (if any) through a Pau trade, and then either talk Kobe into retiring after the 2012-13 season or amnestying him at that time, or

(ii) the Lakers blow it up now, amnesty Kobe, trade Pau for expirings and picks, write off 2012-13 and plan for 2013 and thereafter.

Given the need to keep fans in the seats, I'm guessing it'll be option (i).

In short, don't look for a championship run next year.


Thanks of for taking the time to break it all down. What you said in option (i) is exactly what I was thinking. It will give them the best chance to be a playoff team, win enough games to put butts in the seats and make some money.

But they will not be a championship team. A high 40's maybe even 50 win team. Mid seed in the playoffs and possibly 2nd round. But not top 4. They can look forward to Drew learning more. Like how to pass out of the double teams. But Kobe cannot carry the load anymore. And they can't get enough help through free agency.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby karacha on Sun May 20, 2012 9:29 am

I would like to see Ramon, Kobe, MWP, Hill and Bynum back. The rest... I don't really care that much.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby noobiew on Sun May 20, 2012 9:33 am

Kobe, Bynum, Hill, MVP, Ebanks, Gl0ck, Sessions (no overpay)
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby borri on Sun May 20, 2012 9:42 am

GoatMilk16 wrote:im going to get flack, but Kobe's contract is just a killer


Why? You are stating a fact. Kobe's play this year is worth 15-17 mil per.....and it's only going to get worse. It's quite obvious his contract will be a hindrance to us getting better, younger, and deeper.

Pau's value is at it's lowest point now. Worse comes to worst....amnesty? Or trade him for expiring scraps and amnesty Kobe when the time comes....

Almost impossible to rebuild when you have long and big contracts for aging star players.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby raviator on Sun May 20, 2012 10:04 am

Kobe, Bynum, MWP, Hill, maybe Sessions if he resigns for cheap. If anything that's not a bad starting five depending on who the point guard is. But our biggest problem is the bench, we absolutely need production off the bench if we are going to compete next year. Trading Gasol might not bring another superstar but could bring in some players that could be productive off the bench.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby therealdeal on Sun May 20, 2012 10:14 am

Guys the recipe is simple: trade Gasol for young pieces. If you can get two players and a draft pick back for Gasol, we're a much better team.

That's not to say that I don't love and appreciate Pau for everything he's done, but his time here is over. The so called size advantage that the Lakers have is almost nonexistent because Pau just isn't the player he used to be (neither is Kobe).

We trade Pau for a few young pieces and here's some options:
Pau for Wesley Johnson, Anthony Randolph, Michael Beasley (re-signed to make the trade) and hopefully a pick.

Pau for Ekpe Udoh, Mbah a Moute, Brockman and a pick.

Pau for Jarret Jack, Jason Smith, and Xavier Henry.

and of course

Pau for Martin, Scola, and Dragic.

Anything of this nature is going to make the Lakers younger and more athletic, which is something they clearly need at this point.

I would say that you need to keep Sessions for that very reason. Along with trying to retain Devin Ebanks and Jordan Hill. I think that Artest has done enough to prove he belongs here and not somewhere else. I think we let Troy Murphy go and hopefully give McRoberts some more opportunities.

You may look into trying to trade Blake, but he's proven to be a solid player in these playoffs and I think he's proven he deserves one more chance. Besides, his contract is not exactly the most movable at this point.

So you roll into the the 2012-2013 season with this:

Sessions/Blake/ (new blood PG)
Bryant/ (new blood SG/ Goudelock
Artest/ Ebanks (or new blood SF)/ Eyenga
McRoberts/ (new blood PF)
Bynum/ Hill

It'd be fairly simple. I think the obvious part that we lose is our scoring advantage in Gasol. Other teams are going to be able to double Bynum almost immediately and that will limit his offense. However, we also would have new, young guys going after boards like Hill who would help negate that.

The other counter is that we'd be able to fastbreak which is something this team cannot do. With a younger, more athletic bench we can get out and run and create easy baskets so we don't need to rely on Kobe and Bynum in the post every single play in half court sets.

The recipe to me is simple.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun May 20, 2012 10:15 am

everyone can be had for the right price (except kobe)
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby cthroatgtr on Sun May 20, 2012 10:19 am

You trade Pau. Let Barnes go. Maybe Blake go. Team needs the following:

Spacing PF; Backup SG; Shooters; Youth and athleticism; Backup SF;

Right now you have two centers and old SG and SF and an inexperienced PG with no real shooters on the team. Keep Hill if you can. Pickup a PF more comfortable as a perimeter PF than a post up one. Find a viable swing that can shoot and defend.

Its not completely broken just mismatched. In today's NBA two 7 footers doesn't work. Even Denver exploited it.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby PurpleNGold1 on Sun May 20, 2012 10:56 am

ryan anderson/? novak? we need a spacing pf but at the same a pf whos not scared or afraid to get dirty
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby baddmann28 on Sun May 20, 2012 11:23 am

I'd keep Bynum and Kobe. I'd like to see Sessions get a full camp, and Hill for his hustle.

If there's anyway to magically get a solid backup SG so we can cut Kobe's regular season minutes to about 30 we have to do it.

Unfortunately, I think Gasol has to be the trading chip.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 20, 2012 11:59 am

It isn't so much as who I want to keep but what's actually doable......

Bynum and Kobe aren't going anywhere IMO.... Kobe because he's Kobe... and Bynum because there is no equal value at his position other than Howard who isn't coming here.

Ebanks should be gone.... had his chance and failed miserably.
Goudelock will be back
Morris should be gone.... see Ebanks above
McRoberts should stay...... he needs to be the player we say in the final regular season game
Hill can go..... I wouldn't put anymore money into one skill players....
Sessions is a keeper.... only if we can get a real starting point guard.... He's not the floor general we need on the floor with an aging Kobe IMHO.
Blake will most likely be back because he isn't tradable unless we attach him to Pau on his way out
MWP has shown glimpses of why we got him in recent weeks... He should stay but come off the bench
Pau.... he needs to go. We need a SF that can create his own shot and shoot the 3 and a guard.. don't know if that is possible for him but we will see.
Murphy played his role fairly well.... I'm indifferent on him.
Barnes should go
Eyenga is an unknown. He started for Cleveland for awhile and then faded all the way to the D league. Who knows?

In the end we need some hungry young players that are more than single skill players. Ebanks, Hill, Barnes, Pau, Morris should all be gone IMO. Blake and Murphy will go if we can get decent replacements.... Getting equal value for Pau will be difficult.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Lakerjones on Sun May 20, 2012 12:04 pm

I actually like our team and think we could succeed with a different coach. That would be the first change I would try rather than personnel. At this point I would probably cut bait with Blake.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 20, 2012 12:11 pm

Lakerjones wrote:I actually like our team and think we could succeed with a different coach. That would be the first change I would try rather than personnel. At this point I would probably cut bait with Blake.


Boy.... I'm not sure this is a matter of changing the coach and "tweaking" the team.... we have no balance at all..... We have no assets other than the two bigs to trade to get balance.... we have a lot of single skill players and very very few balanced players.... This roster needs some more balance..... and a point guard that isn't a deer in the headlights and will actually go away from Kobe when it isn't working.....
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby last stand on Sun May 20, 2012 12:32 pm

The 2014 Lebron plan is in effect. I expect no contracts longer than 2 years acquired
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby CarolinaLakerFan on Sun May 20, 2012 12:52 pm

brickshooter wrote:
CarolinaLakerFan wrote:Kobe, Sessions, Bynum, Hill, Glock

I see us signing Beasley and LO is the offseason.

Then, whatever we get in the Gasol trade. Hopefully we make a deal with Philly for Iggy

Sessions
Kobe
Iggy
LO
Bynum


Would you prefer Iggy or would you prefer saving money and making a run at Chris Paul the following year?


Iggy. Kobe will be 35 by the time CP3 could get to the Lakers. Iggy gives us a chance to win now.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby CarolinaLakerFan on Sun May 20, 2012 1:02 pm

last stand wrote:The 2014 Lebron plan is in effect. I expect no contracts longer than 2 years acquired


I see this happening too. He and Wade can't co-exist. Not a big Lebron fan, but I'll find a way to root for him in P&G. :man12:
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Lakers4Ever on Sun May 20, 2012 1:12 pm

Youthfully I'd keep:

Sessions
Bryant
Ebanks
Hill
Bynum
Goudelock
MWP
McRoberts

Combination of stars and cheap yet affordable bench players. Trade Gasol for a few young vets for the bench. I see us running more next year. This slow half court offense doesn't work anymore. The future is taking it back to the 80s run and gun offense. SHOWTIME BABY!
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby lotus on Sun May 20, 2012 1:31 pm

Doc Brown wrote:I'd love for our bench next season to be....

Sessions / Ebanks / Beasley / McFly / Hill

- The McFly I want has to be the one who played for the Pacers who looked to score and could shoot the rock.
- Beasley sign and trade for Pau
- Re-sign Sessions, Ebanks and Hill

I'd love for our starters next season to be....

D.West / Kobe / MWP / Millsap / Bynum

- Delonte West with our mini-MLE
- Millsap acquired by dealing Derrick Willi
With Morris / Glock picking up the rear.

That's too pricey of a roster.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby XXIV on Sun May 20, 2012 1:44 pm

^ How would you build a contender while keeping salary down with our current situation?
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Doc Brown on Sun May 20, 2012 1:53 pm

lotus wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:I'd love for our bench next season to be....

Sessions / Ebanks / Beasley / McFly / Hill

- The McFly I want has to be the one who played for the Pacers who looked to score and could shoot the rock.
- Beasley sign and trade for Pau
- Re-sign Sessions, Ebanks and Hill

I'd love for our starters next season to be....

D.West / Kobe / MWP / Millsap / Bynum

- Delonte West with our mini-MLE
- Millsap acquired by dealing Derrick Willi
With Morris / Glock picking up the rear.

That's too pricey of a roster.


The FO has to dish out a little extra cash for the rest of the Kobe era. Or we won't be fielding a competitive team anytime soon.

It is what it is, like XXIV said, with our situation, we have to give something to get something in return. Beasley + Milsap will still be lower than Pau's combined salary for next year. We would still be in the same position, just that we have more depth and a better overall team, by spending the same amount of money.
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