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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:38 am

Stephenson! Stephenson! Stephenson!

You guys hear that? It's the Stephenson train gaining momentum.

Awww yissssssss

Seriously, we need to test the Pacers by throwing a contract at Lance that he can't refuse, make the Pacers look at the luxury tax dead in the face. Do it Mitch.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:09 am

I'm definitely getting aboard the train too. But not at the cost of other assets.

I think Stephenson is more of a 3rd option type of player. We need the first two options or at least the flexibility to get those two options. If we sign him, we need to preserve the money needed to get Love. Kobe, Love, and Stephenson with some of our bench players back and a rookie... That's a pretty good team. Probably a 6th seed or something.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:00 pm

Indiana Pacers fans would be wise to cherish Lance Stephenson's ongoing evolution now, because he may not be around much longer.

Stephenson will hit unrestricted free agency this summer, where he will be met by an influx of hungry, deep-pocketed suitors bearing checks and promising additional fame. Among his admirers will be the Pacers, the team that facilitated Stephenson's rise from a brazen second-round draft pick to legitimate cornerstone with a pleasant edge.

The same team Stephenson doesn't want to leave.

"This is a great team—I’d love to stay," he told the The New York Times' Harvey Araton.

Remaining with the Pacers isn't that simple. Indiana is hamstrung by the same financial limitations all small markets face, detriments that won't disappear between now and free agency.

Constraints that could prevent Indy from retaining one of the most invaluable assets it currently has.

Gauging Stephenson's Value

Determining Stephen's exact value isn't easy.

The lines of potential compensation remain blurred this side of the CBA, more than three years later. Just know that Stephenson, who will earn just over $1 million this season, will net more.

According to Sports Illustrated's Chris Mannix, much more:

'Rival execs predicting Lance Stephenson will be worth between $7 and $9 million per season in a multi year deal this summer.'

That's not an unreasonable range considering how productive Stephenson has been (more on this momentarily). But it's also not a definitive one. Stephenson could see more, or he could wind up accepting less.

If he winds up accepting less, it will be for the Pacers. He won't be giving out discounts like Tootsie Pops on Halloween.

"I'm staying with the Pacers," he told Pacers.com's Mark Montieth in November.

While it's not unrealistic to envision Stephenson accepting a slight pay cut to remain in Indiana, his market may make the decision for him. Small differences are something he can stomach, but there will be a team that complicates things. That presents a drastically different offer.

It always happens like this. Teams force each other to make difficult decisions, and Indiana's is shaping up to be a doozy, maybe even an impossible one.

Stephenson is one of three NBA players averaging at least 13 points, six rebounds and five assists per game. The other two? LeBron James and Nicolas Batum, who are each earning substantially more than $7-9 million annually. Batum is the cheapest of the two, and he's bringing home nearly $11.3 million this season.

For the longest time, I've also compared Stephenson to Andre Iguodala. The two are eerily similar in skill set, able to impact both ends of the floor while also seesawing between off-ball and on-ball scorers and point forwards of sorts.

Exhibit A:

Iggy vs. Stephenson
Player PTS FG% 3P% REBS ASTS STLS Off. Rtg. Def. Rtg. PER 2013-14 Salary
Iggy 10.7 52.6 45.1 4.0 5.0 1.6 114 101 14.8 $12,868,632
Lance 13.3 48.7 35.8 6.6 5.2 0.7 107 98 15.0 $1,005,000
Via Basketball-Reference and ShamSports.

Not to say I speak for everyone, but I bet you didn't see that coming. Bothy Iggy and Stephenson are versatile players capable of having profound impacts. Teams with will pony up for that kind of double-ended talent. The Golden State Warriors sure did.

Because we should all be suckers for additional perspective, let's take a look at all players who are logging at least 30 minutes per game while also posting offensive ratings over 105 and defensive ratings under 100:

Cost of Two-Way Players
Player MPG Off. Rtg. Def. Rtg. Net Rtg. 2013-14 Salary
Kevin Durant 37.8 121 98 +23 $17,832,627
Paul George 36.5 113 94 +19 $3,282,003
DeAndre Jordan 35.3 115 97 +18 $10,986,550
Serge Ibaka 32.2 111 99 +12 $12,350,000
Lance Stephenson 35.2 107 98 +9 $1,005,000
Roy Hibbert 30.3 107 93 +14 $14,283,844
Joakim Noah 32.3 108 97 +11 $11,100,000
George Hill 31.7 111 98 +13 $8,000,000
Via Basketball-Reference and ShamSports.


First thing's first: Holy hell, Indiana. Four of the eight players on this list are Pacers. That's absurd.

Now, notice how much every other player aside from Stephenson is making. Save for Paul George and George Hill, he's the only one not earning eight figures annually. And I'm inclined to exclude George, since he's already the proud owner of a max extension that kicks in next season.

So, technically, Stephenson and Hill are the only ones taking home under eight figures, and at $8 million, Hill's pretty damn close.

This isn't to say Stephenson is worth Kevin Durant money—he's not. The CBA also won't allow anyone to pay him that much. But the average salary on this list is over $9.8 million, so that $7-9 million could be generously priced in the wrong direction.

How Much Can Stephenson Actually Be Paid?

All we need do is look at Larry Coon's CBA FAQ to find the answer.

According to Coon, the maximum starting salary for players who have been in the league for six years or less will be $13.7 million in 2013-14. Some team could offer Stephenson that coin.

Will they? Probably not.

That's more money than Iguodala signed for last summer. The current CBA punishes teams for overspending, preaching shrewd investing instead. But is it implausible to believe Stephenson could net $10 million to start? Not in my book.

Complicating matters will be Stephenson's free-agency status. He won't be a restricted free agent, so Indy won't have the opportunity to match any offer he receives. If the Pacers want to keep him, they'll have to sew him up before someone else does.


How Much Can Indy Afford to Pay Him?


This is a different, more loaded question entirely.

The Pacers won't be willing to dip into the luxury tax. Team president Larry Bird has made that perfectly clear. Leading into next season, that creates some issues.

Here's a look at Indy's salary commitments for 2014-15 (asterisk denotes non-guaranteed contract):

Pacers Salary Outlook
Player 2014-15 Salary
Roy Hibbert $14,898,938
David West $12,000,000
George Hill $8,000,000
Luis Scola $4,868,499*
Ian Mahinmi $4,000,000
Paul George $13,701,250
Chris Copeland $3,135,000
C.J. Watson $2,077,000
Solomon Hill $1,302,840
Lance Stephenson N/A
Donald Sloan $948,163*
Orlando Johnson $915,243*
Total salaries $65,846,933
Total w/o options $65,846,933
Via ShamSports.com.


Assuming the Pacers retain Luis Scola, Orlando Johnson and Donald Sloan, they have more more than $65.8 million committed to 11 players next year. As Bleacher Report's D.J. Foster reminds us, the projected luxury-tax line for 2014-15 is $75.7 million. This theoretically allows the Pacers to offer Stephenson just under $10 million to start, right in the $7-9 million range.

But that number is bound to decline.

Foster also notes that George is eligible for a $3 million salary bump if named to this year's All-NBA team, which let's face it, is going to happen. This puts Indy's ledger at roughly $68.8 million, suggesting it can only afford to pay Stephenson under $7 million in 2014-15.

Not only is that below Mannix's $7-9 million forecast, it prevents the Pacers from potentially rising above it.

So, you know, uh-oh.

Understand this dilemma was unavoidable.

The market demanded George and Hibbert be paid handsomely, and while I'm also no advocate of Hill's contract, $8 million annually is hardly sickening. David West' three-year, $36-million contract on the other hand...

But whatever. No one can say the Pacers have been irresponsible with their money. There's that much.

This early in the process, Stephenson is also far from a goner. He could surprise us all, and take less. Make that "much less." At 23, that's unlikely, especially after George and Hibbert didn't do the same. That puts this all on the Pacers.

Dumping Scola's $4.8 million salary creates extra wiggle room, assuming that's possible. Unfortunately, even that may not do the trick.

"He has totally reinvented himself," said Tom Konchalski, a Queens-based basketball scout, of Stephenson, via Araton.

Reinvented himself to the point of a lavish contract outside Indy's means? If the Pacers are, in fact, unwilling to foot luxury-tax bills and Stephenson is averse to accepting well below his market value, then yes, that's exactly what he's done.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1907 ... rice-range

I read this article about a week ago...thought it provided a decent breakdown...
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:11 pm

I'd go after Stevenson for Around 10M. I think he's worth it. He's like a bigger Westbrook.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Magic Skywalker on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:35 pm

While I do agree on going for Stephenson (I think he's a terrific young player with a very high ceiling, and he certainly seems to have matured from when he came into the league), I certainly disagree on him being a bigger Westbrook.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby jhalp on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:00 pm

Lance is everything we need and at a bargain in my opinion. Offer this guy between 10-13 and lock it up. He is a superstar next year. The guy does it on both ends and is getting the team whatever it needs every game. Very underrated in my opinion. I think he is CLOSELY behind George as the best player on the pacers. To me its a no brainer, he should be top priority over mellow or anyone next year.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:17 pm

LakersN4 wrote:Bulls fans are hopeful that they amnesty Boozer & deal Gibson & Dunleavy for Pau to let him expire & make an offer to Melo.. If only the fans actually ran that team. I'll take Gibson & Bledsoe, Monroe, or Deng over Melo anyday.

welp..

The Los Angeles Lakers, Washington Wizards and Charlotte Bobcats have each engaged in preliminary trade talks with the Chicago Bulls regarding Taj Gibson, according to a source.

The Bulls reportedly did not like the possible return from any of the teams.

The Bulls could be determined to move salary to create room and pair Derrick Rose with a second superstar.

“The way that works is this, when something gets close or they think there’s something there that makes sense they’ll come to me,’’ Tom Thibodeau said. “Every conversation that they’re having I don’t know about nor do I want to know about. I think it’s important for me to be focused on the guys we do have.

Via Joe Cowley/Chicago Sun-Times
Hope this goes somewhere.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:21 pm

Getting Taj Gibson would be great, but if we trade Pau, I want another 1st Round Pick and preferably for this year.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:24 pm

Yeah I wouldn't want to make that trade... Taj Gibson is a player that I actually like, but for Pau? And what else?

Not to mention his contract really isn't that friendly.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:32 pm

therealdeal wrote:Yeah I wouldn't want to make that trade... Taj Gibson is a player that I actually like, but for Pau? And what else?

Not to mention his contract really isn't that friendly.

I forgot about that?

:scurred:

13/14: $7,550,000
14/15: $8,000,000
15/16: $8,500,000
16/17: $8,950,000

That's bad... haha

Almost makes me want us to ask for (2) 1st Round Picks if we get him
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby D.B. Cooper on Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:07 pm

No thx to Taj

Yes! to Lance
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:43 pm

Well, Lance is a nice player, if he is going to be teamed with Wiggins and Love. We would need two star/borderline superstars for him to be worth it.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:17 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Yeah I wouldn't want to make that trade... Taj Gibson is a player that I actually like, but for Pau? And what else?

Not to mention his contract really isn't that friendly.

I forgot about that?

:scurred:

13/14: $7,550,000
14/15: $8,000,000
15/16: $8,500,000
16/17: $8,950,000

That's bad... haha

Almost makes me want us to ask for (2) 1st Round Picks if we get him

It's not that bad really.. If we're going after Melo or Love, either way we need a legit paint defender next to them. Taj isn't expensive for being 1 of the best defenders in the league in the paint. I like the idea of trading for him more than signing Lance, Bledsoe, Monroe, or even Melo.. since all of them would make much more than Taj does & likely prevent us from being able to offer Love the max.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:10 pm

Attention all armchair GMs....cap is projected to be at 62.1M next year and will be higher than that for the 2015/16 season. Also this will increase the luxury tax apron up from its current 71.8M (my guess 75.2).

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2014/01/31/irish-coffee-rajon-rondo-financial-planning-for-nba-free-agency-and-a-celtics-conspiracy-that-just-makes-cents/
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:41 pm

seriously hope we get Love in a LA as a Laker where he belongs.

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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby karacha on Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:36 pm

Oh yes. :man9:
"It's not realistic to get younger and better when you only have the veteran's minimum to offer free agents." :mhihi:

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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vlade_12 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:50 pm

we need to make these trades
Gasol to Bobcats or Suns for expiring contracts and a 2014 1st. try to get a second but I doubt it.

trade jodie meeks to Indy or some team in the playoffs that can use a boost to their bench. Pacers make sense because they are so close to be over the hill. perfect time to trade Jodie Meeks. he is having a career year scoring 14 pts with 40 percent from the 3. I would trade for a first or 2 2nd round picks. this trade works, meeks to pacers for 2nd rounders and orlando johnson a 6'6 young sg with 6'11 wingspan who we can buy out in the offseason. or the expiring Rasual butler. Meeks is a good matchup to Ray allen
that pacer bench would be
Bynum, Scoala, Granger, Meeks, Watson
so solid and better then Miamis bench. what playoff team wouldnt want a role player off the bench who can shoot. shooting role players are highly sought out. I like Jodie but he is going to get good money as a free agent this year, and I think he walks for nothing. Getting rid of these two would allow us to gain a couple assets and improve our long term by securing a high draft pick.

roster to ride out this horrible year
c
kaman sacre brian cook
pf
kelly hill
sf
wesj x
sg
swaggy p harris orlando johnson
pg
marshall farmar

guys on the shelf hurt: kobe, blake, nash
i suggest we sign a lousy big after trading gasol. bring back brian cook because he shoots 3s lol....ensure we land in the top3. Give Hill plenty of minutes and see what we have in Kaman. He has skill and is cheap.

2014 picks
top 3 1st
midround 1st
2 2nd rounders
we could possibly trade up with more assets and get another late 1st rounder and look for young role players in the 2nd. we need more youth with talent, and not let assets leave with no return on value
Howard Gasol
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Playoff rotation! Bring Casspi or Ariza back home for a Title Run Mitch!!!
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vlade_12 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:02 pm

those two deals will make up for that stupid nash deal
Howard Gasol
Clark Hill
MWP
Kobe Meeks
Nash Duhon
Playoff rotation! Bring Casspi or Ariza back home for a Title Run Mitch!!!
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Pig Miller on Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:56 am

why would charlotte give us expirings and a 1st to rent gasol for 2 months? if getting gasol and moving up to the 7th seed is their plan, then MJ is dumber than what everyone thinks he is
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:49 am

Pig Miller wrote:why would charlotte give us expirings and a 1st to rent gasol for 2 months? if getting gasol and moving up to the 7th seed is their plan, then MJ is dumber than what everyone thinks he is


You are looking at it the wrong way. Some teams in the league right now are under a lot of pressure from the FO and fans to make the playoffs. Charlotte and Cleveland both come to mind as teams that have spent some money this offseason to get to the playoffs this year.

You can't live in the lottery forever and fans don't take kindly to an annual loser every year.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:34 am

The Machine is coming back to LA!!!!!!

































For the Clippers.

LOS ANGELES -- The Los Angeles Clippers are expected to sign free-agent guard Sasha Vujacic to a 10-day contract on Monday, according to sources.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby karacha on Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:07 am

Good for Sasha!
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:16 am

Man what would Sterling and the Clippers do if we weren't around? They'd never know who can actually play basketball if they didn't sign or steal all of our ex-players.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:19 am

That offense is made for him. Wonder if he has anything left.

Prepare yourself for the "Fake Hustle" era in Clipper Land… err… well…. I guess they have always been in that zip code haven't they?…..
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:32 pm

Rooscooter wrote:That offense is made for him. Wonder if he has anything left.

Prepare yourself for the "Fake Hustle" era in Clipper Land… err… well…. I guess they have always been in that zip code haven't they?…..


Fake Hustle is something new to them. Up until recently, they didn't even try to fake it.
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