Free Agent Frenzy: Wayne Ellington signed (423)

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:42 pm

I tend to believe that Stephenson are pieces the Lakers are going to concentrate on; and as reported earlier, by Alex Kennedy, Deng is another player we may target...that's a positive. We need 2-way players in a very bad way. The only 'name' we're going after in the near future that is a realistic target is Love in 2015. After that, if Kevin Durant hasn't won a championship in OKC, I could see him heading out of town, and that's where things get interesting, IMO. Everybody will go after him; but if we have Love and a good core that's in need of a Durant to take the reigns and be that guy for us, he just might...we'll see, though. It's all predicated on Durant not winning a chip in OKC; if he does, he stays...
lukewaltonsdad

 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:14 am

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:34 pm

There's the Okafor deal on the table, but would you guys revisit the Pau to Cleveland talks again?

And the general toxicity in the air around this team -- where rumblings of player discontent with Mike Brown are getting louder by the day -- makes you wonder if they have any hope of re-signing newly acquired (and shell-shocked) Luol Deng in free agency.

That's right: What was supposed to be a season exciting enough to make LeBron James think seriously about leaving Miami to come back to the Cavs has descended into such farce that sources close to the situation are already saying that there's little-to-no chance Deng will agree to stay once he hits free agency.

via ESPN

After a Pau for Deng deal, Cleveland would still be a non-tax payer and Pau's played for Brown, so there is a familiarity there. Also Pau would really help that toxic environment there. We also know that Deng was Grant's guy, so with Grant gone, the Cavs wouldn't want to lose Deng for nothing...they could try one last turnaround by bringing in the Spaniard.

I'm thinking that if you gave me a choice to have Bird Right's between Deng and Okafor, I would probably go with Deng. The problem with trading for Deng is that he would make us competitive again (hurting our lotto balls) while Okafor probably remains in street clothes. If you trade for Okafor, most likely that deal happens if LA gets a mid 1st round pick.

So what would you guys do?

BTW, trading for Deng also puts us that much closer to the tax apron. We would be about 2.3M away....so I would deal away Kaman and 3M (buyout) for a 2nd rounder.
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:39 pm

^ Easy.

Make the trade for Okafor and a first. Then in the off-season sign Deng. If he's leaving anyway, then why bother worrying about Bird Rights? This way we have Bird Rights to Okafor who can be solid if he ever gets healthy and we have the cap space to go get Deng AND we get a late pick.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40322
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:44 pm

Nice solution, but we get a significant amount of flexibility when you account for cap holds and how Bird Rights allow you to go past the salary cap. If Deng is truly the target, you would want his Bird Rights, cause it helps with any other target we might have in free agency.

For example:
39. Why do free agents continue to count against team salary?

It closes a loophole. Teams otherwise would be able to sign other teams' free agents using their cap room, and then turn their attention to their own free agents using the Bird exception. This rule restricts their ability to do that. It uses the player's current status (type of free agent, whether coming off a rookie contract, and previous salary) as a rough guideline to predict the amount the player is likely to receive in his next contract, and sets that amount aside in the form of a cap hold. But while it functions as a rough guideline, it's obviously not perfect -- for example, in 2005 Michael Redd's free agent amount was just $6 million, even though the Bucks intended to re-sign him for the maximum salary. By waiting to sign Redd last, the Bucks were able to take advantage of the difference by signing Bobby Simmons. Had they signed Redd first, they would not have had enough cap room to sign Simmons.
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Is something going down.... :man1:

Cleveland Cavaliers forward Luol Deng was a late scratch from Friday night's game against the Washington Wizards because of flu-like symptoms.

Deng, who was acquired by Cleveland from Chicago on Jan. 7, is the team's second-leading scorer with a 15.3 points per game average in 14 games since the trade.

Kyrie Irving, the Cavaliers' leading scorer, missed Friday's shootaround because of illness, but he is in the starting lineup.
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:09 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Deng ends up in PHX.
Rule of Thumb at ClubLakers - Never encourage people to check your post history.
User avatar
Doc Brown

 
Posts: 19446
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:11 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:14 pm

^I think they are going to have a fire sale before the trade deadline. Everybody is available besides Irving. They'll attempt to blow it up. I do like Deng. If I couldn't get one of the better picks from Phoenix, I would explore a Pau for Deng deal; heck, they Cleveland might part with a draft pick and or Waiters for Pau; although, can we get the tax savings that was proposed in the earlier deal for Bynum?
lukewaltonsdad

 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:14 am

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:25 pm

I understand the salary cap and the Bird Rights. I'm in favor of trading for Love for that exact reason. But that's because I'd rather have Love than Deng. If we're going to need Bird Rights to sign someone like Deng, he's going to be too expensive. If the Lakers don't land a star like LeBron or Carmelo, I don't see them spending more than 10-12 million on a free agent because they're going to preserve cap space for Love in 2015. If it's between Deng and Stephenson for that amount, I'd probably rather go Stephenson.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40322
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:16 pm

You're right, TRD. We'll probably go after Stephenson more so than Deng. He's younger, less injury prone, and has more upside, IMO. He's primarily the PG in Indiana; he initiates the offense, can break down the defense, and has enough size/strength to finish inside.
lukewaltonsdad

 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:14 am

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:04 am

We already told you there were reports Luol Deng was dismayed at what he saw in Cleveland — as he should be. Of course, he came out and publicly denied this but what players say to the media when the mics are on and what they tell their friends are as different as what happened at your bachelor party and what you told your future wife had happened.

Now comes another report that Deng has surveyed the Cleveland situation seen a tire fire the size of the one in “The Simpsons” and decided will bolt this summer. This one is from the largely reliable Marc Stein of ESPN.

"And the general toxicity in the air around this team — where rumblings of player discontent with Mike Brown are getting louder by the day — makes you wonder if they have any hope of re-signing newly acquired (and shell-shocked) Luol Deng in free agency.

That’s right: What was supposed to be a season exciting enough to make LeBron James think seriously about leaving Miami to come back to the Cavs has descended into such farce that sources close to the situation are already saying that there’s little-to-no chance Deng will agree to stay once he hits free agency."


his was always the risk when Cleveland made the Deng trade, but then GM Chris Grant new owner Dan Gilbert wanted to make the playoffs and with his team floundering he made a move that was both bold and desperate.

Deng will have options this summer. Whether he has options at the money he expects to make remains to be seen (remember he reportedly rejected three years, $30 million from the Bulls) but he will have options.

And guys who have options don’t have to stay in situations where they are not happy.


http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... cleveland/
lukewaltonsdad

 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:14 am

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:04 pm

Greg Monroe fans:

Monroe's agent, David Falk, is known to have taken a max-contract-or-no-deal stance last summer when an extension was not agreed upon between the two sides, and there were strong signs even before Monroe's production declined that Dumars didn't see him as a max player. Yet anyone who saw Falk's deft handling of the Roy Hibbert situation two summers ago should know better than to doubt his ability to find a max offer for Monroe in restricted free agency this summer: The Indiana Pacers had no plans of paying Hibbert max money, but the Portland Trail Blazers did to force Indiana to match. USA Today Sports - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.VWPDcAuA.dpuf

[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/02/07/a-to-z-trade-talks-selling-carmelo-anthony-kyrie-irving-rajon-rondo/5295879/
[/url]
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40322
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:46 pm

And with the first pick in the 2034 draft.......

Image
"I just put my faith in God. Through him we can do all things"
- Kobe Bryant, March 24, 2004
User avatar
Battle Tested20

 
Posts: 11701
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:39 pm
Location: San Diego, CA (SDSU)

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:59 pm

lukewaltonsdad wrote:I tend to believe that Stephenson are pieces the Lakers are going to concentrate on; and as reported earlier, by Alex Kennedy, Deng is another player we may target...that's a positive. We need 2-way players in a very bad way. The only 'name' we're going after in the near future that is a realistic target is Love in 2015. After that, if Kevin Durant hasn't won a championship in OKC, I could see him heading out of town, and that's where things get interesting, IMO. Everybody will go after him; but if we have Love and a good core that's in need of a Durant to take the reigns and be that guy for us, he just might...we'll see, though. It's all predicated on Durant not winning a chip in OKC; if he does, he stays...


That's the key though right there. We need to have a solid core. Stephenson, Love and Exum/Smart would be a no brainer if Durant wanted to leave. Live in So. Cal, play for the best franchise in basketball with teammates that compliment your strengths. And its not out of the realm of possibility.
User avatar
Savory Griddles

 
Posts: 9048
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:56 am
Location: AV,CA

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:40 pm

Not to be THAT Laker fan but...

LeBron isn't as far fetched right now as I thought it would be. If Bosh leaves and Wade continues looking like a shell of himself, then why would LeBron stay there? If the Lakers picked up a piece like Deng or Stephenson, Nash retired, and we drafted a young stud like Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid. Heck even Gordon would be an exciting piece. We would look about as inviting as anywhere else.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40322
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:17 pm

But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50866
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:21 pm

therealdeal wrote:Not to be THAT Laker fan but...

LeBron isn't as far fetched right now as I thought it would be. If Bosh leaves and Wade continues looking like a shell of himself, then why would LeBron stay there? If the Lakers picked up a piece like Deng or Stephenson, Nash retired, and we drafted a young stud like Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid. Heck even Gordon would be an exciting piece. We would look about as inviting as anywhere else.


We can't pick up both LBJ and Stephenson. Not enough space. LBJ would have to be enamored with our draft pick. Remember, Love plus Stephenson BARELY works under the cap.
User avatar
Savory Griddles

 
Posts: 9048
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:56 am
Location: AV,CA

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:56 pm

Weezy wrote:But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.

I will leave the internet for the last 30 years of my life before the Clippers got LeBron. It's not happening.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40322
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:57 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Not to be THAT Laker fan but...

LeBron isn't as far fetched right now as I thought it would be. If Bosh leaves and Wade continues looking like a shell of himself, then why would LeBron stay there? If the Lakers picked up a piece like Deng or Stephenson, Nash retired, and we drafted a young stud like Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid. Heck even Gordon would be an exciting piece. We would look about as inviting as anywhere else.


We can't pick up both LBJ and Stephenson. Not enough space. LBJ would have to be enamored with our draft pick. Remember, Love plus Stephenson BARELY works under the cap.

Cap at 60 million.
Kobe- 23.5
LeBron- 21
Stephenson- 10-11
Pick- 4 tops

What's that?
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40322
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:00 pm

Savory: Both cap (slightly north of 62M) and tax apron (slightly north of 75M) go up by 3.5M next season...not much, but it helps.

Kobe = 23.5
Bron = 22
Steph/Deng/2nd tier star = 10
1-5 Draft pick = ~ 5
= ~60

If Nash doesn't get traded, it will be tough once we use the stretch provision, but numbers wise it does work. If we can sell Bron on possibly Kobe and a draft pick and then waiting on Love or possibly using Nash's expiring next year in a trade to get Love's bird rights (Steph can no longer be part of that equation in this scenario), then we do have an outside shot at making this work.

Bron is working with Starz in making a loose rendition of him coming into the NBA, so we do have the "Hollywood" aspect to sell him on.

Edit: Real beat me to it...haha, but I agree with him, the money does work, but it will be tight.
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:03 pm

And by the way I'm incredibly tongue in cheek. I know the odds are not there, just saying they're not zero.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40322
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby charvin on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:13 pm

Weezy wrote:But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.


Can't you say the same for lifestyle and weather in LA? It'd be a lateral move for him for sure, IMO, going from Miami to LA (Wade alpha to Kobe alpha). Of course, he'd be going to a more competitive conference, but if Bosh continues to disappear in the playoffs (not exactly reliable when he only gives you a good game or two per series) and Wade breaking down more and more (inability to play back-to-back), I don't see him staying in Miami. Not to say he'd go to LA, but the chances of him leaving Miami aren't as low as expected.
charvin

 
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:53 pm

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Barnstable on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:18 pm

I'll be very happy when Bron signs a max multiyear contract somewhere else, so I never again have to read hopes and dreams that he ever plays in a Lakers uniform.
"league getting mitch-slapped"
User avatar
Barnstable
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 14305
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Queens NY

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:24 pm

charvin wrote:
Weezy wrote:But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.


Can't you say the same for lifestyle and weather in LA? It'd be a lateral move for him for sure, IMO, going from Miami to LA (Wade alpha to Kobe alpha). Of course, he'd be going to a more competitive conference, but if Bosh continues to disappear in the playoffs (not exactly reliable when he only gives you a good game or two per series) and Wade breaking down more and more (inability to play back-to-back), I don't see him staying in Miami. Not to say he'd go to LA, but the chances of him leaving Miami aren't as low as expected.


Yes the weather and lifestyle can be said to be similar in LA, not the state taxes though. I'm just saying I believe our roster would have to dramatically improve before LeBron came here. Even an inconsistent Bosh and breaking down Wade gives you a better shot at a title in the horrible East than anything we have now in this tough West. I have no idea where he ends up, but I would never put it past Riley to make some moves to improve that team enough to get him to stay there.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50866
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:41 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Savory: Both cap (slightly north of 62M) and tax apron (slightly north of 75M) go up by 3.5M next season...not much, but it helps.

Kobe = 23.5
Bron = 22
Steph/Deng/2nd tier star = 10
1-5 Draft pick = ~ 5
= ~60

If Nash doesn't get traded, it will be tough once we use the stretch provision, but numbers wise it does work. If we can sell Bron on possibly Kobe and a draft pick and then waiting on Love or possibly using Nash's expiring next year in a trade to get Love's bird rights (Steph can no longer be part of that equation in this scenario), then we do have an outside shot at making this work.

Bron is working with Starz in making a loose rendition of him coming into the NBA, so we do have the "Hollywood" aspect to sell him on.

Edit: Real beat me to it...haha, but I agree with him, the money does work, but it will be tight.


IIRC, there is also a cap hold on the remaining players to fill out the roster, i.e. minimum salary slots for what would be 8 players. Those, coupled with the stretch provision would put us over the projected cap number.

I could be wrong on those salary holds, but I could have swore you can't just sign like 2-3 dudes right up to the cap number, then go over the cap to sign 8-9 guys for vet minimums.

Once again, Kobe's idiotic contract comes back to bite us.
User avatar
Savory Griddles

 
Posts: 9048
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:56 am
Location: AV,CA

Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:53 pm

^^^Kobe's K hurts, no doubt.

Cap holds on min players are close to 1M, but since most of our free agents aren't 10+ season guys, their cap hit is less than 1M. Also compared to what the league's BRI and in particular, revenue sharing, the league will reimburse most of min salaries to the team. So for example 10 guys at 1M each as vet mins, will count to less than 5M in cap holds since the league handles most of their salary.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that we will keep most of our FAs. For example, Bron coming in most likely means Wes, Blake, Young, Meeks are out. Renouncing any player's rights also eliminates their cap holds...but I'm not sure we would want to do that to any min guy that we might need to round out the roster once we're finished with our FA shopping.

Lastly, stretching Nash comes out to about 3M. And a 10+ season max player for 2014/15 will be just south of 22M. Remember, all that matters is year 1 of the contract...if we lower it enough to make it fit within our salary constraints, said max player can easily make it up on the backend of his contract.

I think for the most part, we're all in agreement....chances are remote, but still possible...however it will be really tight.
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 13008
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

PreviousNext

Return to Lakers Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 16 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.