Free Agent Frenzy: Lakers Work Out Beasley (408)

Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby JGC on Mon May 21, 2012 7:52 am

Well, the overhaul will happen after next year. MWP will only be slower and another year older. So there are only 5 players I would keep...

Kobe (but only if he resigns for cheap), Drew, Sessions, Hill and call me crazy but Glock. I think Glock has a future in this league personally as an instant offense off the bench type guy.

I think the big question mark on Kobe is how much he will resign for. What if he wants a max type deal?
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby arizsha on Mon May 21, 2012 8:47 am

people who say kobe can be traded don't understand his value, lakers earn billions solely because of him. you don't sell your cash cow. even after he retired, lakers will still be benefited by his legacy. i bet the preciousness of kobe for jerry buss is only second to his own sons.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Jporkel on Mon May 21, 2012 9:01 am

arizsha wrote:people who say kobe can be traded don't understand his value, lakers earn billions solely because of him. you don't sell your cash cow. even after he retired, lakers will still be benefited by his legacy. i bet the preciousness of kobe for jerry buss is only second to his own sons.


I asked this question before and got no answer - do the Lakers, to the exclusion of the league, get profits from the sale of Kobe related gear? In other words, other than filling seats, how do the Lakers profit from Kobe?
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Doc Brown on Mon May 21, 2012 9:17 am

Jporkel wrote:
arizsha wrote:people who say kobe can be traded don't understand his value, lakers earn billions solely because of him. you don't sell your cash cow. even after he retired, lakers will still be benefited by his legacy. i bet the preciousness of kobe for jerry buss is only second to his own sons.


I asked this question before and got no answer - do the Lakers, to the exclusion of the league, get profits from the sale of Kobe related gear? In other words, other than filling seats, how do the Lakers profit from Kobe?


There was an article recently in ESPN the magazine talking about this very point. IIRC, star players are undervalued/paid compared to what they should be getting, just by their name alone attracting people to buy tickets, merchandise, etc.

Let me see if I can dig it up.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby trodgers on Mon May 21, 2012 9:19 am

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/01/23/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NBA-revenue.aspx

This article explains some of the things that are shared...so they count as revenue. Lakers make the most in terms of revenue. TV deals are included, for instance. If merchandise is shared, they get 50% of it, League splits the rest. So it seems that Kobe's being in LA does bring it more money in many ways.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Mon May 21, 2012 9:31 am

Not Mike Brown.

Please trade him for a HC whose IQ is greater than his shoe size.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby arizsha on Mon May 21, 2012 10:00 am

trodgers wrote:http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/01/23/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NBA-revenue.aspx

This article explains some of the things that are shared...so they count as revenue. Lakers make the most in terms of revenue. TV deals are included, for instance. If merchandise is shared, they get 50% of it, League splits the rest. So it seems that Kobe's being in LA does bring it more money in many ways.


thanks for the good share. here's another article, also worth a read. http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Kobe-Bryant-NBA-superstars-worth-more-than-market-value-to-David-Stern-league-owners-100611

to Jporkel, what i want to say is kobe is what makes the lakers stand out from other teams and has the best selling in terms of tickets, broadcasting contracts and merchandise. nba is entertainment, in marketing perspective, kobe is the total package. in the long run, people would take a 6 foot 6, good looking, capable, incredible skilled human being over some 7 foot something dominating monsters. and if you do care about the asia market, kobe is number 1 nba star in china, i believe other asia countries are the same circumstance.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon May 21, 2012 10:08 am

Again it's not the point ... it's not about how much Kobe deserves to make or how much the Lakers earn with the "Kobe brand" , it's about how bad his contract is hurting us and prevent us to improve the team when you take into consideration the salary cap rules ...
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby JUST-MING on Mon May 21, 2012 10:13 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Again it's not the point ... it's not about how much Kobe deserves to make or how much the Lakers earn with the "Kobe brand", it's about how bad his contract is hurting us and prevent us to improve the team when you take into consideration the salary cap rules ...

They just added two starters. Sessions and Hill for Walton and Fisher. Not bad for a contract that prevents them from improving. And they still have Gasol, and Bynum, and Artest. That damn contract...
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby XXIV on Mon May 21, 2012 10:21 am

JGC wrote:Well, the overhaul will happen after next year. MWP will only be slower and another year older. So there are only 5 players I would keep...
Kobe (but only if he resigns for cheap), Drew, Sessions, Hill and call me crazy but Glock. I think Glock has a future in this league personally as an instant offense off the bench type guy.

I think the big question mark on Kobe is how much he will resign for. What if he wants a max type deal?


He's already under contract for another two years. :man3:
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon May 21, 2012 10:45 am

JUST-MING wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:Again it's not the point ... it's not about how much Kobe deserves to make or how much the Lakers earn with the "Kobe brand", it's about how bad his contract is hurting us and prevent us to improve the team when you take into consideration the salary cap rules ...

They just added two starters. Sessions and Hill for Walton and Fisher. Not bad for a contract that prevents them from improving. And they still have Gasol, and Bynum, and Artest. That damn contract...


Hill isn't a starter on a championship caliber team , Sessions barely is ...and both were acquired through trades so I'm not sure what your point is ...
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby TIME on Mon May 21, 2012 11:27 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:
Hill isn't a starter on a championship caliber team , Sessions barely is ...and both were acquired through trades so I'm not sure what your point is ...


And how did you arrive at that conclusion? I suggest you take a look back through Lakers history alone at the PFs that we won championships with. Hill would be just fine starting on a championship team. Give me Bynum at center, Hill at PF, Kobe at SG, and a PG and SG that can defend and hit the open 3, and a solid bench and you have a good shot at a ring.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby easyguy on Mon May 21, 2012 11:44 am

TIME wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:
Hill isn't a starter on a championship caliber team , Sessions barely is ...and both were acquired through trades so I'm not sure what your point is ...


And how did you arrive at that conclusion? I suggest you take a look back through Lakers history alone at the PFs that we won championships with. Hill would be just fine starting on a championship team. Give me Bynum at center, Hill at PF, Kobe at SG, and a PG and SG that can defend and hit the open 3, and a solid bench and you have a good shot at a ring.



All the things you have listed are very hard to get done, Bynum and Kobe contracts alone will leave us with only a few more millions to pay another player. If you are depending on Kobe or Bynum to finish off big games in the playoffs we will be in trouble. This team need another super/megastar. Bynum at best is another David Robinson. Kobe right now is as best as a Ray Allen.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby XXIV on Mon May 21, 2012 11:47 am

easyguy wrote:
TIME wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:
Hill isn't a starter on a championship caliber team , Sessions barely is ...and both were acquired through trades so I'm not sure what your point is ...


And how did you arrive at that conclusion? I suggest you take a look back through Lakers history alone at the PFs that we won championships with. Hill would be just fine starting on a championship team. Give me Bynum at center, Hill at PF, Kobe at SG, and a PG and SG that can defend and hit the open 3, and a solid bench and you have a good shot at a ring.



All the things you have listed are very hard to get done, Bynum and Kobe contracts alone will leave us with only a few more millions to pay another player. If you are depending on Kobe or Bynum to finish off big games in the playoffs we will be in trouble. This team need another super/megastar. Bynum at best is another David Robinson. Kobe right now is as best as a Ray Allen.


Kobe is a lot better than Ray Allen. :man3:
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby JUST-MING on Mon May 21, 2012 11:52 am

TIME wrote:I suggest you take a look back through Lakers history alone at the PFs that we won championships with. Hill would be just fine starting on a championship team.

Happy Hairston, Jim Chones, Kurt Rambis, A.C. Green, Ho. Grant, Samaki Walker, Lamar Odom
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby easyguy on Mon May 21, 2012 11:57 am

If Ray forces up that many attempts A game, he would be scoring that much too.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby JUST-MING on Mon May 21, 2012 12:02 pm

XXIV wrote:
easyguy wrote:Kobe right now is as best as a Ray Allen.

Kobe is a lot better than Ray Allen.

Here is a list of players whom have averaged 28 Pts 5 Reb 4 Ast in the Playoffs.

  1. Michael Jordan (1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1997)

  2. Kobe Bryant (2001, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010)

  3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1970, 1972, 1974, 1977, 1979)

  4. Lebron James (2006, 2008, 2009, 2010) Tracy Mcgrady (2001, 2002, 2003, 2005) Oscar Robertson (1962, 1963, 1964, 1966) Jerry West (1962, 1965, 1966, 1968)

  5. Elgin Baylor (1961, 1963, 1968) Dwayne Wade (2006, 2009, 2010)

  6. Rick Barry (1975, 1977) Alex English (1984, 1985) Geroge Gervin (1980, 1982) Hakeem Olajuwon (1994, 1995)

  7. Mark Aguirre (1985) Rolando Blackman (1985) Vince Carter (2006) Wilt Chamberlain (1965) Billy Cunningham (1970) Adrian Dantley (1984) Earl Monroe (1969) Chris Mullin (1989) Dolph Schayes (1959) David Thompson (1979) Geroge Yardley (1957)
In red denotes a first round series only. Ray Allen ain’t on that list.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Rooscooter on Mon May 21, 2012 1:05 pm

^^Interesting list..... most of those seasons didn't result in Championships.....
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby JUST-MING on Mon May 21, 2012 1:07 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^Interesting list..... most of those seasons didn’t result in Championships.....

Prior to 1980 no player had ever won a championship while averaging 30 points.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Rooscooter on Mon May 21, 2012 1:17 pm

JUST-MING wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:^^Interesting list..... most of those seasons didn't result in Championships.....

Prior to 1980, no player had ever won a Finals series while averaging 30 points.

My point isn’t statistical milestone = championship, but rather Kobe Bryant is a lot better than Ray Allen.


I don't disagree..... but "better" is such a subjective term..... and stats are just that.... stats. I'd say Kobe is better, not because of stats.... rather results....
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Finwë on Mon May 21, 2012 2:09 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:^^Interesting list..... most of those seasons didn't result in Championships.....

Prior to 1980, no player had ever won a Finals series while averaging 30 points.

My point isn’t statistical milestone = championship, but rather Kobe Bryant is a lot better than Ray Allen.


I don't disagree..... but "better" is such a subjective term..... and stats are just that.... stats. I'd say Kobe is better, not because of stats.... rather results....

Rather plain observation and comparison. It's not really that puzzling.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby easyguy on Mon May 21, 2012 5:53 pm

At this point in Kobe career, we will be better utilizing him like Ray Allen by running through screens. I'm not saying Ray and Kobe is on the same plane, just at this stage in their career we need to use Kobe in other ways. He can no longer carry the team. We need to make Kobe the Scottie Pippen to KD or Lebron. :man9: I rather see Kobe play with Durant, Lebron is too much (the powder throwing crap)
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby 24K GOLD on Mon May 21, 2012 8:55 pm

After this game, I WOULD NOT keep Sessions. [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] that guy.

Kobe, Bynum, Hill and Artest are still the guys that I would keep.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby denimPortugal on Mon May 21, 2012 9:00 pm

All we need now is Keep KB and blow this team up!
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby khmrP on Mon May 21, 2012 9:01 pm

denimPortugal wrote:All we need now is Keep KB and blow this team up!


KB/MWP....EVERYONE else is up for grabs, every single last one of em.
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