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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:16 pm

You're right, TRD. We'll probably go after Stephenson more so than Deng. He's younger, less injury prone, and has more upside, IMO. He's primarily the PG in Indiana; he initiates the offense, can break down the defense, and has enough size/strength to finish inside.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:04 am

We already told you there were reports Luol Deng was dismayed at what he saw in Cleveland — as he should be. Of course, he came out and publicly denied this but what players say to the media when the mics are on and what they tell their friends are as different as what happened at your bachelor party and what you told your future wife had happened.

Now comes another report that Deng has surveyed the Cleveland situation seen a tire fire the size of the one in “The Simpsons” and decided will bolt this summer. This one is from the largely reliable Marc Stein of ESPN.

"And the general toxicity in the air around this team — where rumblings of player discontent with Mike Brown are getting louder by the day — makes you wonder if they have any hope of re-signing newly acquired (and shell-shocked) Luol Deng in free agency.

That’s right: What was supposed to be a season exciting enough to make LeBron James think seriously about leaving Miami to come back to the Cavs has descended into such farce that sources close to the situation are already saying that there’s little-to-no chance Deng will agree to stay once he hits free agency."


his was always the risk when Cleveland made the Deng trade, but then GM Chris Grant new owner Dan Gilbert wanted to make the playoffs and with his team floundering he made a move that was both bold and desperate.

Deng will have options this summer. Whether he has options at the money he expects to make remains to be seen (remember he reportedly rejected three years, $30 million from the Bulls) but he will have options.

And guys who have options don’t have to stay in situations where they are not happy.


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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:04 pm

Greg Monroe fans:

Monroe's agent, David Falk, is known to have taken a max-contract-or-no-deal stance last summer when an extension was not agreed upon between the two sides, and there were strong signs even before Monroe's production declined that Dumars didn't see him as a max player. Yet anyone who saw Falk's deft handling of the Roy Hibbert situation two summers ago should know better than to doubt his ability to find a max offer for Monroe in restricted free agency this summer: The Indiana Pacers had no plans of paying Hibbert max money, but the Portland Trail Blazers did to force Indiana to match. USA Today Sports - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.VWPDcAuA.dpuf

[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/02/07/a-to-z-trade-talks-selling-carmelo-anthony-kyrie-irving-rajon-rondo/5295879/
[/url]
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:46 pm

And with the first pick in the 2034 draft.......

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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:59 pm

lukewaltonsdad wrote:I tend to believe that Stephenson are pieces the Lakers are going to concentrate on; and as reported earlier, by Alex Kennedy, Deng is another player we may target...that's a positive. We need 2-way players in a very bad way. The only 'name' we're going after in the near future that is a realistic target is Love in 2015. After that, if Kevin Durant hasn't won a championship in OKC, I could see him heading out of town, and that's where things get interesting, IMO. Everybody will go after him; but if we have Love and a good core that's in need of a Durant to take the reigns and be that guy for us, he just might...we'll see, though. It's all predicated on Durant not winning a chip in OKC; if he does, he stays...


That's the key though right there. We need to have a solid core. Stephenson, Love and Exum/Smart would be a no brainer if Durant wanted to leave. Live in So. Cal, play for the best franchise in basketball with teammates that compliment your strengths. And its not out of the realm of possibility.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:40 pm

Not to be THAT Laker fan but...

LeBron isn't as far fetched right now as I thought it would be. If Bosh leaves and Wade continues looking like a shell of himself, then why would LeBron stay there? If the Lakers picked up a piece like Deng or Stephenson, Nash retired, and we drafted a young stud like Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid. Heck even Gordon would be an exciting piece. We would look about as inviting as anywhere else.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:17 pm

But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:21 pm

therealdeal wrote:Not to be THAT Laker fan but...

LeBron isn't as far fetched right now as I thought it would be. If Bosh leaves and Wade continues looking like a shell of himself, then why would LeBron stay there? If the Lakers picked up a piece like Deng or Stephenson, Nash retired, and we drafted a young stud like Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid. Heck even Gordon would be an exciting piece. We would look about as inviting as anywhere else.


We can't pick up both LBJ and Stephenson. Not enough space. LBJ would have to be enamored with our draft pick. Remember, Love plus Stephenson BARELY works under the cap.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:56 pm

Weezy wrote:But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.

I will leave the internet for the last 30 years of my life before the Clippers got LeBron. It's not happening.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:57 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Not to be THAT Laker fan but...

LeBron isn't as far fetched right now as I thought it would be. If Bosh leaves and Wade continues looking like a shell of himself, then why would LeBron stay there? If the Lakers picked up a piece like Deng or Stephenson, Nash retired, and we drafted a young stud like Exum, Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid. Heck even Gordon would be an exciting piece. We would look about as inviting as anywhere else.


We can't pick up both LBJ and Stephenson. Not enough space. LBJ would have to be enamored with our draft pick. Remember, Love plus Stephenson BARELY works under the cap.

Cap at 60 million.
Kobe- 23.5
LeBron- 21
Stephenson- 10-11
Pick- 4 tops

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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:00 pm

Savory: Both cap (slightly north of 62M) and tax apron (slightly north of 75M) go up by 3.5M next season...not much, but it helps.

Kobe = 23.5
Bron = 22
Steph/Deng/2nd tier star = 10
1-5 Draft pick = ~ 5
= ~60

If Nash doesn't get traded, it will be tough once we use the stretch provision, but numbers wise it does work. If we can sell Bron on possibly Kobe and a draft pick and then waiting on Love or possibly using Nash's expiring next year in a trade to get Love's bird rights (Steph can no longer be part of that equation in this scenario), then we do have an outside shot at making this work.

Bron is working with Starz in making a loose rendition of him coming into the NBA, so we do have the "Hollywood" aspect to sell him on.

Edit: Real beat me to it...haha, but I agree with him, the money does work, but it will be tight.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:03 pm

And by the way I'm incredibly tongue in cheek. I know the odds are not there, just saying they're not zero.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby charvin on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:13 pm

Weezy wrote:But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.


Can't you say the same for lifestyle and weather in LA? It'd be a lateral move for him for sure, IMO, going from Miami to LA (Wade alpha to Kobe alpha). Of course, he'd be going to a more competitive conference, but if Bosh continues to disappear in the playoffs (not exactly reliable when he only gives you a good game or two per series) and Wade breaking down more and more (inability to play back-to-back), I don't see him staying in Miami. Not to say he'd go to LA, but the chances of him leaving Miami aren't as low as expected.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Barnstable on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:18 pm

I'll be very happy when Bron signs a max multiyear contract somewhere else, so I never again have to read hopes and dreams that he ever plays in a Lakers uniform.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:24 pm

charvin wrote:
Weezy wrote:But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.


Can't you say the same for lifestyle and weather in LA? It'd be a lateral move for him for sure, IMO, going from Miami to LA (Wade alpha to Kobe alpha). Of course, he'd be going to a more competitive conference, but if Bosh continues to disappear in the playoffs (not exactly reliable when he only gives you a good game or two per series) and Wade breaking down more and more (inability to play back-to-back), I don't see him staying in Miami. Not to say he'd go to LA, but the chances of him leaving Miami aren't as low as expected.


Yes the weather and lifestyle can be said to be similar in LA, not the state taxes though. I'm just saying I believe our roster would have to dramatically improve before LeBron came here. Even an inconsistent Bosh and breaking down Wade gives you a better shot at a title in the horrible East than anything we have now in this tough West. I have no idea where he ends up, but I would never put it past Riley to make some moves to improve that team enough to get him to stay there.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:41 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Savory: Both cap (slightly north of 62M) and tax apron (slightly north of 75M) go up by 3.5M next season...not much, but it helps.

Kobe = 23.5
Bron = 22
Steph/Deng/2nd tier star = 10
1-5 Draft pick = ~ 5
= ~60

If Nash doesn't get traded, it will be tough once we use the stretch provision, but numbers wise it does work. If we can sell Bron on possibly Kobe and a draft pick and then waiting on Love or possibly using Nash's expiring next year in a trade to get Love's bird rights (Steph can no longer be part of that equation in this scenario), then we do have an outside shot at making this work.

Bron is working with Starz in making a loose rendition of him coming into the NBA, so we do have the "Hollywood" aspect to sell him on.

Edit: Real beat me to it...haha, but I agree with him, the money does work, but it will be tight.


IIRC, there is also a cap hold on the remaining players to fill out the roster, i.e. minimum salary slots for what would be 8 players. Those, coupled with the stretch provision would put us over the projected cap number.

I could be wrong on those salary holds, but I could have swore you can't just sign like 2-3 dudes right up to the cap number, then go over the cap to sign 8-9 guys for vet minimums.

Once again, Kobe's idiotic contract comes back to bite us.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:53 pm

^^^Kobe's K hurts, no doubt.

Cap holds on min players are close to 1M, but since most of our free agents aren't 10+ season guys, their cap hit is less than 1M. Also compared to what the league's BRI and in particular, revenue sharing, the league will reimburse most of min salaries to the team. So for example 10 guys at 1M each as vet mins, will count to less than 5M in cap holds since the league handles most of their salary.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that we will keep most of our FAs. For example, Bron coming in most likely means Wes, Blake, Young, Meeks are out. Renouncing any player's rights also eliminates their cap holds...but I'm not sure we would want to do that to any min guy that we might need to round out the roster once we're finished with our FA shopping.

Lastly, stretching Nash comes out to about 3M. And a 10+ season max player for 2014/15 will be just south of 22M. Remember, all that matters is year 1 of the contract...if we lower it enough to make it fit within our salary constraints, said max player can easily make it up on the backend of his contract.

I think for the most part, we're all in agreement....chances are remote, but still possible...however it will be really tight.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:53 pm

This is under the assumption that Nash retires and his salary is waived.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby charvin on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:01 pm

Weezy wrote:
charvin wrote:
Weezy wrote:But let's be real, does LeBron want to play "who is alpha dog" with Kobe for 2 seasons? I think the Clippers in a sign and trade for Griffin looks more appealing than the Lakers. He gets to play with his little buddy CP3, and possibly take the franchise to its first title ever. Personally thought I think he's not leaving Miami, I think Riley will make some moves to keep them competitive, I would imagine plenty of good players want to go play in Miami for many, many reasons (LeBron, winning, lifestyle, weather, no state taxes). Biggest question I guess is what to do with Wade, which yeah, could be the one major hurdle that makes LeBron leave.


Can't you say the same for lifestyle and weather in LA? It'd be a lateral move for him for sure, IMO, going from Miami to LA (Wade alpha to Kobe alpha). Of course, he'd be going to a more competitive conference, but if Bosh continues to disappear in the playoffs (not exactly reliable when he only gives you a good game or two per series) and Wade breaking down more and more (inability to play back-to-back), I don't see him staying in Miami. Not to say he'd go to LA, but the chances of him leaving Miami aren't as low as expected.


Yes the weather and lifestyle can be said to be similar in LA, not the state taxes though. I'm just saying I believe our roster would have to dramatically improve before LeBron came here. Even an inconsistent Bosh and breaking down Wade gives you a better shot at a title in the horrible East than anything we have now in this tough West. I have no idea where he ends up, but I would never put it past Riley to make some moves to improve that team enough to get him to stay there.


No doubt, I left out state taxes and winning because the Lakers don't provide that (currently for the winning part). It'll be interesting, to say the least, to see what Riley can do with this new CBA. The core was constructed under the old CBA and role players took a big pay cut to join them under the new CBA rules. If he is still able to field an ultra competitive team with this CBA's restrictions, then hands down, LBJ isn't going anywhere.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:11 pm

The Washington Wizards and Indiana Pacers have been actively shopping the expiring contracts of Trevor Ariza and Danny Granger, respectively, according to sources.

But expiring contracts do not have nearly the same level of value they have in the past.

For the Pacers, they would likely only want another expiring contract in return for Granger due to their tax concerns in re-signing Lance Stephenson this offseason.

Via Zach Lowe/Grantland


Not sure how we come close enough matching Granger's 14M expiring without making it part of a Pau trade.. But I've wanted Granger on this team for a long time..
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby trodgers on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:35 pm

Would you want Granger on this team at $14M though?
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:08 pm

trodgers wrote:Would you want Granger on this team at $14M though?

He's expiring & shouldn't see offers anywhere near that with the last 2 seasons he's had.. We would hopefully be able to lock him in this summer at a steep discount. An underpaid fringe allstar(if he returns to form) & a high pick on a rookie contract would be a good way to offset Kobe's contract & give us a chance to sign a guy like Love & compete.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby karacha on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:28 pm

trodgers wrote:Would you want Granger on this team at $14M though?


I don't think anyone would want that -- but Granger isn't going to get 14M anymore. He'd be a good fit. Him or Deng. Kobe needs to get 100% healthy, and having a decent two way player on the wing can only help him; keep few of our young guys, like Marshall, Farmar, Swaggy. Draft well, see if we can get another legitimate star player, and the Lakers are back. It might take a year or two, but it's doable. So, Granger - or a similar player - would be a good start.

What can we offer for him in terms of salary match?
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby trodgers on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:33 pm

I see - I simply misread an earlier post.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:49 pm

karacha wrote:
trodgers wrote:Would you want Granger on this team at $14M though?



What can we offer for him in terms of salary match?

They would have to either want Pau, or get an expiring piece from a 3rd team that wants Pau or Nash.. If they will truly only take expiring deals & we can't make it part of a Pau or Nash trade, it would be nearly impossible.. Blake + Kaman + Hill's expiring deals would still leave us 568k short of being within 125% of Granger's salary & making the deal work.
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