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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu May 01, 2014 8:32 am

Doc Brown wrote:I always loved the Lakers playing Utah, with Boozer on the team, in the playoffs. Such an easy matchup.


Boozer and Okur were playing some serious MDA lockdown defense together ... their better way to protect the paint was to foul the opponent
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 01, 2014 8:58 am

LakersN4 wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:You lost me completely when you mentioned the Lakers should or could take on Boozer. I do not want him at all in any scenario

If it looks likely that Melo will either stay in NY or go to Chi, there's nothing worth spending on in free agency this year.. My point was to use our cap space to take on Boozer along with Gibson to stay competitive next season.. Then Boozer comes off the books, we added Gibson to our core, & we still have cap space to go after Love, LMA, Rondo, or any of the other 2015 FA's.

Have you honestly gone on google and learned for the list of free agents for 2014? I thought you will be surprised just how much good talent is still out there outside of the superstars.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Thu May 01, 2014 1:13 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:You lost me completely when you mentioned the Lakers should or could take on Boozer. I do not want him at all in any scenario

If it looks likely that Melo will either stay in NY or go to Chi, there's nothing worth spending on in free agency this year.. My point was to use our cap space to take on Boozer along with Gibson to stay competitive next season.. Then Boozer comes off the books, we added Gibson to our core, & we still have cap space to go after Love, LMA, Rondo, or any of the other 2015 FA's.

Have you honestly gone on google and learned for the list of free agents for 2014? I thought you will be surprised just how much good talent is still out there outside of the superstars.

Unless we can get Lebron or Melo, there's noone worth spending on.. Monroe isn't worth the 13.7M it will take to have the winning bid for him.. Bledsoe might be worth near the max but if we draft Exum, that'd be a waste, & he's also injury prone. If Stephenson is still going to get offers in the 12M range as projected earlier in the season, that's way too big of a risk to take on a 4th option. Lowry same thing with drafting Exum, might end up redundant.. Deng is 1 of the only guys out there in that 2nd tier that would be a good signing but if we end up drafting or trading for a wing, that changes everything.. & also if he's still wanting 12M a season that's too much.. Gortat could be a good signing if it's at or under 10M but he'll probably get more than that.. Not a great summer to have cap space.

Next summer you have Kevin Love, Lamarcus Aldridge, Rajon Rondo, Marc Gasol & Lebron is more likely to save his opt out for 2015 when Wade will be another year older. Good restricted guys like Kyrie, Leonard, Kanter, Tobias Harris, Vucevic, Klay Thompson, Rubio, Jimmy Butler, Faried, Kemba Walker.. & then a bunch of good 2nd tier unrestricted guys like Dragic (likely to opt out of a 7M player option & lock in a bigger longer deal), Millsap, Asik, Z-Bo, Varejau, Lin, Deandre Jordan, Wes Matthews.. I'd much rather have cap space next season than this unless we can get Melo.. That class is extremely deep.

We go into next offseason with a ton of options.. If we strike out on the top 5 players & get into the territory of overpaying RFA's I'd much rather it be guys like Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson than Bledsoe/Monroe.. If you miss out on Love/LMA/Marc then you try to land Asik or Jordan.

Assuming we get extremely lucky & draft exum:

Exum
Kobe
Leonard or Thompson
Gibson
Asik or Jordan

All of a sudden our horrible defensive team is 1 of the best in the league.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:09 pm

^ I was talking more of the likes of Stephenson, Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Lowry, Hawes, Dirk, Stuckey, Granger, Zach Randoph (player option)

A lot of great role players that can often be the difference between contenders and non contenders
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:27 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:^ I was talking more of the likes of Stephenson, Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Lowry, Hawes, Dirk, Stuckey, Granger, Zach Randoph (player option)

A lot of great role players that can often be the difference between contenders and non contenders

The problem is besides Ariza, Stuckey, & possibly Granger, they're all going to be seeking offers starting north of 10M.. If we're going to spend that on players that aren't stars, I'd rather wait until next summer when Leonard/Thompson & Asik/Jordan can be the guys we offer the same amount of money to.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:30 pm

LakersN4 wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:^ I was talking more of the likes of Stephenson, Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Lowry, Hawes, Dirk, Stuckey, Granger, Zach Randoph (player option)

A lot of great role players that can often be the difference between contenders and non contenders

The problem is besides Ariza, Stuckey, & possibly Granger, they're all going to be seeking offers starting north of 10M.. If we're going to spend that on players that aren't stars, I'd rather wait until next summer when Leonard/Thompson & Asik/Jordan can be the guys we offer the same amount of money to.


Fair enough. It's all going to come down to really what the market value will be with some of these players as Mitch allooted to in his Exit interview press conference with the media.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby MMJ on Thu May 01, 2014 5:43 pm

Here's a question. If Indiana gets bounced in the first round and Hibbert doesn't return there would you want him here as a "defensive stopper" at a less price? Because being a defender would be his only job here. Would you take him in the 8-10m range?


I wouldn't "mind" Hibbert but I wouldn't overpay him and his job would only be that of a defensive stopper and nothing more or less.

But in terms of who to sign... unless we landed LeBron we won't be a 'title contender' in that 2 year span unless we do multiple things and hit several homeruns.

It will start with our draft pick and whom we pick as our coach.

In terms of roster improvement we can bring back the bulk of guys we had this year for the most part as role players

Meeks
Young
Ryan Kelly
Kendall Marshall
Kent Bazemore

Are all guys that should return.

Farmar is replaceable, as is Wes Johnson though I wouldn't quit on him just yet, and I think Xavier Henry deserves a camp invite.


But if you bring back Young, Meeks, Bazemore, Kelly, Marshall

You have your deep bench that was needed.

The other guy we need to bring back is Jordan Hill.

So bring back those 6. Lucky for us Meeks and Hill's contracts don't count against the cap as we have bird's rights on them and it eats into a 17 million dollar cushion that would keep us beneath the luxury tax. So re-signing them isn't an issue money wise nor cap wise.


So my bring backs are

Kendall Marshall
Nick Young
Jodie Meeks
Kent Bazemore
Ryan Kelly
Jordan Hill

Those 6 guys are brought back and then we can start working on other people to strengthen the other spots that are open.

At that point it's about the draft. If we draft Exum or Smart we can enter free agency not having to go after a point guard like Lowry. If we got Embiid...we'd likely need to get another backup center too just in case because of Embiid's knee problems and back problems. If we got Wiggins or Jabari we wouldn't need to bring back Xavier or Wesley.

So that's basically the perspective we'll be approaching it from. Draft day is what will determine everything else but the necessity is that we bring back the role players that panned out this year otherwise it was all for naught.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby bigdog2013 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:57 pm

bring back
Farmer
Young
Meeks
Bazemore
Kelly
Hill
Kamen
Johnson if we can get him for the minimum
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri May 02, 2014 2:20 am

Battle Tested20 wrote:^ I was talking more of the likes of Stephenson, Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Lowry, Hawes, Dirk, Stuckey, Granger, Zach Randoph (player option)

A lot of great role players that can often be the difference between contenders and non contenders


Granger is done ... Deng is about to be on the downside of his career and will ask both too much money and years for his next contract
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby halekulani on Fri May 02, 2014 7:23 am

Battle Tested20 wrote:You lost me completely when you mentioned the Lakers should or could take on Boozer. I do not want him at all in any scenario

qft
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Center Court on Fri May 02, 2014 11:58 am

IF we are 100% committed to keeping cap space for next season, I'd be into a deal like this.

TPE for Boozer, 16th + 19th picks.

Chicago really wants Melo, this trade allows them to do that. We get a veteran player who can IMO be a good role player still. Let him and Nash expire next season then go for Love. In 2016 let Kobe and Pau (resigned on 2 year deal) expire and go all in for Durant.

2014: High Lotto Pick (Exum) + 16 (Lavine) + 19 (Early) , Coach (Who knows), Core of Bench (Young, Hill, Baze, Farmar, X)
2015: Love
2016: Durant
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri May 02, 2014 12:41 pm

Center Court wrote:IF we are 100% committed to keeping cap space for next season, I'd be into a deal like this.

TPE for Boozer, 16th + 19th picks.

Chicago really wants Melo, this trade allows them to do that. We get a veteran player who can IMO be a good role player still. Let him and Nash expire next season then go for Love. In 2016 let Kobe and Pau (resigned on 2 year deal) expire and go all in for Durant.

2014: High Lotto Pick (Exum) + 16 (Lavine) + 19 (Early) , Coach (Who knows), Core of Bench (Young, Hill, Baze, Farmar, X)
2015: Love
2016: Durant


Actually, they'd want us to take other players I'd think since they can amnesty Boozer. They'd likely want us to take Taj Gibson since he can't be amnestied. They are at 65 million right now and need to get down to roughly 44. Boozer amnestied at 16 with Gibson coming to us gets it done. If we took Jimmy Butler and Dunleavy off their hands, it'd be too close I think.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby halekulani on Fri May 02, 2014 1:14 pm

Center Court wrote:IF we are 100% committed to keeping cap space for next season, I'd be into a deal like this.

TPE for Boozer, 16th + 19th picks.

Chicago really wants Melo, this trade allows them to do that. We get a veteran player who can IMO be a good role player still. Let him and Nash expire next season then go for Love. In 2016 let Kobe and Pau (resigned on 2 year deal) expire and go all in for Durant.

2014: High Lotto Pick (Exum) + 16 (Lavine) + 19 (Early) , Coach (Who knows), Core of Bench (Young, Hill, Baze, Farmar, X)

could you really get boozer, 16th, and 19th for TPE? that seems too good to be true.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri May 02, 2014 1:19 pm

halekulani wrote:
Center Court wrote:IF we are 100% committed to keeping cap space for next season, I'd be into a deal like this.

TPE for Boozer, 16th + 19th picks.

Chicago really wants Melo, this trade allows them to do that. We get a veteran player who can IMO be a good role player still. Let him and Nash expire next season then go for Love. In 2016 let Kobe and Pau (resigned on 2 year deal) expire and go all in for Durant.

2014: High Lotto Pick (Exum) + 16 (Lavine) + 19 (Early) , Coach (Who knows), Core of Bench (Young, Hill, Baze, Farmar, X)

could you really get boozer, 16th, and 19th for TPE? that seems too good to be true.


That scenario would probably be in the same talks to getting Thibs. However, we are not giving up our lottery pick. And we're are the 16th and 19th picks coming from?

In this case, we would trade a future draft pick from a nonconsecutive year. Out 2015 and 17 are already gone, so the next one would be 2019.

Boozer + 2019 First Round for Thibs + TPE.

However, why would Melo want to go to Chicago if Thibs is gonna leave?
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Center Court on Fri May 02, 2014 5:31 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
halekulani wrote:
Center Court wrote:IF we are 100% committed to keeping cap space for next season, I'd be into a deal like this.

TPE for Boozer, 16th + 19th picks.

Chicago really wants Melo, this trade allows them to do that. We get a veteran player who can IMO be a good role player still. Let him and Nash expire next season then go for Love. In 2016 let Kobe and Pau (resigned on 2 year deal) expire and go all in for Durant.

2014: High Lotto Pick (Exum) + 16 (Lavine) + 19 (Early) , Coach (Who knows), Core of Bench (Young, Hill, Baze, Farmar, X)

could you really get boozer, 16th, and 19th for TPE? that seems too good to be true.


That scenario would probably be in the same talks to getting Thibs. However, we are not giving up our lottery pick. And we're are the 16th and 19th picks coming from?

In this case, we would trade a future draft pick from a nonconsecutive year. Out 2015 and 17 are already gone, so the next one would be 2019.

Boozer + 2019 First Round for Thibs + TPE.

However, why would Melo want to go to Chicago if Thibs is gonna leave?


He would not and that's why I excluded Thibs from the discussion. It's really a Boozer + picks (16, 19) for TPE to help them free up the space necessary to sign Melo.

My suggestion only holds weight if we have NO desire to sign anything significant contracts.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri May 02, 2014 6:22 pm

Center Court wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
halekulani wrote:
Center Court wrote:IF we are 100% committed to keeping cap space for next season, I'd be into a deal like this.

TPE for Boozer, 16th + 19th picks.

Chicago really wants Melo, this trade allows them to do that. We get a veteran player who can IMO be a good role player still. Let him and Nash expire next season then go for Love. In 2016 let Kobe and Pau (resigned on 2 year deal) expire and go all in for Durant.

2014: High Lotto Pick (Exum) + 16 (Lavine) + 19 (Early) , Coach (Who knows), Core of Bench (Young, Hill, Baze, Farmar, X)

could you really get boozer, 16th, and 19th for TPE? that seems too good to be true.


That scenario would probably be in the same talks to getting Thibs. However, we are not giving up our lottery pick. And we're are the 16th and 19th picks coming from?

In this case, we would trade a future draft pick from a nonconsecutive year. Out 2015 and 17 are already gone, so the next one would be 2019.

Boozer + 2019 First Round for Thibs + TPE.

However, why would Melo want to go to Chicago if Thibs is gonna leave?


He would not and that's why I excluded Thibs from the discussion. It's really a Boozer + picks (16, 19) for TPE to help them free up the space necessary to sign Melo.

My suggestion only holds weight if we have NO desire to sign anything significant contracts.


Like I said. More likely they try to dump Jimmy Butler AND Dunleavy OR Taj Gibson. Boozer they can amnesty. The other three they can't. Makes more sense for them to try to dump the other guys. I'd absorb their 16th Dunleavy and Jimmy Butler. Wouldn't take Taj though. He has 3 or 4 years left on that deal.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Center Court on Fri May 02, 2014 7:29 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
Center Court wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
halekulani wrote:
Center Court wrote:IF we are 100% committed to keeping cap space for next season, I'd be into a deal like this.

TPE for Boozer, 16th + 19th picks.

Chicago really wants Melo, this trade allows them to do that. We get a veteran player who can IMO be a good role player still. Let him and Nash expire next season then go for Love. In 2016 let Kobe and Pau (resigned on 2 year deal) expire and go all in for Durant.

2014: High Lotto Pick (Exum) + 16 (Lavine) + 19 (Early) , Coach (Who knows), Core of Bench (Young, Hill, Baze, Farmar, X)

could you really get boozer, 16th, and 19th for TPE? that seems too good to be true.


That scenario would probably be in the same talks to getting Thibs. However, we are not giving up our lottery pick. And we're are the 16th and 19th picks coming from?

In this case, we would trade a future draft pick from a nonconsecutive year. Out 2015 and 17 are already gone, so the next one would be 2019.

Boozer + 2019 First Round for Thibs + TPE.

However, why would Melo want to go to Chicago if Thibs is gonna leave?


He would not and that's why I excluded Thibs from the discussion. It's really a Boozer + picks (16, 19) for TPE to help them free up the space necessary to sign Melo.

My suggestion only holds weight if we have NO desire to sign anything significant contracts.


Like I said. More likely they try to dump Jimmy Butler AND Dunleavy OR Taj Gibson. Boozer they can amnesty. The other three they can't. Makes more sense for them to try to dump the other guys. I'd absorb their 16th Dunleavy and Jimmy Butler. Wouldn't take Taj though. He has 3 or 4 years left on that deal.


They've very recently stated they do not want to amnesty Boozer and much rather trade him. While nit would not count against the cap to amnesty him, they would certainly be paying him (and watching him go play for another team). Butler is a nice piece they seem to be high on... Rose/Butler/Melo is the perimeter they envision

Taj is a nice piece but no way we'd take him on with his 4 year 33MM contract (though we were rumored to be interested at the deadline).

I'm just saying, they will have to move Boozer and I guess you're adding Dunleavy or Taj. So we can take Boozer and let someone else who wants a shooter take Dunleavy. Our goal being to maximize this draft by obtaining picks.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri May 02, 2014 7:51 pm

No way they are giving up Jimmy Butler.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Pig Miller on Fri May 02, 2014 8:43 pm

Doc Brown wrote:No way they are giving up Jimmy Butler.



Pretty much.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Pig Miller on Sat May 03, 2014 7:28 am

Why Wouldn't Chicago just amnesty boozer? No reason to trade 2 picks just to b get him off the books. Your boozer scenario sounds really far fetched
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Sat May 03, 2014 9:55 am

Pig Miller wrote:Why Wouldn't Chicago just amnesty boozer? No reason to trade 2 picks just to b get him off the books. Your boozer scenario sounds really far fetched

Their owner is cheap & doesn't want to pay Boozer 15M to play somewhere else.. It's been reported that they will try hard to trade him..

While they might not be willing to part with both of those picks, they might include Gibson who they'll need to dump also. We might even be able to get 1 of the picks depending on the other offers they see.. We'd be taking on a TON of salary for them.. Boozer's 16.8M, 3 years of Taj at 3 yrs/25M..

I don't think Gibson has enough positive value to offset eating Boozer's contract. It would have to be a guy performing on their rookie contract like Butler if they don't want to give up any picks, & as others have stated, they aren't giving up Butler.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby OX1947 on Sat May 03, 2014 5:47 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:I always loved the Lakers playing Utah, with Boozer on the team, in the playoffs. Such an easy matchup.


Boozer and Okur were playing some serious MDA lockdown defense together ... their better way to protect the paint was to foul the opponent


Okur hardly ever played. He was always injured.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby OX1947 on Sat May 03, 2014 5:50 pm

If they took nash and gave the lakers one 1st rounder, I would do it. At least Boozer would contribute and get rid of 10 game a year Nash and have and get their 2015 1st rounder back. I think that is a fair deal. Reinscheap saves 6 million and rid themselves of Boozer, Lakers rid themselves of Nash and they save themselves from the Nash debacle buy getting one of their draft picks back.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Sat May 03, 2014 6:16 pm

OX1947 wrote:If they took nash and gave the lakers one 1st rounder, I would do it. At least Boozer would contribute and get rid of 10 game a year Nash and have and get their 2015 1st rounder back. I think that is a fair deal. Reinscheap saves 6 million and rid themselves of Boozer, Lakers rid themselves of Nash and they save themselves from the Nash debacle buy getting one of their draft picks back.
I don't think there's any chance of them taking on Nash or any other contract near the size of Gibson's. If anything they would be asking us to take on more salary, they definitely aren't interested in taking contracts back.. They could dump Boozer's contract completely & still not have the $ to make Melo an offer near his max.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sat May 03, 2014 6:42 pm

The whole point is that they want to shed salary to clear room for Carmelo. They aren't going to take any contract back.
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