Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby Sunny on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:23 am

Is it true that Gary Vitti petitioned for Kobe Bryant to be taken out/rested during the game, and D'antoni declined? Did someone hear or report that, or was this heard on the telecast? I've read this scenario a few times by multiple posters since last night, but is this actually true?
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby DarthRekal on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:25 am

speculation... Vitti was seen talking with MDA on the sidelines.. what was said is not known yet
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:39 am

I read his lips. He was saying WTF are you doing you moron get him out of the game so we can check him.

OK not true I can't read lips. Didn't see it myself. Either Stu or Billy mentioned on air. Knowing what his job is and how much pain Kobe was in at first after coming down straight on the knee and hyper extending it, not hard to imagine that is what Gary would be suggesting. Don't recall if it was after that or the 2nd time something went wrong and he hobbled bent over to mid court.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby LakeShow09 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:07 am

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You be the judge.. looks pretty pissed to me!!!
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby gill on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:57 am

Didn't that happen right after the 2nd injury? if that's the case, I don't see no reason why Vitti would stand up and approach Pringles if not to take Kobe out.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby trodgers on Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:00 am

It might've been clearer on radio - I can't remember whether this was after the first or the second injury, but I THINK it was the first. Vitti stood at the scorer's table waiting for Kobe, but Kobe was refusing to look over at the bench. No doubt Vitti wanted to have a chance to look at him.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby lakersyunowin on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:12 pm

just even having vitti look at him for the 30-60 seconds might have prevented the achilles injury. we'll never know...

i was so pissed when i saw vitti up and d'antoni not doing anything about it.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby JLaker17 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:28 pm

We probably will never know, but when that 2nd injury happened to Kobe, I really don't think many coaches in the league would of left him in.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:34 pm

You don't prevent achilles injuries. You can blow it out taking a misstep on the stairs. It's just a freak injury that thankfully doesn't happen more often.

Much like the Kevin Ware broken leg accident, he landed at the perfect angle to where the body was stressed past the point of it's capabilities. Kobe took a step back without contact and it was at the perfect angle where the body was overstressed at that point in this body.

Vitti doing a test on his knee or ankle, only to send him out 5 minutes later.....

Kobe still has the same chance of blowing his achilles out.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby lakersyunowin on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:46 pm

Doc Brown wrote:You don't prevent achilles injuries. You can blow it out taking a misstep on the stairs. It's just a freak injury that thankfully doesn't happen more often.

Much like the Kevin Ware broken leg accident, he landed at the perfect angle to where the body was stressed past the point of it's capabilities. Kobe took a step back without contact and it was at the perfect angle where the body was overstressed at that point in this body.

Vitti doing a test on his knee or ankle, only to send him out 5 minutes later.....

Kobe still has the same chance of blowing his achilles out.

yes but as a time traveler you should know that any alteration of past events could have serious consequences on the future
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby EQualizer on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:49 pm

What makes you think D'antoni didn't want to pull him out? For all we know the increased minutes could be Kobe asking for it and not many coaches exist in the league are willing to deal with an upset Kobe because you aren't playing him when he wants to be out there on the court.

Also are any of you guys doctors? Why do you think the achilles tear could have been prevented just by limiting his minutes? It may seem logical but a lot of times things aren't apparent why it occurs and the risk factors for a tendon rupture are still muddled to this day. A ruptured tendon isn't like osteoarthritis or something similar where it is due to chronic overuse.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby Cleansed on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:52 pm

Doc Brown wrote:You don't prevent achilles injuries. You can blow it out taking a misstep on the stairs. It's just a freak injury that thankfully doesn't happen more often.

Much like the Kevin Ware broken leg accident, he landed at the perfect angle to where the body was stressed past the point of it's capabilities. Kobe took a step back without contact and it was at the perfect angle where the body was overstressed at that point in this body.

Vitti doing a test on his knee or ankle, only to send him out 5 minutes later.....

Kobe still has the same chance of blowing his achilles out.


Yep.

You NEVER see it coming.

EVER.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby lakersyunowin on Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:05 pm

goshdern wonky forums got rid of my post.

anyways, TLDR version: overuse can definitely be a contributing factor to achilles tears. add to that the fact he already injured that leg (well both legs) earlier in the game, and you have injuries that potentially alter the load and stress on other parts of the body. it might not make it less of an accident, but there were contributing factors.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:58 pm

^^^ I was responding to your original post that said was referring to pulling Kobe out and the injury being prevented. He could have sat for 5 minutes, have Vitti check out his knee and send him back out there.....

Still the same chance of him blowing out his achilles whether he sat for 5 minutes, 10 minutes or kept playing.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby Weezy on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:04 pm

As mad as I was about him being sent back out after the 2nd injury, this seemingly was gonna happen no matter what, from being played too much all season, not just the past few games. So if it didn't happen last night who's to say it doesn't against SA or Houston or in the playoffs.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:07 pm

ESPNLA 710 Radio ‏@ESPNLA710 31m
Kobe's trainer-->MT @ATTACKATHLETICS: Kobe's injury was not about minutes, he's conditioned to play 48. An Achilles can just go
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:33 pm

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA 33m
…recent minutes, fatigue or unrelated injuries likely played no role in Kobe's case. 2/2
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Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA 33m
Just off phone with Donald Rose, former Sixers doctor, longtime surgeon to athletes of all kinds. Says Achilles is freak occurrence... (1/2)
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:35 pm

next week on backstage lakers
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:36 pm

Doc Brown wrote:You don't prevent achilles injuries. You can blow it out taking a misstep on the stairs. It's just a freak injury that thankfully doesn't happen more often.

Much like the Kevin Ware broken leg accident, he landed at the perfect angle to where the body was stressed past the point of it's capabilities. Kobe took a step back without contact and it was at the perfect angle where the body was overstressed at that point in this body.

Vitti doing a test on his knee or ankle, only to send him out 5 minutes later.....

Kobe still has the same chance of blowing his achilles out.

this
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby last stand on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:51 pm

an achilles can just blow, it can also be on the verge of blowing by being weakened for whatever reason

having said that if it was ready to go, sitting 5 minutes and going back in wouldn't have changed anything.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby trodgers on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:58 pm

I'm pretty sure that an Achilles does NOT just blow. It's so ridiculously strong that it tears only after extreme, repeated abuse. So it may be true that nothing Vitti could've done, but they don't "just go" in one really important sense.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby last stand on Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:02 pm

trodgers wrote:I'm pretty sure that an Achilles does NOT just blow. It's so ridiculously strong that it tears only after extreme, repeated abuse. So it may be true that nothing Vitti could've done, but they don't "just go" in one really important sense.


exactly. though 5 minutes of rest in this game wouldn't have prevented it from going. it would have taken a week of rest or more. and that is all under the assumption that he knew it was ready to go. which he wouldn't
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby TIME on Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:06 pm

I did some reading this morning on a few medical websites about 3rd degree ruptures. The experts in this particular injury do indicate that it can occur unrelated to any other factors, but it is not necessarily a "freak" injury like many here are insisting. They describe how prior wear and tear of that tendon producing a series of micro-tears can make the tendon far more vulnerable to full rupture. They also mentioned that prior knee and ankle injuries can contribute to the tendon's vulnerability by placing it in higher stress as the body adjusts to compensate for the weakness of the other injuries.

To me, it is an interesting scenario. Kobe's recent ankle sprain, flare up of the bone spur, and knee hyper-extension may have set him up for the Achilles in a completely un-freakish way.

However, Kobe bears responsibility in this too. He essentially trained the coaches, training staff, and fans to expect him to be the iron man who plays through all pains. In my opinion MDA should have taken him out after the first knee injury earlier in the game and sat him the rest of the game until they were able to do a full exam. But Kobe would have tried to refuse to come out and play through it even if MDA tried to take him out. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby lakersyunowin on Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:20 pm

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ I was responding to your original post that said was referring to pulling Kobe out and the injury being prevented. He could have sat for 5 minutes, have Vitti check out his knee and send him back out there.....

Still the same chance of him blowing out his achilles whether he sat for 5 minutes, 10 minutes or kept playing.

yea you could be right about that. i was posting in more of a couldashouldawoulda frame of mind. had he been pulled out, circumstances change and maybe he wouldn't have later gone off his ankle in that exact way that caused it to rupture. i'm just in the denial stage of my grief.

really though, that thing was already a ticking time bomb due to the overuse and repeated injury:
TIME wrote:To me, it is an interesting scenario. Kobe's recent ankle sprain, flare up of the bone spur, and knee hyper-extension may have set him up for the Achilles in a completely un-freakish way.
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Re: Gary Vitti - did he try to get Kobe pulled?

Postby last stand on Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:21 pm

very true, and as fans we wouldn't have known kobe's achilles was ready to give out so all we would have seen was the probable loss and the resulting anger towards dantoni for pulling kobe
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