God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby chahal-24 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:31 pm

i hate sportescentre .. all they talk about is stupid baseball
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:57 pm

I love how Kobe continues to mess up there perfect little ESPN world by being better than the hype machine
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby L4L on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:01 pm

CL is hypersensitive to anything approach positive 'Bron exposure.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Weezy on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:06 pm

L4L wrote:CL is hypersensitive to anything approach positive 'Bron exposure.


Is it that? Or is it ESPN's constant comparison of LeBron and Kobe, trying to find any way to say that LeBron is better? You can't honestly say that ESPN isn't LeBron biased, it's clear as day. Whenever they show Cavs highlights it's 95% LeBron, and yeah he's a highlight reel, but there are other players on the team.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby blakeruns on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:06 pm

L4L, youre right as it pertains to many people here, yes.

but some of us are more levelheaded, and we only get irked when Kobe is put down at the same time, for seemingly no rational reason other than for them to say LBJ>Kobe

i really dont care about most of this. its more humorous to me than anything. Particularly the way people say how much they hate "BSPN" but then still give it credibility and care about what they say.

but todays "who is more NFL ready" question was ridiculous as i saw it. its like they were just tossing a softball to Lebron so they could say he is better than Kobe still, forget about the game last night.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby L4L on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:10 pm

There is absolutely no doubt ESPN, hell, people in general, favor LeBron and his personality over the Mamba's (probably why ESPN shows him as much as they do) and it has nothing to do with what goes on the court which is dumb in my opinion, but seriously...

Griping about the headlines ESPN uses on their articles? LOL. Come on, like two hours later they were changed to something clearly pro-LA and not one person apologized for their completely unwarranted hissy fit.

I mean people just freak out over little comments made about LeBron and I think it is awesome and sad at the same time.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:14 pm

not espn but

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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Weezy on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:15 pm

L4L my first post in this thread said how pointless it is to care what ESPN thinks, but at the same time the things said about them are true so I have to laugh. I personally am irked by LeBron's personality more than Kobe's, and it's not just because he's a Laker. To me he has to much of a sense of entitlement, he's 'the chosen one', he won't participate in the Dunk Contest for the fans, it just irks me. He was already celebrated as one of the greats before he'd even done anything. Yeah, he's lived up to the hype, but he can also pretty much do no wrong and he knows it, which is why he gets a pass for not doing things like the Dunk Contest. I like LeBron's game, definitely think he's top 2 in the league, but I get kinda tired of hearing about him daily, he's not the greatest thing ever.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby BldngWine-CrvngGold on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:22 pm

if the finals come down to who has the better player, we have that. I can get into it all you guys want, and explain anything. this article encompasses some of my main points.


Lebron vs. Kobe:



First, I’m an unabashed Kobe homer. I have researched and argued the technicalities of certain provisions of the Colorado criminal code. Last week, I was teaching my two year old girl how to write letters for the first time and led with, “think of a word you really like, some person or thing you love and I’ll write that word.” Her immediate reply, unprovoked: “Kobe.” I’ve advocated for him endless times in mvp debates, his place among the greats of all time, his feud with Shaq, etc., etc. Yet, in this current debate, I must give way to clear reason and cry uncle. As a basketball player, Lebron is better. Than Kobe has ever been.

Random Lebron points:

• His PER this season is 32.0. That would be the best mark . . . ever. Jordan’s high was 31.7, Wilt’s 31.8, Magic’s 27.0, Bird’s 26.3, Kareem’s 29.9, Shaq’s 30.6, Duncan’s 27.1, and Kobe’s 28.0 (24.7 this year).
• To put his PER in perspective, Lebron uses 33.16 possessions a game. Those possessions result in 42.5 points. That means that if Lebron used all of his team’s possessions, they would end up with an offensive rating of 128.3 (LA leads the league at 110.4). Kobe uses 31.51 possessions a game and those result in 37.9 points, leading to an all Kobe offensive rating of 120.2. Both are off the charts, but the gap between the offense Lebron and Kobe create is huge.
• Lebron is more efficient in scoring the ball because he shoots a better percentage, which is primarily the result of both getting to the basket more and finishing at a higher rate when there. Lebron shoots 40% of his shots inside at a 74% clip; Kobe shoots 23% inside at 65%. Kobe shoots better on jump shots, but only by 5%.
• Lebron shoots 2.1% higher in true shooting %, assists on 5% more of his possessions, and rebounds at a 3% higher rate. He simply creates much more offense, more efficiently than Kobe, and uses the ball at about the same rate. And, remember, all of this comes in Kobe’s preeminent year in terms of scoring efficiency.
• Whatever the difference is between them on offense, it is bigger on defense. When Lebron is on the court, other teams score 97.9 points per 100 possessions; when he sits they score 105.9. When Kobe is on the court, other teams score 104.9 per 100; when he sits they score 104.2. Lebron makes his team 8.0 points per 100 better on defense; Kobe makes his team 0.7 worse. As a result, Lebron is 4th at individual defensive rating and second in defensive win shares. Lebron is the anchor of the league’s best defense. Kobe is a significant component of a strong, but far worse defense.

To me, these individual stats from Lebron reveal why Cleveland is so dominant as a team. When you first look at the team around Lebron, you see a lot of solid players, but nothing overwhelming. None of his teammates will be all stars this year, even in the weaker East; none will compete for all nba or all defensive honors; the bench is okay, but nothing like LA’s. Is Cleveland’s second best player (probably Ilgauskas) as good as LA or Boston’s fourth? Yet, Cleveland leads the league by a wide margin in both point and efficiency differential. They are having a historic season on both fronts. The reason is Lebron. Whatever you think of PER, he is having one of the single best seasons that any player has ever had – at both ends of the court – and is doing so in a way that directly translates to team dominance. And that’s not a point to glide past. He is putting up all time dominant individual numbers and helping all of his teammates have career years themselves. He is one part Michael and one part Magic. And he’s only 24.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby KGB on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:26 pm

Weezy wrote:L4L my first post in this thread said how pointless it is to care what ESPN thinks, but at the same time the things said about them are true so I have to laugh. I personally am irked by LeBron's personality more than Kobe's, and it's not just because he's a Laker. To me he has to much of a sense of entitlement, he's 'the chosen one', he won't participate in the Dunk Contest for the fans, it just irks me. He was already celebrated as one of the greats before he'd even done anything. Yeah, he's lived up to the hype, but he can also pretty much do no wrong and he knows it, which is why he gets a pass for not doing things like the Dunk Contest. I like LeBron's game, definitely think he's top 2 in the league, but I get kinda tired of hearing about him daily, he's not the greatest thing ever.
Good, post. Agree 100%
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby L4L on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:27 pm

Weezy wrote:I get kinda tired of hearing about him daily, he's not the greatest thing ever.


Haha, yeah. No doubt. Join the club.

But apparently others don't feel the same way because they have to constantly comment on every little ray of positivity that ESPN shines on LBJ in hopes of diminishing his "unfairly accrued" stash of praise.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby 432J on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:34 pm

:bspn:
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Knowledge1776 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:38 pm

BldngWine-CrvngGold wrote:if the finals come down to who has the better player, we have that. I can get into it all you guys want, and explain anything. this article encompasses some of my main points.


Lebron vs. Kobe:



First, I’m an unabashed Kobe homer. I have researched and argued the technicalities of certain provisions of the Colorado criminal code. Last week, I was teaching my two year old girl how to write letters for the first time and led with, “think of a word you really like, some person or thing you love and I’ll write that word.” Her immediate reply, unprovoked: “Kobe.” I’ve advocated for him endless times in mvp debates, his place among the greats of all time, his feud with Shaq, etc., etc. Yet, in this current debate, I must give way to clear reason and cry uncle. As a basketball player, Lebron is better. Than Kobe has ever been.

Random Lebron points:

• His PER this season is 32.0. That would be the best mark . . . ever. Jordan’s high was 31.7, Wilt’s 31.8, Magic’s 27.0, Bird’s 26.3, Kareem’s 29.9, Shaq’s 30.6, Duncan’s 27.1, and Kobe’s 28.0 (24.7 this year).
• To put his PER in perspective, Lebron uses 33.16 possessions a game. Those possessions result in 42.5 points. That means that if Lebron used all of his team’s possessions, they would end up with an offensive rating of 128.3 (LA leads the league at 110.4). Kobe uses 31.51 possessions a game and those result in 37.9 points, leading to an all Kobe offensive rating of 120.2. Both are off the charts, but the gap between the offense Lebron and Kobe create is huge.
• Lebron is more efficient in scoring the ball because he shoots a better percentage, which is primarily the result of both getting to the basket more and finishing at a higher rate when there. Lebron shoots 40% of his shots inside at a 74% clip; Kobe shoots 23% inside at 65%. Kobe shoots better on jump shots, but only by 5%.
• Lebron shoots 2.1% higher in true shooting %, assists on 5% more of his possessions, and rebounds at a 3% higher rate. He simply creates much more offense, more efficiently than Kobe, and uses the ball at about the same rate. And, remember, all of this comes in Kobe’s preeminent year in terms of scoring efficiency.
• Whatever the difference is between them on offense, it is bigger on defense. When Lebron is on the court, other teams score 97.9 points per 100 possessions; when he sits they score 105.9. When Kobe is on the court, other teams score 104.9 per 100; when he sits they score 104.2. Lebron makes his team 8.0 points per 100 better on defense; Kobe makes his team 0.7 worse. As a result, Lebron is 4th at individual defensive rating and second in defensive win shares. Lebron is the anchor of the league’s best defense. Kobe is a significant component of a strong, but far worse defense.

To me, these individual stats from Lebron reveal why Cleveland is so dominant as a team. When you first look at the team around Lebron, you see a lot of solid players, but nothing overwhelming. None of his teammates will be all stars this year, even in the weaker East; none will compete for all nba or all defensive honors; the bench is okay, but nothing like LA’s. Is Cleveland’s second best player (probably Ilgauskas) as good as LA or Boston’s fourth? Yet, Cleveland leads the league by a wide margin in both point and efficiency differential. They are having a historic season on both fronts. The reason is Lebron. Whatever you think of PER, he is having one of the single best seasons that any player has ever had – at both ends of the court – and is doing so in a way that directly translates to team dominance. And that’s not a point to glide past. He is putting up all time dominant individual numbers and helping all of his teammates have career years themselves. He is one part Michael and one part Magic. And he’s only 24.


Interesting numbers. However, I'm curious to see what happens now that Chicago and LA have exposed that there are much better methods of guarding James. In my opinion he roams the court entirely too freely to be a player of his stature. As for this thread, I'm with L4L. There was a time when ESPN was massively in love with Kobe as well.

Imagine how Wade feels when he's left out of the best in the world arguments when he has arguably outplayed Kobe in both matchups and James in at least one of the two. Then again, ESPN had a love affair with him as well before the injuries, so you just have to take the good times with the bad.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby BldngWine-CrvngGold on Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:32 pm

Knowledge1776 wrote:Interesting numbers. However, I'm curious to see what happens now that Chicago and LA have exposed that there are much better methods of guarding James


And what might those be? He got into the lane enough against the lakers, he just wasn't getting any calls early (and don't tell me those weren't fouls) so he slowly began shying away from it. And during the chicago game he was sick as hell and had no lift in his legs. He just wasn't finishing around the basket like he normally does because he didnt have his usual 44 inch vertical.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby kray28 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:05 pm

LOL. I knew the Cavs fans was going to start whining about the refs....just a matter of time.

I just got done watching my cap of last night's game....LeBron didn't get fouled much at all last night because he didn't take it to the rack much.

He settled for jumpers because that's what the Lakers gave him. He couldn't hit much though.

Kobe got no calls last night either....he shot three freethrows (to LeBron's eight). Two were And 1's and one was a tech. If anything, LeBron got more ref love last night than Kobe.

A big part of Kobe's PER numbers come against West teams like San Antonio, New Orleans, Houston, Phoenix, Utah and Dallas.

A big part of LeBron's PER numbers come against an competitively abysmal East.

Think some of that "huge" difference in PER might be explained by that?
Last edited by kray28 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Juronimo on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:09 pm

kray28 wrote:A big part of Kobe's PER numbers come against West teams like San Antonio, New Orleans, Houston, Phoenix, Utah and Dallas.

A big part of LeBron's PER numbers come against an competitively abysmal East.

Think some of that "huge" difference in PER might be explained by that?


Also Kobe doesn't and shouldn't do as much for the Lakers to be successful this year. If Lebron isn't beastin' it the Cavs have no chance of winning. That's a big difference also.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby BldngWine-CrvngGold on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:15 pm

So then why have lebron's best games (aside from the lakers game) come against the best teams? Most noteably the celtics. And to say lebrons PER is high is because he has to play well has nothing to do with it (in case you didnt know it stands for Player EFFICIANCY Rating). With every touch that lebron has, he is more efficiant with the ball than Kobe. PER POSSESION he does more for his team than Kobe EVER HAS. Sorry guys, but i can win this argument all day long.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Juronimo on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:24 pm

BldngWine-CrvngGold wrote:So then why have lebron's best games (aside from the lakers game) come against the best teams? Most noteably the celtics. And to say lebrons PER is high is because he has to play well has nothing to do with it (in case you didnt know it stands for Player EFFICIANCY Rating). With every touch that lebron has, he is more efficiant with the ball than Kobe. PER POSSESION he does more for his team than Kobe EVER HAS. Sorry guys, but i can win this argument all day long.


What argument would that be? That Lebron is the best in the league because of PER? Are you trying to argue that Lebron is having the best season in history because of PER? Is that your argument?
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Weezy on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:34 pm

I'm sorry, I thought this was a thread about ESPN giving Kobe so little respect when he's clearly one of the best players to ever play the game. This isn't a thread about LeBron's PER and how great his numbers are, you want to talk about that go do it in NBA discussion or on some Cavs board.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby BldngWine-CrvngGold on Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:58 am

Kobe fans go into a shell when they have been beaten.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Weezy on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 am

BldngWine-CrvngGold wrote:Kobe fans go into a shell when they have been beaten.


And LeBron fans feel the need to troll other boards for validation. I guess when you have the truly best player in the league you don't have to do that.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby kray28 on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:15 am

So it only took 12 posts for the LeBron rim sipper to go troll on us...LOL.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Chopper on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:21 am

If you want to compare PER season scoring averages of LBJ against the greats, you should do it against the comparable time frame in the NBA. I'm sure Wilt has a ridiculous PER average when he was in his mid 20s... factor in a 50.4 ppg season and 100 points in one game, I dont see LBJ pulling that off.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby KungFu on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:30 am

kray28 wrote:So it only took 12 posts for the LeBron rim sipper to go troll on us...LOL.


what is a rim sipper?
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby wzup44 on Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:12 am

^^dont ask
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