God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby TIME on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:26 pm

Finwë wrote:
Scnottaken wrote:
Finwë wrote:
Weezy wrote:I agree that LeBron is the best right now, and I also agree that the media gushes a little too much over him. Passing the ball really quickly across court because you don't want to/can't shoot 3's doesn't make it a good or amazing pass, it just makes it a pass. He has amazing athleticism, the way he gets to the rim can be amazing, but he still takes some ugly freakin shots. He had one 'fadeaway' just outside the key that was ugly, and yeah he hit a big 3, but then I believe he airballed one not too long after that. He's a great player, but he's not super skilled and his game to me at least, is not that smooth or nice to watch, I think Durant is a way more fun to watch scorer, reminds me way more of Kobe.

Exactly the way I feel, which is why I cringe when they call him "the most talented player in the L". You want to call him the best player? OK, I'll give you that, based on production and consistency. But most talented? Nope.
Outside of his athletic ability (which in my book isn't talent but rather a combination of luck -being born with it- and other factors; would it be fair to call Shaq "talented" because he was able to just back people down with his huge body?), he's only above average in one area: passing. I'll give him that, he's a great passer. Is he "the best passer outside of Steve Nash" like Bayless calls him? NO. Rondo, Jason Kidd, CP3, Deron Williams, Manu Ginobili are all guys who have more "passing ability" if you ask me...
It's like this: give Kobe LeBron's body and you have the GOAT and it's not even close. Now, give LeBron Kobe's body and you have a good player, but nothing that special, maybe a 2-time all-star.

I think that's where the distinction between talent and skill comes into play though. No one will ever call LeBron the most SKILLED player, and if they do, they're idiots.

What's the difference between talent and skill by your understanding?
I don't see anyway to call LeBron the most talented player in the league.

i'm not sure how others use the terms, but to ME, talent has to do with the genetic potential of a player, his natural tools. Skill has to do with how that player developed the tools he started with.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:27 pm

TIME wrote:
Finwë wrote:
Scnottaken wrote:
Finwë wrote:
Weezy wrote:I agree that LeBron is the best right now, and I also agree that the media gushes a little too much over him. Passing the ball really quickly across court because you don't want to/can't shoot 3's doesn't make it a good or amazing pass, it just makes it a pass. He has amazing athleticism, the way he gets to the rim can be amazing, but he still takes some ugly freakin shots. He had one 'fadeaway' just outside the key that was ugly, and yeah he hit a big 3, but then I believe he airballed one not too long after that. He's a great player, but he's not super skilled and his game to me at least, is not that smooth or nice to watch, I think Durant is a way more fun to watch scorer, reminds me way more of Kobe.

Exactly the way I feel, which is why I cringe when they call him "the most talented player in the L". You want to call him the best player? OK, I'll give you that, based on production and consistency. But most talented? Nope.
Outside of his athletic ability (which in my book isn't talent but rather a combination of luck -being born with it- and other factors; would it be fair to call Shaq "talented" because he was able to just back people down with his huge body?), he's only above average in one area: passing. I'll give him that, he's a great passer. Is he "the best passer outside of Steve Nash" like Bayless calls him? NO. Rondo, Jason Kidd, CP3, Deron Williams, Manu Ginobili are all guys who have more "passing ability" if you ask me...
It's like this: give Kobe LeBron's body and you have the GOAT and it's not even close. Now, give LeBron Kobe's body and you have a good player, but nothing that special, maybe a 2-time all-star.

I think that's where the distinction between talent and skill comes into play though. No one will ever call LeBron the most SKILLED player, and if they do, they're idiots.

What's the difference between talent and skill by your understanding?
I don't see anyway to call LeBron the most talented player in the league.

i'm not sure how others use the terms, but to ME, talent has to do with the genetic potential of a player, his natural tools. Skill has to do with how that player developed the tools he started with.

OK, that's an interesting use of those concepts. If we are using them that way, then I'd agree about LeBron's talent, just because he's a physical FREAK, unlike anything I've seen before in basketball in terms of speed+strength+vertical+stamina. But that's just luck and training (though I read he didn't really train that hard, and that some times, while trying to lose weight, he actually gained wait -which is really, um, curious to me if you know what I mean) isn't it? Whereas skills, fundamentals, mentality are all things that should be more valued, as they are the result of preparation, work ethic and dedication to the craft.
Shaq wasn't dedicated and didn't work that hard, yet if we are going by your definition, he was insanely "talented". Is he more talented than Hakeem? Basically, is physical ability a talent? And if it is, would you agree with me that skills should be more valued?
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:15 am

I see their full NBA players ranking is back ... I bet Kobe will end up between 10 and 15 after being ranked 7 last season
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby TIME on Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:42 am

Finwë wrote:OK, that's an interesting use of those concepts. If we are using them that way, then I'd agree about LeBron's talent, just because he's a physical FREAK, unlike anything I've seen before in basketball in terms of speed+strength+vertical+stamina. But that's just luck and training (though I read he didn't really train that hard, and that some times, while trying to lose weight, he actually gained wait -which is really, um, curious to me if you know what I mean) isn't it? Whereas skills, fundamentals, mentality are all things that should be more valued, as they are the result of preparation, work ethic and dedication to the craft.
Shaq wasn't dedicated and didn't work that hard, yet if we are going by your definition, he was insanely "talented". Is he more talented than Hakeem? Basically, is physical ability a talent? And if it is, would you agree with me that skills should be more valued?


I don't know if they "should", but I do. I've always valued skill over talent. It's why I rank Bird as high as I do among the all time greats. Medium talent, but as skilled as anyone his size has ever been.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby BDG on Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:34 am

You win one and you become ...

Image

... c'mon now. :man10:

At least they're finally being open about their loving agenda for him.
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Slava laughed at the suggestion his skills might be affected by the down time. "Are you kidding?" he said. "Basketball is like ball. It's all a circle."

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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Tobias Funke on Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:36 am

...Rings?
"Come hell or high water we're gonna be there again. Its just something about the Lakers organization. Mitch is really, really good at it, he's really really good man...."

- 24
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:51 am

DOn't be hatin.....
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Scnottaken on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:57 am

The lockout year they must have been handing out the one ring.
I want to hear "Beat LA" chants at a Clipper vs Laker game
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby sick_irony on Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:37 am

if you read the comic book the "rings" part actually makes sense:

http://espn.go.com/espn/photos/gallery/ ... king-rings

Don't take it too seriously, it's actually kinda funny
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Zibi on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:01 am

Not sure if this was already posted:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/50302/a-field-guide-to-flopping

This awesome!
Kobe not mentioned even once. After that article I'm starting to like ESPN.
fruwać jest generalnie nieroztropnie wiec nie pijcie przy otwartym oknie:)
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby 100%effort on Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:48 am

BDG wrote:You win one and you become ...

Image

... c'mon now. :man10:

At least they're finally being open about their loving agenda for him.


Sighs ... King of the Rings huh?
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby venky on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:28 am

King of the Ring*
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby gcclaker on Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:40 am

Tobias Funke wrote:...Rings?

Yes...plural [rolls eyes].
No siggie...
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby pound4pound1 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:07 am

BDG wrote:You win one and you become ...

Image

... c'mon now. :man10:

At least they're finally being open about their loving agenda for him.



gotta be kidding me
.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Finwë on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:36 am

What has been bothering me is that I recently saw a tweet from Chris Palmer (big ESPN guy) where he was making his season predictions. Of course, he predicted LeBron would win his 4th MVP. First I though "OK, I'm not surprised that's his prediction" and that was it.. But now I'm thinking that since the MVP is voted by the media, and that maybe Palmer's didn't merely pencil in LeBron in his MVP vote, maybe he's already decided that's who he's voting for.. Palmer is a HUGE LeBron fan, he's sent out tweets saying LeBron is already better than MJ in terms of talent, that it's just a matter of accolades and things like that.. If there's anything following over 100 NBA reporters & sites on twitter showed me is that there's A LOT (more than what I originally guessed) of pro-LeBron bias out there, and these people are the ones who decide the result of this overhyped (since it lacks consistent criteria) award..
After the Heat beat the Thunder MID-SEASON this year Palmer said that LeBron had "locked up" the MVP award, even though there were like 20 games left (1/3 of the season) and a lot of people thought the race was very close.. Maybe Palmer's not alone, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out a lot of "experts" have already decided who they are gonna give the award to this year..
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:59 am

The MVP award has less to do with being the "MVP" and more to do with being the considered "best" by these media wanna-be stars. I agree with Lakerswiz that 80% already have their minds made up that Lebron will win it. It really doesn't matter what others do in the end because the choice is made. Is it any wonder why fans are so easily influenced when the sports media has absolute bias when it comes to picking these awards? No matter how great a season Kobe or Dwight has they will only get a customary nod at MVP consideration (you know the filler at the end of the articles). WHen writers use the terms, "I can see no reason why so and so shouldn't win it" then they are already closing off the posibilities of others winning except for the one or two recognized front runners. Again, I go to Lakerswiz response, "Let's be real here, without injuries it's going to be Lebron or Kevin Durant". That statement reflects what we have been fed and what our writers have pushed to us. Those two are arguably the two best players in the game today and playing for arguably the two best teams in the league. However, should that really be a foregone conclussion? Should Kobe have to put up Kobe/Smush era numbers and lead the Lakers to 73 wins to get real consideration? Minds have been made the trophy already stamped and etched... just a few games to play and the gushing will begin at full boil. Thats just the way it is.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Forklift on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:02 am

dude seriously guys read the comic ESPN is just joking around :man10:. Unless you guys think Heat are really going to sign a zombie Shane Battier :man1:
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:11 am

They had the MVP decided when they did the NBA player rank in the offseason. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the MVP voting pan out like the NBA ranks (given everyone stays healthy).
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Weezy on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:36 am

The funniest thing to me in all this is the day LeBron announced he was signing with Miami you had all these tv analysts, LEBRONSPN included , saying how he would never win another MVP award again and that he gave that up by joining a superstar in Wade and an all star in Bosh. They were also saying how he gave up any shot at ever being compared to MJ because he left to get help and didn't stay and do it as "the man". Those arguments were stupid to begin with, because nobody ever wins championships without another star or two next to them, and almost all the MVP's throughout NBA history played on great teams, but that they forgot they made these arguments after LeBron won one ring is what makes me laugh. These so called experts are so fickle and so full of it for the most part.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby kray28 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:40 am

You're only capable of joking when you actually have the ability to be funny.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Finwë on Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:37 pm

Agreed. I wasn't saying he shouldn't win it, he should if he's the clear cut best player this season -though not just in terms of statistical production; showing up in the clutch, playing D that isn't just recorded as steals and blocks, being a leader, etc. are all very important..

Just to be clear I'm not a "LeBron hater" or whatever, in fact I've always thought he was a good guy, and except from some parts of his game (flopping, bulldozing to the basket, not hitting the big shots) I think he's a superb bball player. My gripe is with the media, the ones that have overhyped him (and others) since he came to the L, and as soon as he won his 1st ring already begun debating whether he was better than MJ.. There's just too much bias and exaggeration out there, and it bothers me because sadly their influence is huge and it hurts the perception of players who deserve to get their due recognition and aren't necessarily getting it.
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Weezy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:34 pm

I think this deserves a bump. I don't hate ESPN right now, they're giving us tons of coverage, in fact all other teams must hate ESPN and us right now. That said, I have to point out how much they've tried to make the firing of Brown seem unfair, from bringing every 'expert', analyst, and ex player they have on staff or could dig up to comment on the situation, to the stupid graphics comparing how soon this firing would have been in every other sport. Every interview they do about it contains these questions, "was it unfair?", and "how much was it Kobe's doing?". I have to especially laugh at that last one, they are trying so damn hard to pin this on Kobe, but no analysts are biting, Kobe is not biting, nobody is saying Kobe had a thing to do with it, they must be so disappointed, yet they keep trying, oh LEBRONSPN, show some class.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby kray28 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:40 pm

Magic was on ESPN and very supportive of the move, sounding very much like a frustrated fan, but he also felt that Kobe had nothing to do with the firing. That doesn't mean that Kobe wanted Brown to keep his job, but I don't think Kobe went to them and demanded the firing.

Shaq was surprised that it happened...he thought Brown would get at least 12 or so games....but he also said that in LA there is no messing around and waiting when the expectations are so high.
Last edited by kray28 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:42 pm

Can't wait for Jemele Hill to give her opinion....

"Mike Brown was fired strictly because he was black....."
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Re: God I hate ESPN

Postby Balance&Options24 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:51 pm

like how one of their main topics is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LeBron: Brown didn't get 'fair shake' in L.A.



Ok, I know he played for him, but really???




and I love this gem from James
"

I've got a lot to say, but I'm not going to say it right now," said James,
If you want to be a hero, you gotta take hero shots -R. Miller
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