God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby NomisR on Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:37 pm

therealdeal wrote:I don't think the odds of him playing at a superstar level are that low. I think he can still perform very well, but I guess that depends on your definition of superstar.

Is Tim Duncan a superstar? He'll perform at least as well as Timmy if Kobe stays healthy.


Kobe will merely be down to an all star level instead of GOAT level, which is 2 steps down.... :bow:
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby DJ-RaZ-Q#24 on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:18 pm

Can't wait until he shows us what he can do on the court ... all this bs in here wondering what he can do is just nerv wrecking :man8:
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby LTLakerFan on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:26 pm

Wondering what he can do? More like being told what he can't or won't be able to do. :man2:
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby abeer3 on Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:33 am

my projection doesn't change a lot depending upon kobe's play, really. the last time he took the floor with a supporting cast this weak, he was in his prime...and they won 33 games.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby DJ-RaZ-Q#24 on Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:40 am

abeer3 wrote:my projection doesn't change a lot depending upon kobe's play, really. the last time he took the floor with a supporting cast this weak, he was in his prime...and they won 33 games.


Rudy T stepped down and he was injured for about 20 games ... before that they were hanging around the 6th spot so this comparison is kind of weak. And I think the supporting case was even weaker than right now. Remember Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown? :man11:
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby abeer3 on Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:15 pm

I remember prime odom and prime caron butler, too.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby wallangong on Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:15 pm

abeer3 wrote:I remember prime odom and prime caron butler, too.


i remember pre-prime Odom and Butler. Odom already had the tools but didn't have his niche as the 3rd guy. He was the scapegoat here on CL. This was Butler's breakout year, but he wasn't quite there yet.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby abeer3 on Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:11 pm

just saying. who on the current roster is even pre-prime odom and butler?

long story short: I'm just trying to temper expectations around here. this forum will be a nightmare come January if people are really expecting a playoff team.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby LakersN4 on Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:14 pm

Lin/Young/Hill/Boozer/Davis.. I'm supremely confident in what we'll get from those guys. If Kobe can play enough like 12-13 Kobe that we can't tell the difference, we're a playoff team. Health & Randle/Clarkson are the only real question marks. We have some very solid players.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:24 pm

abeer3 wrote:just saying. who on the current roster is even pre-prime odom and butler?

long story short: I'm just trying to temper expectations around here.
this forum will be a nightmare come January if people are really expecting a playoff team.


I think the bolded is more than fair...the 8th seeded team had 49 wins last year. We'll have to win at least 20 or more games to even sniff the 8th seed. That's not happening, IMO. I've said before, and I'll say it again; I see us winning 10-12 more games than last season. 37-40 wins should be right around where we end up...
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby Barnstable on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:26 pm

lukewaltonsdad wrote:
abeer3 wrote:just saying. who on the current roster is even pre-prime odom and butler?

long story short: I'm just trying to temper expectations around here.
this forum will be a nightmare come January if people are really expecting a playoff team.


I think the bolded is more than fair...the 8th seeded team had 49 wins last year. We'll have to win at least 20 or more games to even sniff the 8th seed. That's not happening, IMO. I've said before, and I'll say it again; I see us winning 10-12 more games than last season. 37-40 wins should be right around where we end up...


I agree.

I just wish people would acknowledge last years team was injured like no other team I've ever seen before, and factor that fact in to the record speculation. We probably won't have nearly as many injuries this year doesn't matter if our squad has changed much or not, the number and length of injuries last season were not normal for any NBA team, old or young. For god's sake, we barely had enough players to play in quite a few of those games last season.

We only had 3 players that played 70+ games, 3 players that played 60+ games, and most of the rest of the players looked to have averaged in the upper 30s or low 40s of games played. That's INSANE!!!

In the up coming season that isn't going to happen nearly on the scale of last season.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:57 am

2006 Kobe ain't walking through that door ... we won't win more than 35 games imo
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:44 pm

Barnstable wrote:
lukewaltonsdad wrote:
abeer3 wrote:just saying. who on the current roster is even pre-prime odom and butler?

long story short: I'm just trying to temper expectations around here.
this forum will be a nightmare come January if people are really expecting a playoff team.


I think the bolded is more than fair...the 8th seeded team had 49 wins last year. We'll have to win at least 20 or more games to even sniff the 8th seed. That's not happening, IMO. I've said before, and I'll say it again; I see us winning 10-12 more games than last season. 37-40 wins should be right around where we end up...


I agree.

I just wish people would acknowledge last years team was injured like no other team I've ever seen before, and factor that fact in to the record speculation. We probably won't have nearly as many injuries this year doesn't matter if our squad has changed much or not, the number and length of injuries last season were not normal for any NBA team, old or young. For god's sake, we barely had enough players to play in quite a few of those games last season.

We only had 3 players that played 70+ games, 3 players that played 60+ games, and most of the rest of the players looked to have averaged in the upper 30s or low 40s of games played. That's INSANE!!!

In the up coming season that isn't going to happen nearly on the scale of last season.


Agreed..... My Cincinnati Reds this year are similarly snake bit with injury. It happens sometimes. With that said.... I believe we will see significant time loss to injury again this year. Old players with aging bodies and players playing more minutes by far than their career averages. Players playing out of position as well will lead to more injury than established roles/rotations and younger players.

I don't expect the train wreck of injury we had last year but I also don't expect that it will be significantly better either.

Kobe will be the key. If he gets injured for a long period of time 30 games will be hard to reach.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby FabFourLakers on Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:41 pm

Abeer, I think the comparison to Kobe's 2004-2005 squad is inaccurate, as that team had a ton of injuries to key players, and we had Luke Walton as our 3rd best player that year...yes, Luke Walton and Caron Butler were our two best players down the stretch with Kobe and Odom both sitting in street clothes.

A more accurate comparison would be the 2005/06 and 2006/07 squads that Kobe had...those squads went to the playoffs as low seeds...but that was PRIME Kobe...this is an older Kobe coming off 2 very serious, career ending injuries. People need to realize that and know that this team's ceiling is maybe 45 games and that's if EVERYTHING goes right. Our best case is actually trying to be like a Phoenix Suns type of squad and nearly making the playoffs, but just falling short.

I think even if that happens, that'll be good for our team, as we will instantly be more attractive to FA's if we show that we can win and scrap and our younger players continue to get better.

I agree with the ESPN forecast 100%. Maybe not 30 games...but i'd say 35 is fair. The bottom 4 teams in the West are easily the Lakers, Kings, Jazz and Twolves. And hey, not necessarily a bad thing...could end up with the 5th pick after all.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:06 pm

FabFourLakers wrote:Abeer, I think the comparison to Kobe's 2004-2005 squad is inaccurate, as that team had a ton of injuries to key players, and we had Luke Walton as our 3rd best player that year...yes, Luke Walton and Caron Butler were our two best players down the stretch with Kobe and Odom both sitting in street clothes.

A more accurate comparison would be the 2005/06 and 2006/07 squads that Kobe had...those squads went to the playoffs as low seeds...but that was PRIME Kobe...this is an older Kobe coming off 2 very serious, career ending injuries. People need to realize that and know that this team's ceiling is maybe 45 games and that's if EVERYTHING goes right. Our best case is actually trying to be like a Phoenix Suns type of squad and nearly making the playoffs, but just falling short.

I think even if that happens, that'll be good for our team, as we will instantly be more attractive to FA's if we show that we can win and scrap and our younger players continue to get better.

I agree with the ESPN forecast 100%. Maybe not 30 games...but i'd say 35 is fair. The bottom 4 teams in the West are easily the Lakers, Kings, Jazz and Twolves. And hey, not necessarily a bad thing...could end up with the 5th pick after all.


problem is that those 4 teams in the west are all better than the bottom 8 in the East.... To get the 5th pick we'd have to win ±25 games I'd think.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby jlkr on Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:47 am

Probably have to finish last or next to last in the West to get that 5th seed or better. Not happening barring a 2nd year full of injuries. Only other hope is getting into top 3 via lottery drawing. But that's assuming they will still have it next year.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 am

FabFourLakers wrote:Abeer, I think the comparison to Kobe's 2004-2005 squad is inaccurate, as that team had a ton of injuries to key players, and we had Luke Walton as our 3rd best player that year...yes, Luke Walton and Caron Butler were our two best players down the stretch with Kobe and Odom both sitting in street clothes.

A more accurate comparison would be the 2005/06 and 2006/07 squads that Kobe had...those squads went to the playoffs as low seeds...but that was PRIME Kobe...this is an older Kobe coming off 2 very serious, career ending injuries. People need to realize that and know that this team's ceiling is maybe 45 games and that's if EVERYTHING goes right. Our best case is actually trying to be like a Phoenix Suns type of squad and nearly making the playoffs, but just falling short.

I think even if that happens, that'll be good for our team, as we will instantly be more attractive to FA's if we show that we can win and scrap and our younger players continue to get better.

I agree with the ESPN forecast 100%. Maybe not 30 games...but i'd say 35 is fair. The bottom 4 teams in the West are easily the Lakers, Kings, Jazz and Twolves. And hey, not necessarily a bad thing...could end up with the 5th pick after all.


The 05-07 squads featured Smush, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Kwame as our STARTERS. Granted, yes it was PRIME Kobe, but even Lamar at the time was just another journeyman.

Then off the bench you had guys like Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Devean George and a very premature Andrew Bynum. :hurl:

Granted we won't know how Kobe will come back, but the our depth chart is MUCH easier to swallow than those years.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby Alcindor on Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:03 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:Abeer, I think the comparison to Kobe's 2004-2005 squad is inaccurate, as that team had a ton of injuries to key players, and we had Luke Walton as our 3rd best player that year...yes, Luke Walton and Caron Butler were our two best players down the stretch with Kobe and Odom both sitting in street clothes.

A more accurate comparison would be the 2005/06 and 2006/07 squads that Kobe had...those squads went to the playoffs as low seeds...but that was PRIME Kobe...this is an older Kobe coming off 2 very serious, career ending injuries. People need to realize that and know that this team's ceiling is maybe 45 games and that's if EVERYTHING goes right. Our best case is actually trying to be like a Phoenix Suns type of squad and nearly making the playoffs, but just falling short.

I think even if that happens, that'll be good for our team, as we will instantly be more attractive to FA's if we show that we can win and scrap and our younger players continue to get better.

I agree with the ESPN forecast 100%. Maybe not 30 games...but i'd say 35 is fair. The bottom 4 teams in the West are easily the Lakers, Kings, Jazz and Twolves. And hey, not necessarily a bad thing...could end up with the 5th pick after all.


The 05-07 squads featured Smush, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Kwame as our STARTERS. Granted, yes it was PRIME Kobe, but even Lamar at the time was just another journeyman.

Then off the bench you had guys like Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Devean George and a very premature Andrew Bynum. :hurl:

Granted we won't know how Kobe will come back, but the our depth chart is MUCH easier to swallow than those years.


eh..I don't buy the "MUCH easier to swallow" tag for this roster. You've lumped Odom in with the likes of Smush and Kwame...'06-'07 Odom is better than than anyone not named Kobe on the current roster. He was roughly a 16/10/5 guy who was a big component of our offense and a good defender. You've left out Farmar, Turiaf, Sasha , Radman....all good role players. And even though Bynum only played 21-22 minutes per game, he played every game in 06-07 and helped our depth tremendously.The coach was PJ and as you said we had prime Kobe. The most recent version of Kobe (just prior to injuries) did not play defense anywhere near as consistent as prime Kobe.

PG: Lin/Clarkson/Nash vs Farmar/Smush - I don't even count Nash since he won't play more than 10-15 games and Clarkson is an unproven commodity in the NBA but I will concede PG position to the 2014 roster just based on Lin
SG: Prime Kobe/Sasha vs: Post Injury Kobe and I guess Johnson as our wing backup - No question here 2006 wins
SF: Walton/McKie vs Young/Henry/Johnson - 2014 wins
PF: Odom/Radman/Cook vs. Boozer/Randle/Kelly - imo this is a tie, 06 has the best starter but '14 has better depth. Depending on how fast and if Randle developes this could lean toward '14 later.
C: Kwame/Bynum/Turiaf vs Hill/Davis/Sacre - despite Kwame's thick skull and butterfingers he played good D, I take the 06 roster for much better depth

PG: '14 SG: '06 SF: '14 PF: Tie C: '06 - looks very similar to me in terms of competitiveness but what matters is whether this roster will jell and play with Scott's defensive mindset while learning the Princeton.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:49 am

Bynum wasn't nearly the player he was until 07. Yes, he did play 20mpg, but he wasn't nearly the anchor and post presence he was the following year.

Yes, we did have Farmar and Vujacic, but again, both had very limited roles due to their youth. Farmar only started getting into his stride when Smush quit.

Lamar was the biggest disappointment of all. Sure he was a 16/10/5 guy, but he was soooo inconsistent up until Gasol came in, that's the Lamar we finally wanted. Before that, he was another journeyman.

Then you look at the starting lineup and think, Kwame, Smush, and Walton? Really? Kwame is a good post defender, but is a god awful anchor. After receiving his lengthy contract, Walton went from decent role player, to just "glue guy". And don't even start with Smush.

PG - I agree. Lin should be the better talent than Smush/Farmar. With now and expanded role, and no one to play behind, I expect him to have at least a decent year.

SG- Yes, prime Kobe definitely takes out post-injury Kobe. Henry healthy is better than a young Vujacic, but yeah, advantage 06'.

SF - Johnson/Young is definitely more capable than Walton/McKie.

PF - I agree with a tie here. Odom is definitely the superior talent over Boozer/Randle/Kelly, but the depth of talent for 2014 makes it equal.

C - I'm going to have to give it to 2014 here. Kwame was horrible on offense, he couldn't finish a pick and roll if his life depended on it. Not to mention, he was a horrible rebounder. Hill is so much more than Kwame ever was with his offensive rebounding, defensive hustle, and limited post game. If anything, Kwame is barely better than Sacre, even Sacre is decent offensively. Bynum still hadn't blossomed yet and Ed Davis is still trying to find his game, but I will have to give the advantage to 2014.

To me, the difference between 2014 and 2006 is TEAM. 06 was completely Kobe. 2014 will be a more balanced attack, that will go through Kobe on occasion, but the players we have on this squad are a lot more competent than those on the 06 squad, which lacked so much chemistry. Of course, we don't know how this year will play out yet, but I definitely have a better feeling than that 06 squad.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby Armani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:04 pm

Man, I would gladly exchange this roster for the 2006 one, just for prime Kobe. He and Phil together guarantee us a playoff spot, and at least the whole time I knew we just needed one other all star to get us back into contention... this roster lacks an engine. Way easier to get the Pau Gasol than a replacement for Kobe.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:46 pm

I definitely think this roster is better than the 2006 one. The Difference though.....

The West is so so much better now-a-days then it was in 2006. This year's team is more complete and have a lot more depth. But given the competition I feel its just so much harder to make it in the playoffs now.

By the way, put me in the circle of fans that think we can still make the playoffs this year.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby LakersN4 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:37 pm

Oh you thought you hated ESPN before?

Their top 10 Shooting Guard rankings:

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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:49 am

LakersN4 wrote:Oh you thought you hated ESPN before?

Their top 10 Shooting Guard rankings:

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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby MadMax on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:20 am

Source?

I don't believe it.
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Re: God I hate ESPN: Kobe unhappy Lakers won? (123)

Postby laakers on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:50 am

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11374705/nba-projecting-top-10-shooting-guards-warp-2014-15

It's an insider story. That's pretty hilarious though. Like, does it even make me mad? I just laugh at that stuff honestly
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