Jordan Hill Discussion: Back for 2 yr/$18 mil

Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby sister golden hair on Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:02 am

There doesn't seem to be a plan with the FO. They seem to be totally at the mercy of circumstances. But they've placed themselves in that position. There are a string of poorly thought-out decisions. Even when their heart seems to be in the right place (e.g., the Kobe extension), their actions seem premature. Again, too often the FO appears to be driven by an agenda other than making the decisions that will place the franchise on the most solid footing possible moving forward. They have spoken and danced around the magic phrase of "cap space" for a few seasons now, only to take two steps back by giving Kobe -- still my favorite player mind you -- an extension that even he seemed surprised to recive at this point in the season. And the rationales one hears paraded after the fact -- by hired PR minions like John Ireland -- are laughable and truly head-scratching.

Unless they get terribly lucky, the decision-makers in the FO will only dig themselves a bigger hole in the coming months because they often seem to be invested in upholding their pride more than anything else.

One bad decisions has given birth to a whole brood of them.

But, hey, maybe they will get lucky.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:08 am

Vasashi17 wrote:Lakers: Where even salary dumps fail


Hold on now, we got rid of Blake's salary, and we can still cut Kaman and Hill to save money. They may even be claimed ON waivers, Hill most likely, and that would mean that their salary will come off the books and can get us below the tax threshold.

A great way to dramatically increase the likelihood that teams claim their contracts, we can wait and cut both players 24 hours before the March 1st playoff roster deadline, FORCING teams to pick up their current contracts if they want them available for the playoff rosters...as it takes 48 hours before a player can CLEAR waivers and become a free agent. :man12:
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby noobiew on Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:25 am

Vasashi17 wrote:We clearly let it be known that we don't want him. Heck we even put a price tag on it: a mere 2nd rounder.

This was an epic fail by LA...Brooks has been TRADED 3 times in his 4 year career. Bazemore is a minimum contract that has all of 25K guaranteed for next season.

Salary DUMP...heck, we even logjammed our roster with 15 with this move. So we can't pick up any scraps that fall via buyout. Those would probably be more promising to scoop up and have a shot at resigning this summer than these two.

This is a fail on every account. Kaman wanted a trade and Hill believed he was going to get traded....they're here. We've been messing with Pau for 3 years....he's still here.

Lakers: Where even salary dumps fail


Well said, very poor management from the Lakers front-office, I thought that Hill and Kaman would definitely be gone prior to the trade deadline after knowing that the Lakers traded Blake away, it was very obvious that the goal for the Lakers FO in mind was to trade Hill, Kaman, Blake or Pau to get under cap threshold (tax luxury).

Epic failed job from the Lakers, not getting the job done.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:34 am

angrypuppy wrote:OK, maybe I'm chiming in late. Forgive me, I'm a newbee.

The front office was pressured to shed salary and the other GMs knew it; hence they refused to give the Lakers a second rounder for Hill... or a first rounder for Pau. But why should they? There was almost zero market for Pau, and teams knew they were giving the Lakers a favor by taking Hill. Now if the Lakers front office had the brains to trade Pau to Cleveland, the other GMs would have known there was little to no pressure to trade Hill.

It serves the front office right. They handled the trade market like a bunch of roto-league chumps.


Clev wasn't offering a 1st rd pick either :freak2: ....Mitch not giving in to trading these guys without meeting his asking price while not good for now presently its good for the long runs. Other GM's know Mitch aint' not punk b##tch. That is what Phi GM is getting a rep for right now, Phi made alot of trades and yes they did get alot of 2nd rd picks but when they pratcially gave away Turner/Allen for a salary dump and saved Indy money at the same time and all they got for it was 1 measly 2nd pick. Even Morey, Hou GM did not give in just dumping Asik if teams didn't meet his asking price, whether he delusional or not he knows he aint flinching until you do.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:52 am

khmrP wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:OK, maybe I'm chiming in late. Forgive me, I'm a newbee.

The front office was pressured to shed salary and the other GMs knew it; hence they refused to give the Lakers a second rounder for Hill... or a first rounder for Pau. But why should they? There was almost zero market for Pau, and teams knew they were giving the Lakers a favor by taking Hill. Now if the Lakers front office had the brains to trade Pau to Cleveland, the other GMs would have known there was little to no pressure to trade Hill.

It serves the front office right. They handled the trade market like a bunch of roto-league chumps.


Clev wasn't offering a 1st rd pick either :freak2: ....Mitch not giving in to trading these guys without meeting his asking price while not good for now presently its good for the long runs. Other GM's know Mitch aint' not punk b##tch. That is what Phi GM is getting a rep for right now, Phi made alot of trades and yes they did get alot of 2nd rd picks but when they pratcially gave away Turner/Allen for a salary dump and saved Indy money at the same time and all they got for it was 1 measly 2nd pick. Even Morey, Hou GM did not give in just dumping Asik if teams didn't meet his asking price, whether he delusional or not he knows he aint flinching until you do.

Well said.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby angrypuppy on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:15 am

khmrP wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:OK, maybe I'm chiming in late. Forgive me, I'm a newbee.

The front office was pressured to shed salary and the other GMs knew it; hence they refused to give the Lakers a second rounder for Hill... or a first rounder for Pau. But why should they? There was almost zero market for Pau, and teams knew they were giving the Lakers a favor by taking Hill. Now if the Lakers front office had the brains to trade Pau to Cleveland, the other GMs would have known there was little to no pressure to trade Hill.

It serves the front office right. They handled the trade market like a bunch of roto-league chumps.


Clev wasn't offering a 1st rd pick either :freak2: ....Mitch not giving in to trading these guys without meeting his asking price while not good for now presently its good for the long runs. Other GM's know Mitch aint' not punk b##tch. That is what Phi GM is getting a rep for right now, Phi made alot of trades and yes they did get alot of 2nd rd picks but when they pratcially gave away Turner/Allen for a salary dump and saved Indy money at the same time and all they got for it was 1 measly 2nd pick. Even Morey, Hou GM did not give in just dumping Asik if teams didn't meet his asking price, whether he delusional or not he knows he aint flinching until you do.




There are limits to reputation effects within negotiating, any skilled negotiator will tell you that. They traded Blake to save $2 million, the return package was just two guys who, at best, might get minimum contract offers from a team next season. Had they traded Pau for Bynum they would have saved $19 million (note: these are all unadjusted figures based on annual salary alone). Not trading Pau then or later (if there was such an opportunity) was cutting off your nose to spite your face. Forget the flinch metaphor, the Lakers tipped their hand when they traded Blake. It was ego not reason that kept Pau on the roster (oh, and his "Bird rights" which will likely amount to nothing).

Further, look at the other deals on the market. Deng (who has more value than Pau at this point) was traded for almost nothing. One first round pick was a swap option, the other was a heavily protected pick that will probably expire unexercised. Look at the other deals on the market afterward: Players were being dumped at fire sale prices. It's a buyer's market. In other words, the offers the front office received were pretty much the going rate for Pau, Hill, and Blake, tempered further by the fact that everyone knew the Lakers really wanted to save money (a weak negotiating position).

It isn't just saving money, it is positioning yourself for the best possible pick in the upcoming draft. If Pau and one other Laker has a good game against a weak opponent, we stand a good chance at winning. At this point winning is counter-productive, especially in a draft that is perhaps 3 to 5 high quality players deep. Other teams have a strategy in place to capitalize on this draft. We simply don't have a clear strategy.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:20 am

If Cleveland didn't offer us a pick, then why would we trade Gasol for Bynum?

The Lakers have said over and over and over again that the money isn't that great a concern for them. The small amount of concern they have is for the luxury tax because the repeater tax is almost certain to not hit them over the next two years. They don't care about saving money.

They traded Blake because it freed up minutes for younger players and they acquired two more young auditions. Saving the money was a bonus. If they were really concerned with saving money they would have. They had plenty of offers on the table obviously to take on Kaman, Gasol, and Hill. They could have made any of those moves to save money and they didn't.

Moving Blake meant positive minutes for Marshall. It meant more opportunities for Farmar. And it meant they get to see this Bazemore kid that although most of you don't remember, has lit us up every time he played us. In the Summer League, the pre-season, and garbage time. This kid comes to play against us and Mitch is always intrigued by those players.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby swagmeister on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:25 am

Doc Brown wrote:At least my dude gets to stay here for another 28 games. :jam2:

Please fire MDA, so we can keep him next year.

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Jordan Hill on all the trade interest in him: "It feels good to be wanted. It feels good to be liked."
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J. Hill is a beast on the boards; something that we desperately need. Glad he wasn't shipped out. :mhihi:
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby swagmeister on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:25 am

Doc Brown wrote:At least my dude gets to stay here for another 28 games. :jam2:

Please fire MDA, so we can keep him next year.

Dave McMenamin ‏@mcten 3m
Jordan Hill on all the trade interest in him: "It feels good to be wanted. It feels good to be liked."
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J. Hill is a beast on the boards; something that we desperately need. Glad he wasn't shipped out. :mhihi:
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:25 am

Hawes got Phi 2 2nd rd picks, I do not see why Mitch is wrong to hold out for at least 1 2nd pick for someone of Hills abilitlity. All Hawes is as a player is a 7ft SG, plays no D but Clev was willing to pay that price. If teams aren't willing to pay the price we're asking we dont cave, simple as that. What does dumping Kaman and Hill for mere cap luxury tax saving do for us exactly? Jimbo can only spend based on the cap, whatever is saved he KEEPS. Why should we care what that arse saves, he is one of the culprits that created this team. Morey who seems to have a reputation around the league as a hard arse and a smart GM took the same route with Asik an Lin, both those guys can actually play and make big impact for a team that could use them, their cap hit is alot more friendlier then Pau's contract even though both will really get paid $15mill salary wise. Teams knew Hou needed to dump them and probably didn't even want to pay half of that asking price but as per the statement, ego might have gotten in the way if even a half way decent offer was made and he rejected it. But end of the day, opposing GM will know next time "come correct or dont come at all" While GM like Philly will get bent over time and time again in the future on his trades.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby angrypuppy on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:44 am

At that point Cleveland couldn't trade for Pau.

The market for Pau was very thin, as he made $19+ million. Once Cleveland landed Deng, they couldn't trade for Pau. Market closed. Other venues were also closed, as the only teams interested would be those who were contending for a playoff spot and had $19 million or so in disposable players, which of course is very disruptive to a roster midseason.

Anyway, maybe money means nothing to the Lakers. Great. I guess Mitch forgot that memo went he shipped off Blake, saving $2 million for two guys who are not even locks as minimum contract players in the league next season.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby khmrP on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:04 pm

^^^You making it sounds as if Blake is some can't miss trade target......GSW could've not made the trade and still be the same team they are now. So per your rebuttal, you would've been fine if we gave away Hill for the same garbage we got for Blake then?
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:14 pm

angrypuppy wrote:At that point Cleveland couldn't trade for Pau.

The market for Pau was very thin, as he made $19+ million. Once Cleveland landed Deng, they couldn't trade for Pau. Market closed. Other venues were also closed, as the only teams interested would be those who were contending for a playoff spot and had $19 million or so in disposable players, which of course is very disruptive to a roster midseason.

Anyway, maybe money means nothing to the Lakers. Great. I guess Mitch forgot that memo went he shipped off Blake, saving $2 million for two guys who are not even locks as minimum contract players in the league next season.

Right. Cleveland didn't offer a pick for Pau before and they didn't offer anything at the deadline either. We got no pick offers from anyone at the deadline. Heck, we didn't even get player offers at the deadline for Hill, Kaman, or Pau. We got nothing.

So what are you asking from the FO? To trade those guys for nothing? Literally for nothing but money saving? What does that get us? That doesn't even get us two minimum contract players in the league next season.

I don't understand why what the Lakers FO did AT THE DEADLINE is wrong. Obviously if they had a chance to move Pau before the deadline, at any point in this season actually, for picks then they should have done it. But other than that, they did the right thing.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby charvin on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:36 pm

therealdeal wrote:The small amount of concern they have is for the luxury tax because the repeater tax is almost certain to not hit them over the next two years. They don't care about saving money.


I'm confused. Are you saying that the Lakers are likely not required to have to pay the repeater tax?

EDIT: I just read the article on LA Times. "The Lakers anticipate going under the salary cap itself (projected by the NBA to be $62.9 million for next season) this summer. Kupchak indicated the team will also consider staying under the cap the following summer."

From the quoted part, does the writer mean that the Lakers are likely to not exceed $62.9 (if salary cap becomes that amount) million after signing the players/draft in FA for next season?
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:44 pm

Real, I get what you're saying...but what they did wrong is how they choose to conduct themselves.

Reports flying everywhere about how Blake, Hill, Kaman and Pau (going on 3 years now) are available. One thing is certain, they're all expirings. So if they wanted their Bird Rights, they already had them. If they wanted to open up cap for free agency, they already had that too with these expiring deals.

So the motive had to be, that they lost a ton of assets via picks with the Dwight/Nash deals and wanted to get some back. Essentially, try to get inexpensive assets, cause apparently Mitch has been snoozing on that concept for quite some time and just realized through his GM buddies how valuable they are now.

But after whiffing on that attempt, he comes out and states how they want to open up time to their guards (ahem...trading one guard for two...I'm confused)....how they want to open up flexibility for free agency (ahem...premature Kobe extension...I'm confused)...how they want to make sure they aren't tied down by deals that will lead to them hovering at 41-41 (ahem....3 year guaranteed deal for a 38 year old Nash at the time....I'm confused).....how its unacceptable to conduct salary dumps and not perform basketball operated moves (ahem....we're loaded with expirings that could have landed us a deal similar to the Granger one...I'm confused).

Now we got players who knew they were trade fodder, who didn't get moved. They are expressing how it feels good to be wanted by other teams. They will be unrestricted this summer and we will be at their mercy....yet management wants the fanbase to believe that we increased our flexibility with their Bird Rights....(ahem....didn't we have Bird Rights last summer too on a particular free agent and how did that work out for us....I'm confused)!

Actually scratch that...I think the FO is confused....so stop feeding us BS that they don't even believe themselves.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:56 pm

Doc Brown wrote:At least my dude gets to stay here for another 28 games. :jam2:

Please fire MDA, so we can keep him next year.

Dave McMenamin ‏@mcten 3m
Jordan Hill on all the trade interest in him: "It feels good to be wanted. It feels good to be liked."
Expand Reply Retweet


MDA will get the insulation of injury and transition to protect his butt another year or two is my guess. Mitch's capitulation that we will stay under the cap means that he will not be expected to produce next year either…. so more insulation. What's even more chilling is that this will mean that our personnel decisions will be made with his system in mind….. Look for a vet min to be thrown at Boris Diaw this offseason….. in place of Jordan Hill :bang:
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:01 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Real, I get what you're saying...but what they did wrong is how they choose to conduct themselves.

How so? They are a business and they've conducted themselves as such all season. They made their players available, but so does every team. There's no hard feelings, you just do what you have to.

Vasashi17 wrote:Reports flying everywhere about how Blake, Hill, Kaman and Pau (going on 3 years now) are available. One thing is certain, they're all expirings. So if they wanted their Bird Rights, they already had them. If they wanted to open up cap for free agency, they already had that too with these expiring deals.

It was either a) keep them and their Bird Rights making them easier to sign or b) trade them for assets.

I firmly believe that this is the right course of action.

Vasashi17 wrote:So the motive had to be, that they lost a ton of assets via picks with the Dwight/Nash deals and wanted to get some back. Essentially, try to get inexpensive assets, cause apparently Mitch has been snoozing on that concept for quite some time and just realized through his GM buddies how valuable they are now.
I'm not sure that's true. We used our picks at a shot at a title and got screwed. A gamble that didn't pay off. It was still a GREAT gamble. Any time you have a shot at acquiring the kind of talent we had last season, you do it; even if you have to mortgage your future for a chance at now. Especially when the face of your franchise is getting long in the tooth.

Retrospectively we can all judge those moves negatively, but they were the right moves at the time and I would have made them pretty much the exact same way. As for not realizing the value of 2nd round picks... I think the Lakers have made great use of their 2nd rounders in recent years. Kelly, Sacre, and Ebanks were all rotation players at some point in time for one reason or another.

Vasashi17 wrote:But after whiffing on that attempt, he comes out and states how they want to open up time to their guards (ahem...trading one guard for two...I'm confused)....

PGs- Blake, Nash, Farmar, Marshall
SGs- (blank up until Meeks came back yesterday)

We got rid of one and added two of ANOTHER type of guard.

Vasashi17 wrote:how they want to open up flexibility for free agency (ahem...premature Kobe extension...I'm confused)...
I wouldn't say premature. I'd say overpaid though.
Vasashi17 wrote:how they want to make sure they aren't tied down by deals that will lead to them hovering at 41-41 (ahem....3 year guaranteed deal for a 38 year old Nash at the time....I'm confused).....
Again that's incredible 20/20 vision of the past my friend.

We signed him to a deal that made way more sense when Kobe and Pau were healthy. Not to mention, Nash was the ONLY player signed that far in advance including Kobe at the time. We'd still have premium cap flexibility. And at the time of the signing Nash was averaging a double-double in points and assists while shooting over 50% from the field still.

Vasashi17 wrote:how its unacceptable to conduct salary dumps and not perform basketball operated moves (ahem....we're loaded with expirings that could have landed us a deal similar to the Granger one...I'm confused).
That's a good point. They tried with Kaman apparently, but couldn't get a deal done. I'm guessing their asking price for Pau was probably too high and THAT is a mistake. I'd prefer if they brought him in.

But you have to keep in mind also that we're trying to get a draft pick now. That's the narrative of the FO and of course it had to play in to what they were looking for in trades. Maybe they determined that bringing in Turner would mean more wins than they wanted. That coupled with them demanding a pick back for Pau is probably what kept the deal from happening.

But I concede that is one mistake.

Vasashi17 wrote:Now we got players who knew they were trade fodder, who didn't get moved.
Happens everywhere around the league all the time.
Vasashi17 wrote:They are expressing how it feels good to be wanted by other teams.
Of course they are also saying that they like LA, love their teammates, and want to stay here, but you didn't mention that part.
Vasashi17 wrote:They will be unrestricted this summer and we will be at their mercy....yet management wants the fanbase to believe that we increased our flexibility with their Bird Rights....
We don't care about them. This summer is about getting a draft pick for the future and a FA that we can build a Championship team around. Hill, Kaman, and Pau aren't part of that plan anyway. BUT in the event that we strike out on every available FA, we have their Bird Rights to give them a decent contract.
Vasashi17 wrote:(ahem....didn't we have Bird Rights last summer too on a particular free agent and how did that work out for us....I'm confused)!
Do/did you really want to keep him here? Everything I've read says he wanted the Lakers to choose between himself and Kobe. Do you want that here? Do you think the Lakers wanted that here?

Vasashi17 wrote:Actually scratch that...I think the FO is confused....so stop feeding us BS that they don't even believe themselves.

You're very angry at them, but I disagree with your assessment of this current situation. The Pau/Turner thing is definitely a miss, but I'm not upset at all with the other decisions made. Not in the slightest.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:14 pm

He must have thought the ball was MDA's head tonight. Just swatting everything into the 5th row. :jam2:
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Weezy on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:15 pm

Like everyone else his energy ramped up in the 4th. Loved seeing those blocks, would like to see more of that from him.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Weezy on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:56 pm

Jordan "what month is this now?" Hill. :man10: Ireland had to tell him it's February, that was great.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Helljumper on Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:23 am

Dude's a flat out beast. One of the best back-up bigs in the league. Potential GOAT to be quite honest.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby LakersN4 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:59 am

Glad we didn't give him up for nothing.. Would be great to see him stick around for what he's making or less.
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:13 pm

So was Jordan playing 6+ minutes against Memphis (with Kaman unavailable) because he had some injury or just Dan being Dan?
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:13 am

^ Dan being Dan
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Re: J-Hill: Still a Laker

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:17 am

LTLakerFan wrote:So was Jordan playing 6+ minutes against Memphis (with Kaman unavailable) because he had some injury or just Dan being Dan?


Without Kaman available it was clear that Wes Johnson needed to play against Marc and Zack. With the Lakers being outrebounded by 20+ last game it is clear we needed to stretch the defenders out to the 3 point line. Then there is 1 less rebounder on the floor for Mem. J HIll would clog the paint and thus give more boards. Dan at all time genius level.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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