How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:54 am

Like last night. They didn't even want to send this guy to the line last night.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby Weezy on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:40 am

I don't expect Dwight to keep shooting them that well, 15 for 19 is ridiculously good for him, but I would at least like to see him at 60% consistently.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby kray28 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:45 am

Maybe Person is getting through to him on the technique?

If so, it could be huge.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:56 am

I'd agree with you if the player is a jumpshooter. Big men who primarily score in the paint on hooks and slam dunks aren't normally very good free throw shooters. Guys like Kareem (72FT% career) and Bynum (70FT% the last 5 years) are exceptions to the rule.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby MusixFinest on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:20 am

^Agreed. Here's a baseball analogy. Why is it that most pitchers can't hit if their life depended on it?
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby hdtvset on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:00 pm

Yao Ming hit over 80% FT.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:27 pm

hdtvset wrote:Yao Ming hit over 80% FT.


He was a jumpshooter too. So you can expect him to be able to shoot FT's.

Guys like Dwight, who primarily score on dunks and hooks, don't typically use 2 hands to shoot a basketball.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:30 pm

lakerswiz wrote:There is no excuse for being in the NBA and not being able to shoot 75-80% from the line.

No excuse at all.

If he's at 55-65% at the end of the season I'm going to be pissed.


did you hold that standard for Bynum? cause he didn't shoot 75-80%
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:32 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:I'd agree with you if the player is a jumpshooter. Big men who primarily score in the paint on hooks and slam dunks aren't normally very good free throw shooters. Guys like Kareem (72FT% career) and Bynum (70FT% the last 5 years) are exceptions to the rule.

I don't care if they aren't normally good at it. Or if they don't shoot jumpshots.

It is a free throw. I can make 10 in a row with my eyes closed. There is no excuse. It is literally the same thing every single time.

There is no excuse for it.


You aren't Dwight. If it was easy for these bigs to shoot FT's, why is it that Wilt, Moses, Shaq, and other strictly B2B bigs who rarely ever shot jumpers in a game struggle from the FT line?
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:33 pm

khmrP wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:There is no excuse for being in the NBA and not being able to shoot 75-80% from the line.

No excuse at all.

If he's at 55-65% at the end of the season I'm going to be pissed.


did you hold that standard for Bynum? cause he didn't shoot 75-80%


And neither did Kareem. It's rare to find strictly B2B bigs that don't shoot jumpers who shoot 70FT% from the line. Much less 80FT%.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby 432J on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:35 pm

how did they get around the hack a shaq? last time i checked, shaq was a horrendous FT shooter yet the lakers were pretty successful around that time

i really dont think there is any way to drastically improve dwight's FT shooting at this point
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby SK8 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:37 pm

Once we start winning, you guys won't look so much at stats. Dwight will be fine, i'm not worried at all about this hack a Dwight thing. :pipe:
@432J, that is what i'm saying. People will keep complain about stats, until we start winning. Your post tell's everything. Shaq was :hurl: but we still get that W
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby XXIV on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:41 pm

Dwight making his FTs would make the wins come much easier, which will lead to less playing time for our starters. I'd be happy if he hit just 60% of his FTs.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:53 pm

You're expectations are still too high wiz.

There's probably not 5 low post big men in the game right now shooting 75-80%. I'd say there's probably a bunch floating around in the 60s and 70s and if one of those bunch could be Howard, we'd be in good shape.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby ElginTheGreat on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:04 pm

Dwight just has to hit the free throws. Even 65 to 70% shooting would probably get them to lay off of the strategy.

Speeding up the tempo wouldn't hurt either though.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:09 pm

lakerswiz wrote:Nonetheless...

There is no excuse for being in the NBA and not being able to shoot 75-80% from the line.


then expected to be PISSED :man3:
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby bystander on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:11 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're expectations are still too high wiz.

There's probably not 5 low post big men in the game right now shooting 75-80%.

That in no way means my expectations are too high.

The numbers go up with correct form and practice. I expect that from professional NBA players.


lakerswiz is right.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:15 pm

revgen wrote:
Lakers808 wrote:i heard reggie miller say that the reason why big men usually shoot bad at the ft line is because they have big hands but bynum must have big hands also and his shooting touch at ft line is pretty sweet so no excuses. Come on dwight! :bang:


Ever seen Bynum shoot a jump shot? His jumper is almost always too flat. That's because the ball comes out of his big palms and doesn't roll all the way off his huge fingers. At the FT line, he rests the ball on his fingers instead of the palm of his hand. That way when he releases the ball it rolls off his fingers better.

Dwight's problem isn't his hands, they're average size for a big IMO. He's not releasing it high enough and he's flicking his wrist too quickly without letting the ball roll off his fingers. The too fast flicking wrist also affects his jump hooks, which look flat as hell even though they manage to go in.


Kareem shot over 70% all the time with hands bigger than either of them.... also the Sky Hook was predicated on the finger tip release.... Dr. J had huge hands and he was just fine from the line as well....

It's excuse making IMO..... Short guys compensate..... slow guys compensation..... guys who can't jump well compensation..... why would having large hands be the only thing you can't work around?....

In watching Howard's first two games from the line..... he had consistent form and release in the first game and missed a ton of free throws..... most of them badly. His form and release point was not only different in the second game it was inconsistent from free throw to free throw.... and most of them went in....

Form and release point kind of go out the window as well when you get to guys like Marion who shoots a "jump-chest" shot for a free throw.....

It's more mental than physical IMO.... Howard was dialed in on the offensive end last night.... for what ever reason in the opener he wasn't....

How do we control it..... we don't really. We couldn't with Shaq and we won't be able to with Howard for most of the game. The one exception would be down the stretch in close games by limiting his touches and centering the offense on Kobe and Nash. Even then if he gets a defensive rebound he will be fouled immediately..... It's part of having Howard on the team..... It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:15 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're expectations are still too high wiz.

There's probably not 5 low post big men in the game right now shooting 75-80%.

That in no way means my expectations are too high.

The numbers go up with correct form and practice. I expect that from professional NBA players.


It's above their competency levels. Somethings may seem simple, but if there's no basis to judge that off of, then how can you expect it?

I'm not saying that it's okay for them to shoot that percentage, but expecting more from them is setting yourself up for failure. Especially since there's no historical evidence to suggest they can do better. I expect a 4th grader to be able to write in cursive, but if they have shown to evidence of ability and haven't been taught it then I cannot reasonably expect them to know it.

Howard has to be retaught his free throw shooting. And since there's a reasonable expectation that he's never been told he needs to practice it daily (by coaching staff), I'm guessing it's a new experience for him. Expecting 75-80% is too much.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:28 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
khmrP wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:Nonetheless...

There is no excuse for being in the NBA and not being able to shoot 75-80% from the line.


then expected to be PISSED :man3:

We aren't already?


you might be, I consider what he does the norm......there's no player out there that doesn't have a weakness this is Howards weakness.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:37 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're expectations are still too high wiz.

There's probably not 5 low post big men in the game right now shooting 75-80%.

That in no way means my expectations are too high.

The numbers go up with correct form and practice. I expect that from professional NBA players.


Big men have multiple responsibilities. Defensive anchor, rebounder, post-up skills, passing out of double-teams, outlet passing, pick setting, etc. It's a position that requires a lot of skill to play correctly. Most of what they focus on is defense, rebounding, and footwork/skills in the post. Big long tall bodies also need more time spent in the gym to build muscle on their massive frames so they can carry the weight that they need to establish themselves inside. FT shooting is probably the last thing they work on since the other skills/attributes I mentioned before are more prized by the organizations that pay them.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:19 pm

lakerswiz wrote:Excuses. Everything you just listed is an excuse.

There are no excuses.


Those are not excuses. They are priorities. All of which are more important than FT shooting for a low-post big man.

Unless you expect a low-post big man to prioritize FT shooting ahead of all of the other skills I listed above, you can't expect them to be shooting 80FT% from the line.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby jimbo327 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:48 pm

We need to hire a good shooting coach for Dwight Howard. I don't know who is showing him how to shoot, but he is short arming all of the shots. The elbow needs to be completely extended at the completion of the shot when you shoot consistently. You start with the L shape with the elbow, then when you finish your shot...the elbow is fully extended each time...along with the snap of the wrist. When you see Dwight shoot, when he finishes his shot...his elbow is still not fully extended. You will not be consistent in shooting like that. He is basically flicking his shot only with his wrist with no full extension of the elbow. That is wrong. Until that is corrected, he won't shoot a high percentage.
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:01 am

Well FTs should become a priority when you are terrible at it ...Lakerswiz is right here
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Re: How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

Postby ZenMaster4President on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:47 am

lakerswiz wrote:Excuses. Everything you just listed is an excuse.

There are no excuses.


Why are you so edgy and heavy on usage of the word "excuses" lately?

There is a very large sample size of big men not shooting a high percentage. I pretty sure not all of them were lazy and didn't work out
on their games. I am also pretty sure they were surrounded and coached by some relatively knowledgeable people. Yet somehow, despite
you making it sound so easy - almost none of them managed to go over that absolutely arbitrary mark of yours.

There are two possibilities here as I see them:

1. All of them didn't understand proper preparation and game expanding like you do or didn't care about it
2. Something else, like coaches deciding that in a limited amount of practice time the effort is better spend elsewhere, for example?

WDYT? I tend to go with the latter.
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