How do we get around Hack-A-Dwight?

ElginTheGreat · by **ElginTheGreat** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:04 pm

Dwight just has to hit the free throws. Even 65 to 70% shooting would probably get them to lay off of the strategy.

Speeding up the tempo wouldn't hurt either though.

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:09 pm

lakerswiz wrote:Nonetheless...

There is no excuse for being in the NBA and not being able to shoot 75-80% from the line.

then expected to be PISSED :man3:

bystander · by **bystander** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:11 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're expectations are still too high wiz.

There's probably not 5 low post big men in the game right now shooting 75-80%.

That in no way means my expectations are too high.

The numbers go up with correct form and practice. I expect that from professional NBA players.

lakerswiz is right.

Rooscooter · by **Rooscooter** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:15 pm

revgen wrote:
Lakers808 wrote:i heard reggie miller say that the reason why big men usually shoot bad at the ft line is because they have big hands but bynum must have big hands also and his shooting touch at ft line is pretty sweet so no excuses. Come on dwight!

Ever seen Bynum shoot a jump shot? His jumper is almost always too flat. That's because the ball comes out of his big palms and doesn't roll all the way off his huge fingers. At the FT line, he rests the ball on his fingers instead of the palm of his hand. That way when he releases the ball it rolls off his fingers better.

Dwight's problem isn't his hands, they're average size for a big IMO. He's not releasing it high enough and he's flicking his wrist too quickly without letting the ball roll off his fingers. The too fast flicking wrist also affects his jump hooks, which look flat as hell even though they manage to go in.

Kareem shot over 70% all the time with hands bigger than either of them.... also the Sky Hook was predicated on the finger tip release.... Dr. J had huge hands and he was just fine from the line as well....

It's excuse making IMO..... Short guys compensate..... slow guys compensation..... guys who can't jump well compensation..... why would having large hands be the only thing you can't work around?....

In watching Howard's first two games from the line..... he had consistent form and release in the first game and missed a ton of free throws..... most of them badly. His form and release point was not only different in the second game it was inconsistent from free throw to free throw.... and most of them went in....

Form and release point kind of go out the window as well when you get to guys like Marion who shoots a "jump-chest" shot for a free throw.....

It's more mental than physical IMO.... Howard was dialed in on the offensive end last night.... for what ever reason in the opener he wasn't....

How do we control it..... we don't really. We couldn't with Shaq and we won't be able to with Howard for most of the game. The one exception would be down the stretch in close games by limiting his touches and centering the offense on Kobe and Nash. Even then if he gets a defensive rebound he will be fouled immediately..... It's part of having Howard on the team..... It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:15 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're expectations are still too high wiz.

There's probably not 5 low post big men in the game right now shooting 75-80%.

That in no way means my expectations are too high.

The numbers go up with correct form and practice. I expect that from professional NBA players.

It's above their competency levels. Somethings may seem simple, but if there's no basis to judge that off of, then how can you expect it?

I'm not saying that it's okay for them to shoot that percentage, but expecting more from them is setting yourself up for failure. Especially since there's no historical evidence to suggest they can do better. I expect a 4th grader to be able to write in cursive, but if they have shown to evidence of ability and haven't been taught it then I cannot reasonably expect them to know it.

Howard has to be retaught his free throw shooting. And since there's a reasonable expectation that he's never been told he needs to practice it daily (by coaching staff), I'm guessing it's a new experience for him. Expecting 75-80% is too much.

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:28 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
khmrP wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:Nonetheless...

There is no excuse for being in the NBA and not being able to shoot 75-80% from the line.

then expected to be PISSED

We aren't already?

you might be, I consider what he does the norm......there's no player out there that doesn't have a weakness this is Howards weakness.

revgen · by **revgen** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:37 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You're expectations are still too high wiz.

There's probably not 5 low post big men in the game right now shooting 75-80%.

That in no way means my expectations are too high.

The numbers go up with correct form and practice. I expect that from professional NBA players.

Big men have multiple responsibilities. Defensive anchor, rebounder, post-up skills, passing out of double-teams, outlet passing, pick setting, etc. It's a position that requires a lot of skill to play correctly. Most of what they focus on is defense, rebounding, and footwork/skills in the post. Big long tall bodies also need more time spent in the gym to build muscle on their massive frames so they can carry the weight that they need to establish themselves inside. FT shooting is probably the last thing they work on since the other skills/attributes I mentioned before are more prized by the organizations that pay them.

revgen · by **revgen** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:19 pm

lakerswiz wrote:Excuses. Everything you just listed is an excuse.

There are no excuses.

Those are not excuses. They are priorities. All of which are more important than FT shooting for a low-post big man.

Unless you expect a low-post big man to prioritize FT shooting ahead of all of the other skills I listed above, you can't expect them to be shooting 80FT% from the line.

jimbo327 · by **jimbo327** on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:48 pm

We need to hire a good shooting coach for Dwight Howard. I don't know who is showing him how to shoot, but he is short arming all of the shots. The elbow needs to be completely extended at the completion of the shot when you shoot consistently. You start with the L shape with the elbow, then when you finish your shot...the elbow is fully extended each time...along with the snap of the wrist. When you see Dwight shoot, when he finishes his shot...his elbow is still not fully extended. You will not be consistent in shooting like that. He is basically flicking his shot only with his wrist with no full extension of the elbow. That is wrong. Until that is corrected, he won't shoot a high percentage.

wcsoldier81 · by **wcsoldier81** on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:01 am

Well FTs should become a priority when you are terrible at it ...Lakerswiz is right here

ZenMaster4President · by **ZenMaster4President** on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:47 am

lakerswiz wrote:Excuses. Everything you just listed is an excuse.

There are no excuses.

Why are you so edgy and heavy on usage of the word "excuses" lately?

There is a very large sample size of big men not shooting a high percentage. I pretty sure not all of them were lazy and didn't work out
on their games. I am also pretty sure they were surrounded and coached by some relatively knowledgeable people. Yet somehow, despite
you making it sound so easy - almost none of them managed to go over that absolutely arbitrary mark of yours.

There are two possibilities here as I see them:

1. All of them didn't understand proper preparation and game expanding like you do or didn't care about it
2. Something else, like coaches deciding that in a limited amount of practice time the effort is better spend elsewhere, for example?

WDYT? I tend to go with the latter.

ZenMaster4President · by **ZenMaster4President** on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:13 pm

Well, I can just hope, for your sake, that you hold yourself to the same high standards.

Also, you contradict yourself. You can't say - "coaches are not responsible and it's players' responsibility to practice" and then go and say that "they practice it wrong".

Well, guess what - that's what coaches and assistant coaches and shooting coaches are for - show how to practice right. Yet it doesn't happen. I am also positive that if 20 minutes a night (I wonder, you keep pulling numbers out of somewhere - is there some sort of research?) were enough, most would be shooting those 80% you want them to.

But alas, it doesn't happen. But that is probably some sort of excuse, I am guessing.

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:15 pm

they should do hack a DJ tonight :man12:

Chillbongo · by **Chillbongo** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Easy.

Start Dwight &Jamison. Bring in Pau (at the 5) and Hill (or leave Jamo in). End game situations where the game is tight, swoop Dwight for Pau at the 5 again. Choose your 4 depending on matchups.

Solves two problems. Pau in the post, and limiting Hack-A-Dwight opportunities.

Come on Pringles. Don't wait for Nash's return before adjusting. He ain't no miracle--though he made you look like a great coach.

blakeruns · by **blakeruns** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:12 pm

did anyone ever see the sportscience where they had Sasha Vujacic standing on stilts with giant gloves on and he still nailed the FTs?

heck they even blindfolded him!

Chillbongo · by **Chillbongo** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:23 pm

Easy.

Start Dwight &Jamison. Bring in Pau (at the 5) and Hill (or leave Jamo in). End game situations where the game is tight, swoop Dwight for Pau at the 5 again. Choose your 4 depending on matchups.

Solves two problems. Pau in the post, and limiting Hack-A-Dwight opportunities.

Come on Pringles. Don't wait for Nash's return before adjusting. He ain't no miracle--though he made you look like a great coach.

Weezy · by **Weezy** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:22 pm

There is no other way than what we saw tonight, he has to just make them. If they're fouling him and he's missing 2, then making 1 out of 2 for a few times, they'll keep doing it if they keep scoring because they're trading 1 point for 2. IF he makes 2 in a row a few times, they'll stop.

Lakerjones · by **Lakerjones** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:33 pm

Hack a Dwight or Hack a Howard doesn't work for me aesthetically. Hack a Shaq worked because of the rhyme.

I'm going with Smite a Dwight from now on.

Ariza3 · by **Ariza3** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:39 pm

didn't work tonight bc he made both. just gotta do that or at least 1/2 consistently. no 0-2 trips to line and I think well be okay

432J · by **432J** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:44 pm

why can't dan tony just take out dwight when they start fouling and put in pau? (when healthy)

is it really that easy and dan tony doesn't get it? or am i missing something here?

GoldHammish · by **GoldHammish** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:59 pm

432J wrote:why can't dan tony just take out dwight when they start fouling and put in pau? (when healthy)

is it really that easy and dan tony doesn't get it? or am i missing something here?

You're missing something: the bulk of the discussion of the past day or so....

King of Clutch · by **King of Clutch** on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:07 pm

I honestly do believe that if dwight can be a 65-75% ft shooter, he could be the greatest center to ever play from then on. He would just be UNSTOPPABLE. He won't be stopped offensively, and defensively he's already 1 or 1A. His dominance would be unmatched. Kobe brought this up recently in an interview. If I was him and thought about this, that would seriously motivate me to get better. Because its the truth.

Lakerfantilidie · by **Lakerfantilidie** on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:27 am

Chillbongo wrote:Easy.

Start Dwight &Jamison. Bring in Pau (at the 5) and Hill (or leave Jamo in). End game situations where the game is tight, swoop Dwight for Pau at the 5 again. Choose your 4 depending on matchups.

Solves two problems. Pau in the post, and limiting Hack-A-Dwight opportunities.

Come on Pringles. Don't wait for Nash's return before adjusting. He ain't no miracle--though he made you look like a great coach.

This could work but I think the biggest reason for not doing this is the Lakers want Dwight to be happy and to resign so they don't. However, this has never been seen before but has been available, just suprised no coach has done it. Often when teams go to the hack a shaq, howard, or whoever, the other team has a player on the floor that can't shoot free throws either. Why not hack that person every time they do it to howard, then it becomes a free throw shooting contest between two bad free throw shooters.

432J · by **432J** on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:09 am

GoldHammish wrote:
432J wrote:why can't dan tony just take out dwight when they start fouling and put in pau? (when healthy)

is it really that easy and dan tony doesn't get it? or am i missing something here?

You're missing something: the bulk of the discussion of the past day or so....

which is?

MC · by MC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:12 am

Real easy

Coach has to have the testicular fortitude to sit his behind in the 4th once they are in the bonus until the 2 minute mark.

They have another 7 footer with a spread 4 to put out there during those moments where teams try and deploy it.

Until Howard can hit FTs you continue to do this.........................

simple.

This question is just another example of MDA being no better than Brown as as coach overall................ he rides the coat tails of superstars and that's about it. take away Nash from his Suns days or LBJ from his Olympic team and you are left with a simpleton for an "offensive genius" with an abysmal record as a coach in North America .

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