Jeremy Lin Discussion

Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby abeer3 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:05 pm

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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby Battle Tested20 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:34 pm

khmrP wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:
khmrP wrote:Lin sounds like the Tebow of basketball in that documentary.

if someone doesn't like the religious side of the documentary. Just separate it from what he does on the basketball court.

It's not that hard.


he doesn't seperate it from what he does on the court cause he everything he does well on the court is because of "religion" factor. and didn't say I like or dislike, just an observation.


I know, I wasn't pointing the finger at you or anyone specific, just "some" people may look at it that way.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby khmrP on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:03 pm

dam the more I find out about the "asset" we got for Lin the less I like Lin.....I mean dam Utah got 2 unprotected 1st to dump similar amt of salary just a year ago so they could get enough money for Iggy. Granted cap hit of Lin is only half of RJ/Biendrens but true cost is bout the same and all we could get is a top 20 protected 1st and a 2nd thats highly unlikely to get conveyed. If Lin has similar impact here as he did in Hou, I dont think the trade would be worth it.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:31 pm

khmrP wrote:dam the more I find out about the "asset" we got for Lin the less I like Lin.....I mean dam Utah got 2 unprotected 1st to dump similar amt of salary just a year ago so they could get enough money for Iggy. Granted cap hit of Lin is only half of RJ/Biendrens but true cost is bout the same and all we could get is a top 20 protected 1st and a 2nd thats highly unlikely to get conveyed. If Lin has similar impact here as he did in Hou, I dont think the trade would be worth it.


Houston put Lin on the back burner after he had a pretty decent season with them his first year. After that, he got injured and they benched him behind Beverly and it went downhill from there after his role declined. Even in his declined role, he still put up a decent showing. You only heard what came out of the mouth of Harden and Howard, the two "stars" running that sh#$ show.

The "unprotected" pick Utah got was from Golden State, unless they somehow traded Curry and the rest of their core, that pick is right next to Houston's pick...and it's in 2017. The Houston pick lands in 2015, and it's highly doubtful they miss the playoffs, and if by any chance, it was because of us, I wouldn't have a damn care in the world.

I'd rather be the playoffs than a draft pick that'll probably be 13-15 anyway.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby khmrP on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:38 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:dam the more I find out about the "asset" we got for Lin the less I like Lin.....I mean dam Utah got 2 unprotected 1st to dump similar amt of salary just a year ago so they could get enough money for Iggy. Granted cap hit of Lin is only half of RJ/Biendrens but true cost is bout the same and all we could get is a top 20 protected 1st and a 2nd thats highly unlikely to get conveyed. If Lin has similar impact here as he did in Hou, I dont think the trade would be worth it.


Houston put Lin on the back burner after he had a pretty decent season with them his first year. After that, he got injured and they benched him behind Beverly and it went downhill from there after his role declined. Even in his declined role, he still put up a decent showing. You only heard what came out of the mouth of Harden and Howard, the two "stars" running that sh#$ show.

The "unprotected" pick Utah got was from Golden State, unless they somehow traded Curry and the rest of their core, that pick is right next to Houston's pick...and it's in 2017. The Houston pick lands in 2015, and it's highly doubtful they miss the playoffs, and if by any chance, it was because of us, I wouldn't have a damn care in the world.

I'd rather be the playoffs than a draft pick that'll probably be 13-15 anyway.

doesn't matter where it ends for me I'm just annoyed Mitch gave in to so much protection and the 2nd pick is prettty unlikely to come our way, it has to fall within a range of 5 picks and its Tor. they'll be good but not good enough to fall within that weird range.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby NomisR on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:52 pm

khmrP wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:dam the more I find out about the "asset" we got for Lin the less I like Lin.....I mean dam Utah got 2 unprotected 1st to dump similar amt of salary just a year ago so they could get enough money for Iggy. Granted cap hit of Lin is only half of RJ/Biendrens but true cost is bout the same and all we could get is a top 20 protected 1st and a 2nd thats highly unlikely to get conveyed. If Lin has similar impact here as he did in Hou, I dont think the trade would be worth it.


Houston put Lin on the back burner after he had a pretty decent season with them his first year. After that, he got injured and they benched him behind Beverly and it went downhill from there after his role declined. Even in his declined role, he still put up a decent showing. You only heard what came out of the mouth of Harden and Howard, the two "stars" running that sh#$ show.

The "unprotected" pick Utah got was from Golden State, unless they somehow traded Curry and the rest of their core, that pick is right next to Houston's pick...and it's in 2017. The Houston pick lands in 2015, and it's highly doubtful they miss the playoffs, and if by any chance, it was because of us, I wouldn't have a damn care in the world.

I'd rather be the playoffs than a draft pick that'll probably be 13-15 anyway.

doesn't matter where it ends for me I'm just annoyed Mitch gave in to so much protection and the 2nd pick is prettty unlikely to come our way, it has to fall within a range of 5 picks and its Tor. they'll be good but not good enough to fall within that weird range.


Gave in so much? You realize that the only reason we picked up Lin was because the Lakers gave Houston the best deal out there right? We picked up Lin for nothing, got a lottery protected 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick. If he asked for more, we likely would've ended up with nothing.

And considering that Houston has a good chance of making the playoffs, we at least have a #15 pick.

Also, when you look at our roster last year, or the past 10 years, he's going to be our best PG, that's a huge improvement! So we improved our team, got assets and gave up nothing. AND he kept our cap space for 2015!! This is a no lose situation. I can't believe people are actually getting pissed at this trade.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby khmrP on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:57 pm

NomisR wrote:Gave in so much? You realize that the only reason we picked up Lin was because the Lakers gave Houston the best deal out there right? We picked up Lin for nothing, got a lottery protected 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick. If he asked for more, we likely would've ended up with nothing.

And considering that Houston has a good chance of making the playoffs, we at least have a #15 pick.

Also, when you look at our roster last year, or the past 10 years, he's going to be our best PG, that's a huge improvement! So we improved our team, got assets and gave up nothing. AND he kept our cap space for 2015!! This is a no lose situation. I can't believe people are actually getting pissed at this trade.


well asking for more is probably why Philly couldn't get the deal done, Mitch is the $2dollar [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] who came into the deal cause the $5 [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] (philly) wouldn't do it for $2 dollars :man10: ....and readeal mention its top 20 protected not just lottery, if thats legit then we still might not get the pick if Hou staggers. Also read the stipulation of the 2nd pick its very unlikely we get it.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby NomisR on Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:07 pm

khmrP wrote:
NomisR wrote:Gave in so much? You realize that the only reason we picked up Lin was because the Lakers gave Houston the best deal out there right? We picked up Lin for nothing, got a lottery protected 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick. If he asked for more, we likely would've ended up with nothing.

And considering that Houston has a good chance of making the playoffs, we at least have a #15 pick.

Also, when you look at our roster last year, or the past 10 years, he's going to be our best PG, that's a huge improvement! So we improved our team, got assets and gave up nothing. AND he kept our cap space for 2015!! This is a no lose situation. I can't believe people are actually getting pissed at this trade.


well asking for more is probably why Philly couldn't get the deal done, Mitch is the $2dollar [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] who came into the deal cause the $5 [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] (philly) wouldn't do it for $2 dollars :man10: ....and readeal mention its top 20 protected not just lottery, if thats legit then we still might not get the pick if Hou staggers. Also read the stipulation of the 2nd pick its very unlikely we get it.


Everything I've been reading shows lottery protected for 2015, top 10 protected for 2016/17, top 5 2018/19.

You might be confusing it with the pick Houston got from the Pelicans that's top 3 protected, and they only get the pick if it was 4-19.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby abeer3 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:40 pm

I'm kinda with Khmer on this one. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I felt like the lakers were the patsies here. philly--whose gm has been morey's errand boy in the past--asked for more than what the lakers did.

gotta be about the money. they figure they're going to lose a lot again, but folks will tune in for lin, making him worth the 15 million.

if it were me negotiating, I would have demanded the higher of NO's and Houston's pick next year. or I just go sign isaiah Thomas for less money.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:42 pm

1. We didn't want to commit to big lengthy contracts like the one Isiah got ($32M/4years). Especially for an undersized scoring guard? No thanks.

2. Why does the Lin move have to be about money and not his game? Sure he has a bigger fanbase than the norm, but he's more than capable than the everyday guard. Why does he have to get discounted? Because Dwight and Harden put the blame in his hands? Because McHale didn't know how to properly use a point guard? Everything about Jeremy Lins career has always been like this. It's disgusting. Oh, we just signed him for money or for ratings, all because he has a bigger fanbase. BS, outside of Fisher being a perfect triangle guard, Lin is probably the best PG skillwise we've had in awhile, unless you can prove me otherwise.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby laakers on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:22 pm

So excited we got him! Don't understand the hate. We haven't had a PG this good since... I've been alive? Unless you count Payton. Only difference is, Lin isn't at the prime of his career yet.

Yeah, we have quite the comedic crew... Nash, Lin, Young, Sacre, maybe Randle, and of course old Kob' will bring it all together... :D
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby LakerJack on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:42 pm

Right now Lin is the worst starting pg in the NBA.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby jlkr on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:53 pm

Somebody still pining for Isaiah Thomas? Are you jiving me? That guy is so not worth tying up for $28m/4 years. The way to the Promised Land is definitely NOT through contracts like that. Some people are just impossible to please.

Lin's cap hit is not the full $15m anyway, it's only $8m if I heard correctly. Less than Nash. Both of whom are off the books after the season. But if Lin likes it here and has a decent season, I could see him on a Nick Young style reasonable deal, that would leave room for a big time player coming here.

Don't forget Lin is really good at pick and roll, but Coward hates playing that way plus him and Harden kept pointing fingers at him. Scott likes PG's and has coached a lot of pick and roll with his previous PG's. So Lin gets to go back to his bread and butter plays, he gets to learn more nuances of it from Nash and Kobe, he won't have toxic teammates like he did in Houston. What's not to like, oh wait, somebody doesn't want him here, thinks we got rooked big time. I don't think so...

Worst starting PG in the NBA? The haterade in strong in this one...
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby TIME on Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:12 am

LakerJack wrote:Right now Lin is the worst starting pg in the NBA.


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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby LakersN4 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:35 am

Definitely not the worst starting PG.. Jameer Nelson, Calderon, George Hill, Beverly, Jennings, Collison, Burke are all worse.. Teague & Oladipo pretty close. Lin is right in the middle of the pack.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby abeer3 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:21 am

lakerfan2 wrote:1. We didn't want to commit to big lengthy contracts like the one Isiah got ($32M/4years). Especially for an undersized scoring guard? No thanks.


lin's a scoring guard who can't defend his position...like Thomas...except not as good at scoring. as for the years--I don't care. we saw what cap space can net you this year: MOAR CAP SPACE NEXT YEAR! I'd rather try to build a team than keep waiting for superman.

not to mention that all the furor about unmovable contracts has been vastly overblown. supposedly, jose calderon was unmovable after signing a similar deal to Thomas's last year...teams willing to operate over the cap to win have clowned some of the cap space hoarders in recent years, imo. gs almost snagging Dwight out of nowhere should have been the sign everyone needed: you don't have to hoard cap space when some hopeful bottom feeder will do it for you. those guys will rent their space to you for useless things like late first rounders...oh wait...those guys are now the lakers. dammit.

2. Why does the Lin move have to be about money and not his game? Sure he has a bigger fanbase than the norm, but he's more than capable than the everyday guard. Why does he have to get discounted? Because Dwight and Harden put the blame in his hands? Because McHale didn't know how to properly use a point guard? Everything about Jeremy Lins career has always been like this. It's disgusting. Oh, we just signed him for money or for ratings, all because he has a bigger fanbase. BS, outside of Fisher being a perfect triangle guard, Lin is probably the best PG skillwise we've had in awhile, unless you can prove me otherwise.


because his game isn't that strong? imo, he's really a backup pg. you can only name a handful of teams in the league (3 or 4 maybe) that would start lin over their current pg. and being the best pg the lakers have had is a dubious distinction--he's better than old fisher, chucky atkins, tierre brown, smush parker, Jordan farmar, darius morris, and the like? hooray?

but again, my issue with the lin trade was the lakers being the team willing to take the lowball asset in tow. I said before the trade ever happened: the team that won Jeremy lin really lost, because they folded before the other interested parties. that was the lakers this time.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby abeer3 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:12 am

LakersN4 wrote:Definitely not the worst starting PG.. Jameer Nelson, Calderon, George Hill, Beverly, Jennings, Collison, Burke are all worse.. Teague & Oladipo pretty close. Lin is right in the middle of the pack.


calderon's better, as is hill. Teague is way better. Beverly plays defense and also beat him out for a starting job. collision has produced VERY similarly the past two years, and burke was a rookie last year.

like I said, maybe 3 or 4 teams don't have lin as a backup.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:36 am

TIME wrote:
LakerJack wrote:Right now Lin is the worst starting pg in the NBA.


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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby LakersN4 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:43 am

abeer3 wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:Definitely not the worst starting PG.. Jameer Nelson, Calderon, George Hill, Beverly, Jennings, Collison, Burke are all worse.. Teague & Oladipo pretty close. Lin is right in the middle of the pack.


calderon's better, as is hill. Teague is way better. Beverly plays defense and also beat him out for a starting job. collision has produced VERY similarly the past two years, and burke was a rookie last year.

like I said, maybe 3 or 4 teams don't have lin as a backup.

Calderon is an offense only player that averages 10-4, Hill is a career 10 & 3 guy that plays just as solid on defense as Lin, Beverly only played over Lin because their starting lineup had 2 superstars in it - you go with the defensive role player next to no D Harden, & on & on.. you are seriously reaching with every 1 of these. If you don't like Lin just say you don't like Lin.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:01 am

I don't know what to expect. But it will be an exciting season with JLin around. Not a fan but he will probably have a better Laker career than Nash :man10:
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby abeer3 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:08 am

LakersN4 wrote:
abeer3 wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:Definitely not the worst starting PG.. Jameer Nelson, Calderon, George Hill, Beverly, Jennings, Collison, Burke are all worse.. Teague & Oladipo pretty close. Lin is right in the middle of the pack.


calderon's better, as is hill. Teague is way better. Beverly plays defense and also beat him out for a starting job. collision has produced VERY similarly the past two years, and burke was a rookie last year.

like I said, maybe 3 or 4 teams don't have lin as a backup.

Calderon is an offense only player that averages 10-4, Hill is a career 10 & 3 guy that plays just as solid on defense as Lin, Beverly only played over Lin because their starting lineup had 2 superstars in it - you go with the defensive role player next to no D Harden, & on & on.. you are seriously reaching with every 1 of these. If you don't like Lin just say you don't like Lin.


calderon has more pure pg in his pinky finger than lin has in his body. if it's not drive and kick, lin doesn't know what he's doing at point. calderon is also one of the league's best 3pt shooters. hill's a better defender, and you can rationalize it all you want, but Beverly started over lin.

these aren't reaches. in fact, I forgot to mention that Brandon Jennings is also better offensively and equally bad on the other end, thus better overall. sorry, this list is just really long.

you accuse me of personal bias; I accuse you of same. dude's just not a starting nba pg. the fact that we can debate his place among the league's worst starting pgs is kind of a clue.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby trodgers on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:21 am

I spent the morning crunching some numbers.

Among 45 players who started as many games as Lin at PG last year, Lin was tied for 16th in FG%, 25th in 3pt%, and 17th in FT%. He was overall the 19th best shooter.

Among the same players Lin was 31st in assist rate, 13th in turnover rate, and 22nd in ast/to ratio. He was overall 22nd in passing measures.

Among the same players, his ORtg was 20th, his DRtg was 23th, and his differential was 24th. In terms of offensive/defensive measures, he was 24th overall.

3-4 teams where he would/should start seems low. Seems more like about 9. This puts Lin in the third tier among PGs, but he's high in that tier.

So he's not just a body and money. He's not just a better PG than (any) Fisher, Smush, Atkins, Marshall, and broken Nash. He's a legitimate NBA starter at PG.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby khmrP on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:24 am

Lin the last 2 years in Hou is probabaly the Lin we're gona get, I'm not gona use the Coach didn't know how to use him excuse or the Harden/Howard making him look bad stuff, cause Parson his supposed BFF on that team also use to yell and look at Lin funny too when things went bad. I'm also not gona bash Lin either, he will be very servicable and pretty much our best PG since maybe Van Excel.
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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby trodgers on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:31 am

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Re: Jeremy Lin Discussion

Postby khmrP on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:59 am

abeer3 wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:MOAR CAP SPACE NEXT YEAR! I'd rather try to build a team than keep waiting for superman.



I agree with the 1st part of this...we're pretty much gona be replicating Dall, even with our "history" we didn't manage to much interest with our cap space. Dall cap space plan has been going on for almost 4 years now and they FINALLY got a MAX player on board, unfortunately for them it was Parson :man10: . With the new CBA in place its gona be rare for true max players to leave their old team, we just happened to be the 1st team to actually lose on that restriction thanks to whatever internal issues with Howard situation, which in itself speaks alot of where we've come as an organization.
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