Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby 432J on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:24 am

i've long maintained that as long as jim buss is calling the shots, this team isn't winning crap

he ruined the team for the long run
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:44 am

Oh boy It's like Clublakers is a giant casting for a movie called " The blame game".

I personally blame two persons for our struggles and lack of energy

-Lawrence Tanter : - It's obvious his announcement is way too classy, boring and lacks swag ... I think our team will be much better with a " your number 24 , the blaaack , blaaack , blaaack mamba , Kobe Bryant" type of announcer ... I think Coach Dave Miller rapping our starting 5 introduction is the best option out there

- Lisa Estrada has to go ... it's obvious her more and more mediocre choice of the Lakers girls team can't energize playas like Pau and D12 enough ... Hugh Hefner would be a nice replacement

PS : Gary Vitti isn't a real doctor ... go get Hugh Laurie or Andre Young
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Nikez on Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:51 am

:man10: :jam2:
Before long, someone recognized Phil Jackson sitting in the front seat, and then the rocks began to fly. Revelers pelted the bus and shook it, mocking the Lakers at their lowest moment.


It was painful,” Lakers forward Pau Gasol(notes) said. “It is a feeling that I want to keep in my mind for every single minute that I’m out there playing them.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby MC on Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:36 am

Jim Buss and FO have one issue and one issue only.........

They can get talent......... that is not the issue.

They can draw talent........ that is not the issue.

The real issue shows up when they are hand picking coaches........ that is where the issue is. That is where you find out how much you actually know about the small details that make you an actual basketball mind. This is what sets up your philosophy so you can build up talent towards......... that is where they show they are just shoot from the hip kind of decision makers..... they actually don't understand the game of basketball itself...their success has come when they have lucked out between atrocious quick decision, shoot from the hip coaching decisions. Shoot from the hip is not a philosophy built on knowledge, it is a philosophy built on chance. THAT is the issue IMO and when you than think about the ego stokes they have had with the couple lucky coaching hires (outside of Jackson, that was a no brainer when they first brought him in the fold) since taking more predominant roles as FO decision makers (aka after West left) than you can clearly see why we are where we are at this very moment...........

Now what they better do is be patient and not screw up the future which will be in 2 years........ don;t go trade Gasol this year to find guys that fit MDA...... demand that your coach actually coach and wait until next year if some good future pieces are in play for his services as an attractive expiring or even better find an ACTUAL COACH and not a coat tail rider like Brown or MDA and utilize him until he's your expiring right at the right time for a major Free Agent market in 2 years........
"If the wolf is the strength of the pack, the pack is the strength of the wolf"
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby MC on Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:45 am

432J wrote:i've long maintained that as long as jim buss is calling the shots, this team isn't winning crap

he ruined the team for the long run


actually this team is well positioned for the long haul.........

If, IF ........ they show some testicular fortitude these next 2 years and just ride out Braynt and Gasol's services.

.... if they panic to try and salvage the MDA hire by making moves this year than that highlighted part will actually play out........ This could happen too if this team finds it's way out of the playoff race, they might go for the instant cap relief and just dump Gasol which would be the worse thing you could do for the long haul.....

Things are going to get very interesting over the next 2 months........

Lets see if the decision makers have some testicular fortitude as a hole............ The future is bright if they don't go, panic and try and bluff their way out of this poor hand they dealt themselves with the MDA hire. They need to eat this hand and make the best of it so they can go for gusto again in 2 years with a totally new look in a great FA market.
"If the wolf is the strength of the pack, the pack is the strength of the wolf"
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:23 am

Are you people for real? For the last time Jerry Buss hired not Pringles NOT Jim. It has been said several times already. People just ignore facts to fit their pathetic agendas.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby MC on Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:43 am

texas - don't get hung up on who's fault it is rather focus on what is actually happening. Defender of Jim, I can care less which Buss way responsible.... i just know a Buss is. Between you and me...like it or not, Jimmy's office door has a title on it and it's been said that he has been taking over basketball operations..... that title gets the blame whether you like it or not. I mentioned FO in respect but make no mistake about it..... the guy with the title gets the blame, owners can never blame themselves....... especially ones with egos and Jerry still holds that title as owner......even if that means the Son gets put under the bus.

Pi-polar move by the FO suggests someone overrode someone for sure.... there is no way a good basketball mind undermines himself and does a 180 u-turn in philosophy after amassing vet talent. Only a shoot from the hip genius does this type of move... which one it is doesn't matter to me but I'm 100% sure his last name has Buss and that's all that matters here.....Jimmy or Daddy.... it matter s not.... the problem is the GM, who is the basketball mind amongst the 3, is being handicapped by these 2. That was crystal clear when they came out and said this was a unified decision in hiring MDA OVER THE PHONE before it was even posed as a question by the media......

and what's the pathetic agenda exactly? wanting to win and play a style of ball that fits the current roster?
wanting the FO to pick a direction PHILOSOPHY WISE in the off-season and STICK with it instead of going all bi-polar on us? next will be trading Gasol this year when his value will be clearly higher next year as an expiring based on his cap hit..... than I'll know the koo-koo has gone and left the clock.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby cthroatgtr on Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:59 am

You can blame Buss all you want but they did bring in Dwight and Nash and have a massive payroll. Sometimes you pay for sins later and right now the team has a problem. Too many high paid old guys on this team. Have they done poorly with coaches? Definitely. I really think D'antoni has Jerry Buss written all over it. Jerry like a lot of older Laker fans are still clamoring for "Showtime". Personally I think NY should have shown us what D'antoni is as a coach. With the right players his system can be fun and win, but he does not adjust for the personnel. A team with too dominant bigs do not want a run and gun offense. Doesn't work. I was shocked they decided on D'antoni (forget about Phil any other coach would probably have made more sense).

Sometimes it doesn't work. Houston tried this as well with Pippen, Barkley and Olajawon and that didn't work either.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby JGC on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:16 am

While their coaching selections have been less than admirable, with the exception of Phil Jackson, who out there is really a slam dunk candidate that would have all but guaranteed success?

I mean, I think the thought was this team is talented enough in its roster, that you wouldn't need a "coach" coach to teach these guys how to play. Just a guy who can tinker with a few things and let these guys play which, Mike Brown wasn't doing.

If you think about it ... we were horrible with MB, over controlling the offense, no emphasis on showtime type of basketball, and so they went and got someone who is the exact opposite and it's the same result. We tried a slow it down, defense first type of approach and it didn't work. Then we tried a speed it up, offense first approach and that doesn't work. I think they took a gamble with the roster thinking the talent acquired alone would get us where we want to be and you just needed a coach who was smart enough to just let them play but as I said from the very beginning of the season, it should be clear the roster is just flawed.

I dont' blame the FO for that though. Everyone thought wow, Nash/Kobe/D12/Pau is ridiculous and some made arguments that it might have been the best team (on paper) ever assembled. Just shows, you have to play the games because until they did, how could you know they'd be the worst Laker team assembled in over a decade?
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:40 am

MC wrote:texas - don't get hung up on who's fault it is rather focus on what is actually happening. Defender of Jim, I can care less which Buss way responsible.... i just know a Buss is. Between you and me...like it or not, Jimmy's office door has a title on it and it's been said that he has been taking over basketball operations..... that title gets the blame whether you like it or not. I mentioned FO in respect but make no mistake about it..... the guy with the title gets the blame, owners can never blame themselves....... especially ones with egos and Jerry still holds that title as owner......even if that means the Son gets put under the bus.

Pi-polar move by the FO suggests someone overrode someone for sure.... there is no way a good basketball mind undermines himself and does a 180 u-turn in philosophy after amassing vet talent. Only a shoot from the hip genius does this type of move... which one it is doesn't matter to me but I'm 100% sure his last name has Buss and that's all that matters here.....Jimmy or Daddy.... it matter s not.... the problem is the GM, who is the basketball mind amongst the 3, is being handicapped by these 2. That was crystal clear when they came out and said this was a unified decision in hiring MDA OVER THE PHONE before it was even posed as a question by the media......

and what's the pathetic agenda exactly? wanting to win and play a style of ball that fits the current roster?
wanting the FO to pick a direction PHILOSOPHY WISE in the off-season and STICK with it instead of going all bi-polar on us? next will be trading Gasol this year when his value will be clearly higher next year as an expiring based on his cap hit..... than I'll know the koo-koo has gone and left the clock.


:jam2: To all of it.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby snackdaddy on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:43 am

We don't really know what went on behind the scenes with Phil Jackson. If he was really asking for the moon and sky, then yes I can see Jerry Buss having a hand in this. He's not the kind of guy to let players or coaches try and force his hand.

Then again, it could be a personal thing between Jim Buss and Jackson. Its pretty clear their relationship was a cool one at best. Its quite possible he has a hard on for Phil and he gladly stuck it to him by hiring another coach and having Mitch call him at midnight to tell him.

Whatever the case, its not like they're not trying. It was a well meaning experiment. Who wouldn't want 4 all stars with at least 3 of them hall of famers? But it didn't work. Age, Injuries and just plain incohesiveness derailed that.

These guys are not the type of players who can all play together. Plus, Dwight is no where near 100 percent. Will he ever be? Wouldn't bother me a bit if they just blew it all up and let Dwight go. Start new after Kobe's contract is done. Get back in the first round and pick up some young talent.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby 432J on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:49 am

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Are you people for real? For the last time Jerry Buss hired not Pringles NOT Jim. It has been said several times already. People just ignore facts to fit their pathetic agendas.

i refuse to believe that and i very highly doubt it's true. its just a rumour

so you support jim buss?
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:59 am

MC wrote:Jim Buss and FO have one issue and one issue only.........

They can get talent......... that is not the issue.

They can draw talent........ that is not the issue.

The real issue shows up when they are hand picking coaches........ that is where the issue is. That is where you find out how much you actually know about the small details that make you an actual basketball mind. This is what sets up your philosophy so you can build up talent towards......... that is where they show they are just shoot from the hip kind of decision makers..... they actually don't understand the game of basketball itself...their success has come when they have lucked out between atrocious quick decision, shoot from the hip coaching decisions. Shoot from the hip is not a philosophy built on knowledge, it is a philosophy built on chance. THAT is the issue IMO and when you than think about the ego stokes they have had with the couple lucky coaching hires (outside of Jackson, that was a no brainer when they first brought him in the fold) since taking more predominant roles as FO decision makers (aka after West left) than you can clearly see why we are where we are at this very moment...........

Now what they better do is be patient and not screw up the future which will be in 2 years........ don;t go trade Gasol this year to find guys that fit MDA...... demand that your coach actually coach and wait until next year if some good future pieces are in play for his services as an attractive expiring or even better find an ACTUAL COACH and not a coat tail rider like Brown or MDA and utilize him until he's your expiring right at the right time for a major Free Agent market in 2 years........


^^ I can't even tell you how much I agree with you. But I do! Big +1 for me.

Jim Buss has done a GREAT job IMO alongside Mitch in making personnel decisions. Where he has fallen short, and hopelessly so, is in his coaching hires, not just the picks but the way he is doing it - in a rush, and disrespecting good people in the process such as Brian Shaw and of course Phil (and the fans).

I wish he would have let Mitch make the coaching picks. We would have Adelman after Phil and we would have been in a much better position right now.

The coaching hires have been run in a very impulsive way - no real diligence at all.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:07 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
V.V.V.V.V. wrote:If only Jimmy would just sign the checks and get out of Mitch's way.


This thread is hilarious.

Assemble an impressive roster with a ton of talent: Mitch is a god.
Hire coaches we don't like: Jim is the devil.


I don't see anything funny about it at all, especially that post. If Jim Buss had let Mitch pick the previous coach it would have been Adelman. That's not hilarious, that's sad. I also highly doubt Mitch would have chosen Mike D' Antoni given the roster that he has painstakingly assembled that doesn't fit his system at all.

So if you're cool with Mike Brown and D' Antoni as the best possible candidates and best decisions and the way Phil was stabbed in the back in the last hire, then cool. This is all pure comedy then.

To me it's tragedy.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby 432J on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:10 am

Lakerjones wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
V.V.V.V.V. wrote:If only Jimmy would just sign the checks and get out of Mitch's way.


This thread is hilarious.

Assemble an impressive roster with a ton of talent: Mitch is a god.
Hire coaches we don't like: Jim is the devil.


I don't see anything funny about it at all, especially that post. If Jim Buss had let Mitch pick the previous coach it would have been Adelman. That's not hilarious, that's sad. I also highly doubt Mitch would have chosen Mike D' Antoni given the roster that he has painstakingly assembled that doesn't fit his system at all.

So if you're cool with Mike Brown and D' Antoni as the best possible candidates and best decisions and the way Phil was stabbed in the back in the last hire, then cool. This is all pure comedy then.

To me it's tragedy.

best post i've read on this thread by far
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:47 pm

^The point is the twisting of facts to support an agenda. Everything we've read has said Mitch & Jim work together with input from Dr. Buss on larger decisions.

A lot of fans pin moves they don't like 100% on Jim and credit moves they like 100% to Mitch. That's the joke and its funny.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby borri on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:26 pm

One thing we know for SURE. If it is Jim Buss.....dude can't hire coaches for ish.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:04 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:^The point is the twisting of facts to support an agenda. Everything we've read has said Mitch & Jim work together with input from Dr. Buss on larger decisions.

A lot of fans pin moves they don't like 100% on Jim and credit moves they like 100% to Mitch. That's the joke and its funny.


Thank you for clarifying Lakerman JSJ. I get that. I just don't think that all fans or posters are doing that here. To me, though, it's been pretty clear thus far where most of the credit and the blame lies. Jim and Mitch both deserves credit for the personnel decisions. However, the coaching hires have been different. The first one that Jim Buss was in charge of made sense on paper, Rudy T. but ended badly. Phil had to be called back in to restore order. The second coaching hire was also Jim Buss' decision. Left to their own devices both Mitch and Jerry have said that they supported hiring Adelman. Jim Buss on his own met with Mike Brown and decided to hire him. Yes, he got the other two on board, but it was his decision. Firing Mike Brown was apparently Jerry's call. Also apparently was the Mike D' Antoni choice of hire according to Jerry at least. But clearly Jim's feud with Phil came into play here. And the way the hire went down with Phil getting the rejection on Sunday at midnight with his agent flying in on a red eye from NY has Jim Buss's fingerprints all over it.

So credit where it's due, Jim Buss has made some good calls on players like Jordan Hill and Sessions, and also has shown the willingness to spend on guys like Howard and Nash. He also showed some guts in staying with Bynum until we could move him for Howard, and also in his swing for the fences trade of Pau and LO for Chris Paul. But his coaching hires have been atrocious. We get the good and the bad.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:45 pm

^Thats a fair & well-reasoned post. Thanks for the post. I'm not a blind optimist, but I also am not ready to call D'Antoni a failure this soon. Jury is still very much out (though I have concerns).
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Maluco Beleza on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:31 pm

Tanter does suck
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby dmaul on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:57 pm

If I made three colossal screw ups at work I'd really start questionning myself and debate if I should even be in this line of work. If you were Jim Buss, at what point would you realize you suck at making decisions on hiring coaches, completely swallow your pride, hand the keys of the franchise over to Mitch for full control, retreat from public life and crawl back into your hole, content to write checks and cash them. Could be that may be the only hope we have to salvage the future of the Lakers.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:48 pm

Whoever hired Brown and Dantoni are lacking basketball common sense. I know it can't be Mitch. So it has to be Jimbo. As long as he's leading the team, i won't have faith in the direction the team is headed. Just can't believe he can be this .......
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Lqv2015 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:54 pm

What I :disagree: the most is that we could've have the Zen Master back. If there was such a switch, it'd better be on a time machine so we could undo this whole mess. :man6:
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby khmrP on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:56 pm

How come this guy no where to be seen/heard from when things go awry?
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Weezy on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:02 am

khmrP wrote:How come this guy no where to be seen/heard from when things go awry?


To be fair he's an owner,they're supposed to be behind the scenes. I prefer that style to the Mark Cuban/Jerry Jones style where you wish they'd shut up and go away.
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