Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby 24fanyes on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:15 pm

can somebody plz punch this Jim Buss guy in the face?
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby GoatMilk16 on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:17 pm

I blame Jerry Jones and Al Davis for this
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby lotus on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:22 pm

kray28 wrote:If we still had Lamar, we'd be better even with Brown's retarded offense. Having Lamar means we easily have 5-6 more wins right now.

If we ran an offense actually suited to our personnel (Adelman or Shaw as coach), we'd be leading the Conference right now.

No doubt in my mind.

What Jimmy Bust has done == ruin a dynasty. He needed just a few months to do it. This is why you don't your kids play with your grown up toys.

Very well said.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Jporkel on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:06 pm

What a great, virtually fact-free thread! :bang:
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby TIME on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:07 pm

kray28 wrote:
If we ran an offense actually suited to our personnel (Adelman or Shaw as coach), we'd be leading the Conference right now.

No doubt in my mind.



We could have Abner Doubleday as coach and there is no way we would have a better record than OKC with the present lineup and Fish + MWP constituting 40% of our starters.

That said, I would have preferred either Adelman or Shaw to Brown.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby TIME on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:08 pm

Jporkel wrote:What a great, virtually fact-free thread! :bang:


Welcome to the internet.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby tttppp on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:36 pm

Doberman wrote:
kray28 wrote:I understand that Jimmy also likes to take credit for the drafting of Andrew Bynum...pretty laughable stuff. He latched onto the Drew bangwagon after Ronnie Lester did all the scouting legwork on Drew and brought him to the team's attention in the first place.


It's pointless to dissect this type of credit. By that logic, West doesn't get credit for getting Kobe since it was one of his scouts that recommended he check him out. Bottom line is, once Bynum was on the radar, Jim pulled rank and said "He's our guy". Credit where credit's due.


How do you know who did what during any tenure? You were not part of the Laker organization.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby brickshooter on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:43 pm

IMO, Jim Buss is one of the greatest scouts out there. He did a commendable job scouting Bynum and I am prepared to give him 100% credit.

Therefore, I want Jim to be promoted to president of scouting. Had he been scouting last year, I've little doubt that Jim would have brought in Jeremy Lin.

Therefore, Jim should leave the Front Office to Mitch, then start up the Scouting department. BTW I hear that the Lakers prior scouting department were laid off.

Mitch --> GM.
Jim --> President of player evaluation.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby tttppp on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:44 pm

I don't think the problem is Jim Buss. I think the big problem is the lack of Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson provided a structure to the organization, so you knew which players you needed to win a championship. You don't get that under Mike Brown. Its clearly guesswork with Mike Brown and his system. You really don't know what players you need in his system. Also, its clear Mike Brown is a yes man. He's not going to stand up to Jim Buss, just like he never stood up to Lebron.

Also, another thing that is lacking is the financial backing of the owners. The Lakers have let a lot of good players go the past few years for nothing in return. You simply can't do that and expect to win.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby lotus on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:48 pm

Jporkel wrote:What a great, virtually fact-free thread! :bang:

You do realize that CL would be 1/10th its size if fact sources were required for every post right? Hey, even my figure of 1/10th is not supported by fact. :man1:
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:53 pm

Jporkel wrote:What a great, virtually fact-free thread! :bang:


:man10: :man10: :man10:

WIN
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby venturalakersfan on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:01 am

kray28 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:Jim isn't going anywhere. I don't remember these critics the past 4 seasons with Jim as the GM.


Jim isn't the GM....he's Vice President of Player Personnel or something. He is, for the lack of a better phrase: ownership meddling on the basketball side of things.

You know, the stuff Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder get heat for all the time.

It's one thing for ownership to be involved on the business side like Jeannie is...that's to be expected, but ownership actively being involved in player/personnel/scouting/talent evaluation....that's not something I think is a good idea.

If they are unhappy with Mitch, they need to let him go and bring in another reputable GM, otherwise, Jimmy needs to butt his head out of basketball operations and leave that to Mitch.


That's Jim's job.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby venturalakersfan on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:04 am

BadCoaching wrote:The worst thing Jim has done is bring in Mike Brown. Terrible coach for these players, he's not adjusting and continues to ask players to do things they can't and shouldn't be doing. Odom is on Mitch and Jim, there was a different way to solve that problem, or at least get a better return on the deal. Cuban defused our bench and stole our reliability guy, they don't even need Odom. You can't fix stupid overnight. The season is scarred with those failures, even bringing in superstars doesn't guarantee victory with this coach in place. He's that bad IMO.

This team is over .500 on the pure talent of Kobe/Pau/Andrew alone. The rest of the team sucks, or are ineffective because of no play time or improper usage.


Odom is on Odom, he is the one who reacted like a teenage girl and got all butt hurt. Watch him play in Dallas, they guy has checked out, he is giving about a 50% effort. Better him doing that on the Mavs than on the Lakers.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby venturalakersfan on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:08 am

tttppp wrote:I don't think the problem is Jim Buss. I think the big problem is the lack of Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson provided a structure to the organization, so you knew which players you needed to win a championship. You don't get that under Mike Brown. Its clearly guesswork with Mike Brown and his system. You really don't know what players you need in his system. Also, its clear Mike Brown is a yes man. He's not going to stand up to Jim Buss, just like he never stood up to Lebron.

Also, another thing that is lacking is the financial backing of the owners. The Lakers have let a lot of good players go the past few years for nothing in return. You simply can't do that and expect to win.


I think part of the problem now is Phil Jackson. It is no doubt that he stirred things up in the Buss family, that is why Jerry was so eager to drop him when we lost to the Pistons. The guy has left turmoil in Chicago and in LA twice. Other coaches have come and gone from both franchises without that happening, the only common denominator is Phil.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby venturalakersfan on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:08 am

bruddahmanmatt wrote:
Jporkel wrote:What a great, virtually fact-free thread! :bang:


:man10: :man10: :man10:

WIN


Fans can't let the facts get in the way of a good rant. And I'm not pointing fingers without looking in the mirror first.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Turbo on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:04 am

I'm most upset about Jim's hiring of Mike Brown and his man-crush on Bynum. What's Brown's specialty? Defense. Is Bynum more committed to offense or defense? Offense! How is that combination going to carry the Lakers into the future? Their (Brown/Bynum) specialties don't coincide
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby extreme on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:16 am

So what's this thread is about is firing Coach Brown?
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby tttppp on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:19 am

venturalakersfan wrote:
tttppp wrote:I don't think the problem is Jim Buss. I think the big problem is the lack of Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson provided a structure to the organization, so you knew which players you needed to win a championship. You don't get that under Mike Brown. Its clearly guesswork with Mike Brown and his system. You really don't know what players you need in his system. Also, its clear Mike Brown is a yes man. He's not going to stand up to Jim Buss, just like he never stood up to Lebron.

Also, another thing that is lacking is the financial backing of the owners. The Lakers have let a lot of good players go the past few years for nothing in return. You simply can't do that and expect to win.


I think part of the problem now is Phil Jackson. It is no doubt that he stirred things up in the Buss family, that is why Jerry was so eager to drop him when we lost to the Pistons. The guy has left turmoil in Chicago and in LA twice. Other coaches have come and gone from both franchises without that happening, the only common denominator is Phil.


Please elaborate. This doesn't make sense to me.

First of all Phil has never been fired from any job. In his second term in L.A., he got a huge pay raise...what I believe is the highest salary ever for a coach. If you look at the Bulls and Lakers, they were in turmoil AFTER Phil was there. There was no major problems when he was there. The Bulls still haven't recovered from the loss of Phil Jackson. I don't see how its his fault. If the Bulls needed help, they should have asked Phil Jackson to come back.

If the Lakers really want to figure out how to win a championship, if they took back Phil Jackson, I'm sure he'd instantly give them a plan on how to get back to a championship.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Turbo on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:26 am

extreme wrote:So what's this thread is about is firing Coach Brown?


Nah, I'll save that for another thread. I'm just saying that Jim's decisions aren't consistent with building a good team
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Jporkel on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:41 am

Turbo wrote:I'm most upset about Jim's hiring of Mike Brown and his man-crush on Bynum. What's Brown's specialty? Defense. Is Bynum more committed to offense or defense? Offense! How is that combination going to carry the Lakers into the future? Their (Brown/Bynum) specialties don't coincide


I disagree with your assumption that Bynum's not committed to defense. I don't see that as I watch games.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Turbo on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:24 am

Jporkel wrote:
Turbo wrote:I'm most upset about Jim's hiring of Mike Brown and his man-crush on Bynum. What's Brown's specialty? Defense. Is Bynum more committed to offense or defense? Offense! How is that combination going to carry the Lakers into the future? Their (Brown/Bynum) specialties don't coincide


I disagree with your assumption that Bynum's not committed to defense. I don't see that as I watch games.


I wouldn't say he's not committed, but more that he lacks the quickness/abilities to be a defensive force (like Dwight). I'm just wondering why Jim hired a defensive guy as head coach when his intended franchise player comes up short on that side of the ball
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:27 am

Dwight's defensive abilities over Bynum is probably the same with Bynum's offensive skills over Dwight.

They're two different types of centers.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby Turbo on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:38 am

lakerfan2 wrote:Dwight's defensive abilities over Bynum is probably the same with Bynum's offensive skills over Dwight.

They're two different types of centers.

No doubt, I'm just saying I don't think Mike Brown was the best fit for the Lakers next franchise player, which calls to question Jim's basketball analysis/sense of logic. My point is not to advocate Dwight for Bynum, or to fire Brown.
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Re: Jim Buss = End of the Lakers as we know them...

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:05 pm

And to a degree, not a bad direction.

We're the top rebounding team. We're one of the top defenses in the league.

The players are having a problem adjusting to a new coach, what's so unexpected about that? Especially coming off a complex system like the triangle which a few got, it's going to be a change. We have new players with new roles, and some players are declining.

Brown really isn't to blame here, it's an adjustment period. Sure Brown has made some questionable decisions, but he's trying to figure out the dynamics of this team on the fly. Without a summer camp, there's little time to find out rotations, integrate a new offensive scheme, all the while building chemistry with players in the midst of trade talk.

It's all a mess right now. But one thing has been consistent, it's our defense. Which is a good sign.
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