Jordan Hill Discussion: Back for 2 yr/$18 mil

Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby LakerBoyz24 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:50 am

Not too excited about this big first round bust. If he gives us something extra, that's great but I wouldn't be expecting much from this guy. He's a bench player at best though, and I don't see him sticking into the rotation as of now. He didn't get much time for a reason, and even when he had numerous chances he didn't perform well.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby karacha on Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:51 am

tttppp wrote:So maybe I should be running the Lakers. One thing is for sure, if I was running the Lakers, the product on the floor would be my number 1 priority.


Maybe. Give them a call and make sure you also E-mail them with your predictions. Maybe they will be impressed, you never know.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby khmrP on Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:15 am

FabFourLakers wrote:Glenn Taylor is an idiot....


thats what I'm saying :bang: dude was afraid of a 3.4mill opt in...like really? :man3: its not like people are lining up to sign in Minn :man10: . Crawford could have definetly help their playoff push, instead they rather save on the 3.4mill chance and hope that extra money is going to lure some marginal talent there. We are know Beasly wont be back in Minn, especially as a backup role, he might have accepted that role in LA as we're still winning but being young talent, you dont want to be a backup and still lose like he would in Minn.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby DirtySoap on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:17 am

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lak ... with-red94

Land of Lakers: The odds don't favor him actually entering the game, but can you describe Jordan Hill as a player after a couple of years as a Rocket?

Rockets Insider: He's a good rebounder--14th in the league in total rebound rate--and brings some energy in spurts. He also has the length to bother some people defensively in the post. Jordan's problem, and why he didn't make it with the Rockets, is that he lacks focus. He gets lost on the court, missing defensive assignments, not making necessary rotations etc. A team like the Lakers, already having strong areas, can afford to gamble on his talents. But for the Rockets, in a dogfight just to make the playoffs, Hill's mental lapses were not a risk they could any longer take.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby MusixFinest on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:21 am

Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25

Y'all do realize it will no longer be a dollar for dollar tax, right?? It can go as high as 4x (NOT just double) the amount we are over the salary cap. Currently, the Lakers are $24 million over the cap. If the new tax system were instituted today, the Buss family would be paying an additional $78 million back to the NBA. And if were to stay at that level the following year, they would be on the hook for $102 million.

Granted, the new tax system kicks in after both Odom's and Fish's contracts come off the books, but I do not blame the front office for unloading dead weight now to prepare themselves for what lies ahead. These are serious penalties for big-spending teams. Enough to scare even the richest of owners (i.e. Mark Cuban).
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby TIME on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:32 am

MusixFinest wrote:Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25

Y'all do realize it will no longer be a dollar for dollar tax, right?? It can go as high as 4x (NOT just double) the amount we are over the salary cap. Currently, the Lakers are $24 million over the cap. If the new tax system were instituted today, the Buss family would be paying an additional $78 million back to the NBA. And if were to stay at that level the following year, they would be on the hook for $102 million.

Granted, the new tax system kicks in after both Odom's and Fish's contracts come off the books, but I do not blame the front office for unloading dead weight now to prepare themselves for what lies ahead. These are serious penalties for big-spending teams. Enough to scare even the richest of owners (i.e. Mark Cuban).


Yeah I tend to be VERY generous in spending Dr. Buss' money, but even I recognize that 100 million in penalty money is just crazy.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby tttppp on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:23 am

karacha wrote:
tttppp wrote:So maybe I should be running the Lakers. One thing is for sure, if I was running the Lakers, the product on the floor would be my number 1 priority.


Maybe. Give them a call and make sure you also E-mail them with your predictions. Maybe they will be impressed, you never know.


Lol. That would be funny. Didn't Jim Buss get one of his scouts from bartending? Maybe getting someone from a discussion board is his next step.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:32 am

I think some fans have overlooked the new CBA .... the Buss family isn't going to pay the more punitive and repetitive taxes ... sure as a fan , you want the Lakers FO to put the best team possible on the floor at any cost but this era is over ... to improve the team by saving money or at least not taking back more salaries is very difficult to do ... we will see how Mitch will do with the Pau trade which is coming this summer without a doubt ... and as crazy as it sounds to amnesty Kobe is the possible next move ( especially if the FO thinks this team has little chance to win a title entering the 2013-2014 season ) .

Lakers as a whole organization have to re-think and change its way/model to be the best with the new CBA... they can't be the best by spending at "any cost" (the reasons Lakers success are more than that but still it was one of them)
Getting rid of our draft picks ( another move to save money) isn't the best way to start.
As an objective fan , you have to be aware that there is going to be a quite long transition and we may not win another title for some time ... unless we win it this year and/or Drew elevates his game again to another level ( let's say around a prime Duncan level)
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby FabFourLakers on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:37 am

therealdeal wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:
People must not have seen Jordan Hill play...but the dude is easily better than both McRob and Murphy....he can play pick and roll with ramon sessions...dude can finish at the rim. He just doesn't see enough minutes. When he DOES get PT, he gets a double double pretty easily. Dunno why ppl are sleeping on him. I sure hope Mike Brown doesn't.


Double doubles for the Rockets 2011-2012:

Dec 31: 11/15 in 28:23
Jan 10: 12/12 in 18:12
Jan 27: 10/10 in 18:37
Jan 28: 14/11 in 22:29

He had 15 games with over 15 minutes of play so that's 4/15 or 27%

2010-2011:

Nov 22: 14/10 in 21:54
Jan 17: 10/10 in 23:22

He played over 15 in 40+ games.

Not saying he can't be productive, but it's not a given.


Come on man that's a small sample size that we're working with...when your playing time isn't guaranteed, you aren't gonna play up to your potential. The guy needs more PT, and unfortunately he probably won't get it with the Lakers either. But I do think he's a nice big to have off the bench. We are deep with bigs, and we'll have some options next year as far as expirings (if we keep Hill, we'll have Hill, McRob, Bynum, Sessions, Eyenga, and Goudelock, totaling about $27M in expirings) so we'll have some flexibility there to acquire players plus we'll still have the Lamar Odom trade exception.

I'm not too worried about where we'll stand as far as flexibility next year...
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby tttppp on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:46 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:I think some fans have overlooked the new CBA .... the Buss family isn't going to pay the more punitive and repetitive taxes ... sure as a fan , you want the Lakers FO to put the best team possible on the floor at any cost but this era is over ... to improve the team by saving money or at least not taking back more salaries is very difficult to do ... we will see how Mitch will do with the Pau trade which is coming this summer without a doubt ... and as crazy as it sounds to amnesty Kobe is the possible next move ( especially if the FO thinks this team has little chance to win a title entering the 2013-2014 season ) .

Lakers as a whole organization have to re-think and change its way/model to be the best with the new CBA... they can't be the best by spending at "any cost" (the reasons Lakers success are more than that but still it was one of them)
Getting rid of our draft picks ( another move to save money) isn't the best way to start.
As an objective fan , you have to be aware that there is going to be a quite long transition and we may not win another title for some time ... unless we win it this year and/or Drew elevates his game again to another level ( let's say around a prime Duncan level)


I don't think the new CBA is fair to the teams already over the cap. The rules make it very difficult to cut payroll. The only real way to cut payroll for the Lakers is to ask Kobe, Pau, or Bynum to take a pay cut. From what I heard, thats not even allowed. It may be best to get rid of Gasol and Kobe and start from scratch. That would allow you to then pay your stars a lower salary so you can afford to pay the rest of your players.

Right now the Lakers are doing the opposite. They are paying their stars (because they have to), but nothing is left over to pay the rest of their players. So they are stuck making silly deals like cutting Fisher's salary which isn't even that high, and selling draft picks. The Lakers are just better off starting from scratch than doing what they are doing.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:58 am

tttppp wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:I think some fans have overlooked the new CBA .... the Buss family isn't going to pay the more punitive and repetitive taxes ... sure as a fan , you want the Lakers FO to put the best team possible on the floor at any cost but this era is over ... to improve the team by saving money or at least not taking back more salaries is very difficult to do ... we will see how Mitch will do with the Pau trade which is coming this summer without a doubt ... and as crazy as it sounds to amnesty Kobe is the possible next move ( especially if the FO thinks this team has little chance to win a title entering the 2013-2014 season ) .

Lakers as a whole organization have to re-think and change its way/model to be the best with the new CBA... they can't be the best by spending at "any cost" (the reasons Lakers success are more than that but still it was one of them)
Getting rid of our draft picks ( another move to save money) isn't the best way to start.
As an objective fan , you have to be aware that there is going to be a quite long transition and we may not win another title for some time ... unless we win it this year and/or Drew elevates his game again to another level ( let's say around a prime Duncan level)


I don't think the new CBA is fair to the teams already over the cap. The rules make it very difficult to cut payroll. The only real way to cut payroll for the Lakers is to ask Kobe, Pau, or Bynum to take a pay cut. From what I heard, thats not even allowed. It may be best to get rid of Gasol and Kobe and start from scratch. That would allow you to then pay your stars a lower salary so you can afford to pay the rest of your players.

Right now the Lakers are doing the opposite. They are paying their stars (because they have to), but nothing is left over to pay the rest of their players. So they are stuck making silly deals like cutting Fisher's salary which isn't even that high, and selling draft picks. The Lakers are just better off starting from scratch than doing what they are doing.


yes you can't rebuild contracts so forget about Kobe, Pau and Drew taking a paycut ...
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby karacha on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:07 pm

tttppp wrote:Lol. That would be funny. Didn't Jim Buss get one of his scouts from bartending? Maybe getting someone from a discussion board is his next step.


Frankly, nothing would surprise me anymore.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby MusixFinest on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:52 pm

tttppp wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:I think some fans have overlooked the new CBA .... the Buss family isn't going to pay the more punitive and repetitive taxes ... sure as a fan , you want the Lakers FO to put the best team possible on the floor at any cost but this era is over ... to improve the team by saving money or at least not taking back more salaries is very difficult to do ... we will see how Mitch will do with the Pau trade which is coming this summer without a doubt ... and as crazy as it sounds to amnesty Kobe is the possible next move ( especially if the FO thinks this team has little chance to win a title entering the 2013-2014 season ) .

Lakers as a whole organization have to re-think and change its way/model to be the best with the new CBA... they can't be the best by spending at "any cost" (the reasons Lakers success are more than that but still it was one of them)
Getting rid of our draft picks ( another move to save money) isn't the best way to start.
As an objective fan , you have to be aware that there is going to be a quite long transition and we may not win another title for some time ... unless we win it this year and/or Drew elevates his game again to another level ( let's say around a prime Duncan level)


I don't think the new CBA is fair to the teams already over the cap. The rules make it very difficult to cut payroll. The only real way to cut payroll for the Lakers is to ask Kobe, Pau, or Bynum to take a pay cut. From what I heard, thats not even allowed. It may be best to get rid of Gasol and Kobe and start from scratch. That would allow you to then pay your stars a lower salary so you can afford to pay the rest of your players.

Right now the Lakers are doing the opposite. They are paying their stars (because they have to), but nothing is left over to pay the rest of their players. So they are stuck making silly deals like cutting Fisher's salary which isn't even that high, and selling draft picks. The Lakers are just better off starting from scratch than doing what they are doing.


It still makes more sense to keep your stars over your role players, even if your championship hopes diminish. You have to fill the seats somehow. And no one will come to watch a bunch of scrubs play for 48 minutes, 82 games a year.

But I would argue that the Lakers have a better team now than they did before the trade deadline, while being mindful of the impending tax hit in 2013. I have to give them credit for spending wisely and still making the fans relatively happy.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby tttppp on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:21 pm

TIME wrote:
MusixFinest wrote:Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25

Y'all do realize it will no longer be a dollar for dollar tax, right?? It can go as high as 4x (NOT just double) the amount we are over the salary cap. Currently, the Lakers are $24 million over the cap. If the new tax system were instituted today, the Buss family would be paying an additional $78 million back to the NBA. And if were to stay at that level the following year, they would be on the hook for $102 million.

Granted, the new tax system kicks in after both Odom's and Fish's contracts come off the books, but I do not blame the front office for unloading dead weight now to prepare themselves for what lies ahead. These are serious penalties for big-spending teams. Enough to scare even the richest of owners (i.e. Mark Cuban).


Yeah I tend to be VERY generous in spending Dr. Buss' money, but even I recognize that 100 million in penalty money is just crazy.


Why would the Busses agree to a CBA like that? Not only does it penalize you for overspending, the rules make it incredibly difficult to get back under the cap.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby XXIV on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:24 pm

^ I'm sure a majority of the owners agreed to it, or do all of the owners have to agree upon the new CBA?
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby tttppp on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:36 pm

XXIV wrote:^ I'm sure a majority of the owners agreed to it, or do all of the owners have to agree upon the new CBA?


I'm not sure. The new rules basically screw over anyone over the cap. You would think that the teams over the cap would demand that changes be put in place for them to get under the cap easily.

I really have no clue why they put these rules in place. Apparently they are upset about teams like the Lakers out bidding teams for free agents, but that has not been the case. The Lakers have largely developed their own players. They haven't gotten a big name free agent since Shaq.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby paperplanes on Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:55 pm

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but Jordan Hill is this years Joe Smith. Not only will he not get off the bench,there's no chance he's here next year.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby jamabile on Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:27 pm

I still can't figure out why he didn't play the last 4-5 minutes of this game. He seemed to bring energy and probably would have rebounded and played better defense than Murphy.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby DirtySoap on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:30 pm

I know people wanna hate on Jordan Hill because he's not Michael Beasley, but in that couple minutes he was in you could see that he brings something that's sorely been missing from the team this year. As the playoff intensity heats up, it will definitely help to have a legitimate backup big man that can come in and play with energy while focusing on defense and rebounding. There's minimal expectations for him, but if he can offer us a solid 15-20 minutes a night it could make a big difference at the end of games for Bynum and Gasol, especially if they have foul trouble from a tough matchup. Murphy has played fairly well and he allows us to stretch the floor a bit, but a guy like Hill anchoring the second unit would give it much more of an identity. If Mike Brown is supposed to be such a strong defensive coach, it'd be nice to see him figure a way to utilize the kid.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby therealdeal on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:04 pm

^ I hear ya, but 15-20 minutes where? In almost every game Gasol/Bynum are going to play close to 38 minutes each. That leaves only about 10 minutes at each position. Unless you play only him backing up both of those guys and have a constant rotation of Hill/Gasol/Bynum there's just not enough minutes.

I'd be happy with just between 5-10 minutes a night, but that probably won't happen.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby paperplanes on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:13 pm

Been watching Jordan play since he was in college. He has always had a real low basketball IQ. That will always be his biggest flaw. One minute he's fine the next he's running around missing defensive assignments and looking lost. That's just what he is. Very similar to Kwame, but not as athletic.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby tttppp on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:27 pm

paperplanes wrote:Been watching Jordan play since he was in college. He has always had a real low basketball IQ. That will always be his biggest flaw. One minute he's fine the next he's running around missing defensive assignments and looking lost. That's just what he is. Very similar to Kwame, but not as athletic.


Thats ok. Mike Brown loves players with low IQs. The dumber they are, the less they'll question his authority.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:30 am

tttppp wrote:
XXIV wrote:^ I'm sure a majority of the owners agreed to it, or do all of the owners have to agree upon the new CBA?


I'm not sure. The new rules basically screw over anyone over the cap. You would think that the teams over the cap would demand that changes be put in place for them to get under the cap easily.

I really have no clue why they put these rules in place. Apparently they are upset about teams like the Lakers out bidding teams for free agents, but that has not been the case. The Lakers have largely developed their own players. They haven't gotten a big name free agent since Shaq.


This is so far from the truth it's ridiculous. Drew, Goudelock, Ebanks and Morris are the only players on our roster who have been here since draft day, and you can include Bryant on that list if you ignore the fact that we technically traded Vlade for his draft rights (he was developed here after all). Beyond those five, Gasol, MWP, Blake, McBob, Barnes, Murph, Sessions, Hill and Eyenga were all acquired via trade.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby Vasashi17 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:17 am

MusixFinest wrote:Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25

Y'all do realize it will no longer be a dollar for dollar tax, right?? It can go as high as 4x (NOT just double) the amount we are over the salary cap. Currently, the Lakers are $24 million over the cap. If the new tax system were instituted today, the Buss family would be paying an additional $78 million back to the NBA. And if were to stay at that level the following year, they would be on the hook for $102 million.

Granted, the new tax system kicks in after both Odom's and Fish's contracts come off the books, but I do not blame the front office for unloading dead weight now to prepare themselves for what lies ahead. These are serious penalties for big-spending teams. Enough to scare even the richest of owners (i.e. Mark Cuban).


I'm sorry....dead weight?

Other than EVERYBODY not showing up last year, weren't Fish and LO key cogs in our last 2 championships? LO was just coming off 6MOY and say what you want, but dude is a shell of himself cause he felt betrayed by LA. He didn't get traded to bring in one of the best PGs in the league....he got traded in order to shed team salary (the originally structured CP3 deal didn't even need LO heading outbound cause under the trading parameters, Pau's contract was enough to get the deal done). Also, lets not forget what type of offseason Fish had and if he needed to round himself back into playing shape a la World Peace, then Fish out of all people deserved the extended time to do so. By playoff time, he would've contributed...no doubt.

I understand that Fish needs to retire and he is no longer a capable defender and starting PG, but this deal was absolutely a waste in trade assets. The 1st rounder could be attached to any Pau deal this summer. Meanwhile Fish deserved to have a heads up by management and they could've done the right thing by sitting him down this summer and telling him if you pick up your player option on the final year, we might have to move you to get younger and get a starting guard. That way, Fish can either bow out gracefully or bite the bullet and opt in. Either way, with the Hill deal, management saved a minute 1.2M in salary this season.

Lastly, what does the super tax have to do with both Fish and LO....as you stated, both don't even impact the 2013 salary cap, so moving them this season was a salary dump that has zero implications on the 2013 super tax. Meanwhile Blake remains and he is the only player outside of Pau and Kobe that has guaranteed money coming his way in 2013. If LA wanted to avoid the super tax, they should have moved Blake out attaching a 1st rounder, instead of Fish.

I've discussed this topic far too much, but nothing can convince me that management was short-sighted in this deal and just wanted to shed immediate salary. We did end up getting Sessions in the process, but he is no CP3 and a perfect match with the starting lineup he is not.

Look for LA to move Pau this summer in order to get a starting PG that can demand the ball away from Kobe and instead allow Kobe to be setup instead of get his points through ball domination. If that type of deal isn't there, Pau is going to be the next victim of a salary dump. However this time, such a deal makes a bit more sense cause Pau's deal does affect the 2013 super tax.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion Thread

Postby paperplanes on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:19 am

bruddahmanmatt wrote:
tttppp wrote:
XXIV wrote:^ I'm sure a majority of the owners agreed to it, or do all of the owners have to agree upon the new CBA?


I'm not sure. The new rules basically screw over anyone over the cap. You would think that the teams over the cap would demand that changes be put in place for them to get under the cap easily.

I really have no clue why they put these rules in place. Apparently they are upset about teams like the Lakers out bidding teams for free agents, but that has not been the case. The Lakers have largely developed their own players. They haven't gotten a big name free agent since Shaq.


This is so far from the truth it's ridiculous. Drew, Goudelock, Ebanks and Morris are the only players on our roster who have been here since draft day, and you can include Bryant on that list if you ignore the fact that we technically traded Vlade for his draft rights (he was developed here after all). Beyond those five, Gasol, MWP, Blake, McBob, Barnes, Murph, Sessions, Hill and Eyenga were all acquired via trade.


I'm almost positive MWP, Blake, Barnes, Murph, and McBob were all signed as free agents not via trades.
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