Jordan Hill Discussion: Struggling in the new season

Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Helljumper on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:59 pm

As much as I love what he's done for us so far this year, if D'antoni can figure out a way to have us winning without Hill in the rotation, I wouldn't be against trading him for a better back-up SF/PG and start grooming Sacre some more into our back-up C.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby trodgers on Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:12 pm

What would make one think Sacre could be a serviceable backup big? He has consumed a total of 7 possessions in garbage time. In those possessions, he has done the following:

3 times missed FG
2 times turned it over
1 times handed out an assist (a 2pt shot)
1 time hit a FG

That's four points produced in seven possessions. That's 0.57 points per possession. Only Clark and DJO are worse. By comparison, the team average is 1.14 points per possession. So, he's 1/2 as productive as the average Laker.

His Individual Efficiency Ratings:
Scoring: 2.9
Passing: 2.1
Hustle: 2.5
Position Rating: 37.0
SYNERGY: 0.57
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Helljumper on Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:57 pm

trodgers wrote:What would make one think Sacre could be a serviceable backup big? He has consumed a total of 7 possessions in garbage time. In those possessions, he has done the following:

3 times missed FG
2 times turned it over
1 times handed out an assist (a 2pt shot)
1 time hit a FG

That's four points produced in seven possessions. That's 0.57 points per possession. Only Clark and DJO are worse. By comparison, the team average is 1.14 points per possession. So, he's 1/2 as productive as the average Laker.

His Individual Efficiency Ratings:
Scoring: 2.9
Passing: 2.1
Hustle: 2.5
Position Rating: 37.0
SYNERGY: 0.57


:man3: I don't think stats are a good way to analyze a guy whose played a total of 7 possessions in garbage time...

He has a decent touch, he can finish around the rim, and more importantly, he's another 7 foot body that can give you 6 fouls. I'm not proposing that we make him a rotation player, all I'm saying is that he provides us with enough insurance that Hill becomes expendable (assuming that we're able to find success with these current rotations that don't really even utilize Hill).

If D'antoni sticks to what he's doing right now, it looks like this is going to be our rotation when everyone's healthy. These rotations would look much more balanced with a legitimate second string SF instead of having an over-qualified third string PF who we can't find minutes for.

Nash / Morris / Blake / Duhon
Bryant / Meeks / Johnson-Odom
World Peace / World Peace / Jamison / Ebanks
Gasol / Jamison / Hill
Howard / Gasol or Howard / Sacre
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby trodgers on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:02 pm

I don't think that looking at a guy in 19 minutes of garbage time is a good way to get a sense of what he's capable of. :man3: :man3:

An injury to one of our bigs would be catastrophic if we moved Hill. And injuries to bigs aren't unlikely. Gasol has tendinitis in both knees. He has had some injury issues since he's come to LA. Howard is, as many have suggested, not at 100% yet, and he's coming off serious back surgery.

My point was that there is no reason whatsoever to believe that Sacre belongs in the NBA. I stand by that. If it's not clear that he belongs in the NBA, you don't want him as your second big off the bench.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:46 pm

Sacre doesn't belong in the NBA.... neither does 1/3 of our bench for that matter.... When you have the worst depth in the league you will have these types of players on your bench.

While I love Hills hustle I liked the fact that his minutes were cut down in favor of Jamison. Having a guy that's an offensive threat out there keeps the opposing teams honest. When Hill is in the game his man is usually in the lap of our other big in the game..... either Pau or Howard. Too bad we couldn't fuse his hustle into Jamison's ability....
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Punk-101 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:52 pm

^^

Jamison's hustle, rebounding, and defense has actually shocked the hell out of me.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:55 pm

Punk-101 wrote:^^

Jamison's hustle, rebounding, and defense has actually shocked the hell out of me.


I'm surprised as well. His first few outings were not promising but he's picked it up the last two games and is looking like a second unit leader....
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby ADT on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:07 pm

I tweeted Jordan Hil about not getting PT all of a sudden with Dantoni as coach n it seems he agrees...

@Audel_DelToro: @jordanchill43 man D'Antoni is coaching n now all of a sudden ur on the pine just like in NY! Wtf! Smh!


@jordanchill43: @Audel_DelToro lol u notice it too huh?
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby trodgers on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:09 pm

:man10: That's pretty funny, man.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby WilliamHaven on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:11 pm

ADT wrote:I tweeted Jordan Hil about not getting PT all of a sudden with Dantoni as coach n it seems he agrees...

@Audel_DelToro: @jordanchill43 man D'Antoni is coaching n now all of a sudden ur on the pine just like in NY! Wtf! Smh!


@jordanchill43: @Audel_DelToro lol u notice it too huh?



Good job making it a public issue....
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby ADT on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:13 pm

:man5: ^
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 pm

cmon bro, don't stir up the pot
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:51 pm

....Yeah.... and Jamison had two great games.... Maybe MDA knows what he doing after all...
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby karacha on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:59 pm

If Jamison can play like this, he is clearly better than Hill. I do think that Hill should get at least 10 mpg, with Pau at C if possible, and whatever garbage minutes are available to save Gasol's knees. Since he is not a shooter (like, say, Meeks who needs minutes to hit some threes), Hill can use his energy to play defense and grab some boards. That's his primary role. If we suddenly have to rely on Hill to win games, that's not good.

But I generally like what he does so -- whenever MDA slides Pau to the 5, Hill should be playing the 4. Or whenever we have a big lead in the 4th -- Hill should be playing, period. And if a big, god forbid, goes down, Hill can jump in and play some serious minutes. He's pretty solid.

My hope is that Pau can get enough rest this season, so he does not seem apathetic on the court and his knees can heal faster, while fully recovered Dwight generally does not miss games at all. Hill can play a vital role of saving other guys for the big stage IMO.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby ThizGuy83 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:17 pm

i just want hill to get some minutes cuz he brings that energy... rebounding...
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:24 pm

karacha wrote:If Jamison can play like this, he is clearly better than Hill. I do think that Hill should get at least 10 mpg, with Pau at C if possible, and whatever garbage minutes are available to save Gasol's knees. Since he is not a shooter (like, say, Meeks who needs minutes to hit some threes), Hill can use his energy to play defense and grab some boards. That's his primary role. If we suddenly have to rely on Hill to win games, that's not good.

But I generally like what he does so -- whenever MDA slides Pau to the 5, Hill should be playing the 4. Or whenever we have a big lead in the 4th -- Hill should be playing, period. And if a big, god forbid, goes down, Hill can jump in and play some serious minutes. He's pretty solid.

My hope is that Pau can get enough rest this season, so he does not seem apathetic on the court and his knees can heal faster, while fully recovered Dwight generally does not miss games at all. Hill can play a vital role of saving other guys for the big stage IMO.


I understand what you're saying but I think one of the reasons we looked so good against Dallas, other than Dallas didn't play that well, was that Jamison drew defenders out of the paint and they couldn't ignore him on offensive end. When Hill's in we get great energy and hustle but his defender is usually sagging way off him in the paint waiting for either Howard or Pau to get the ball.... The lane gets clogged to the point where we can't operate most of the time.

It's a tough choice but with Howard and Pau we need people to stay honest at all of the other positions or we might continue to see Howard getting mauled, stripped etc. It's usually not his defender that's doing it....

I'd go with Jamison with the lion's share of the minutes at the 4 off the bench for a while and see if it loosens things up for Howard/Pau in the middle..... if Pau ever gets back in the middle again..... :man1:
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby karacha on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:29 pm

Well, that's why I would like to "reserve" a limited amount of playtime for Hill and use him in the 4th whenever we have a big lead. There's no reason to use Pau much in that case. Hill might even be able to play some (undersized) 5 with Jamison stretching the floor from the wing. This gives both Pau and Howard a chance to rest. 10 minutes is 10 minutes.

Think Morris or Duhon/Meeks/Metta/Jamison/Hill. Nothing wrong with that when you have a nice lead. Especially if one of the shooters gets hot. Antawn also gets nice minutes and a chance to chuck shots, which is something he did since he entered the league. You go small and run for a few minutes, and these guys can defend too, as a unit.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:33 pm

karacha wrote:Well, that's why I would like to "reserve" a limited amount of playtime for Hill and use him in the 4th whenever we have a big lead. There's no reason to use Pau much in that case. Hill might even be able to play some (undersized) 5 with Jamison stretching the floor from the wing. This gives both Pau and Howard a chance to rest. 10 minutes is 10 minutes.


That would have to be big lead..... :man10:

A smaller lineup with Hill and Jamison would work against a few teams pretty well I think. We'll see if MDA sees it that way.

Finding the right line up to get him some PT would be optimum..... he's done nothing in particular to warrant benching other than be in the wrong place at the right time. Jamison balances the floor so much better than he does and as long as he continues to put up the numbers Hill will most likely be the odd man out.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby last stand on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:45 pm

i just don't like how whenever hill gets a rebound he doesn't know how to do anything but shoot.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby lotus on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:49 pm

Hill shouldn't be cast off to garbage minutes nor traded. He is a very servicable 4, and in some situations can play the 5. He's young, mobile, hustles as much as anybody on the team, and doesn't cost much. Plus he's tough.

Do you really want to get rid of him so that when the playoffs come around we have less toughness from the bench and "push over" Pau is getting his a$$ handed to him in the paint? Keep Hill on this team. Period.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby dj vitus on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:54 pm

Rooscooter wrote:he's done nothing in particular to warrant benching other than be in the wrong place at the right time.

So true. I hope Hill realizes this and doesn't take it personally. Jamison can't be this hot all the time, so we're going to need Hill, especially if Pau gets tired down the stretch.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Frank Dux on Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:28 pm

Hill earned his playing time, and so has Jamison. Gasol needs to ride the bench in favor of the other two until he proves otherwise.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby Center Court on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:12 pm

there is just not enough mins to go around for everyone to be maximized...

Dwight needs 38. Pau needs 34 total. Jamison needs bigger mins which cuts Pau down to 26-28 at PF and then 10 at C. Jamison gets all the back up four mins and he deserves it if he can play the way he did last 2 games.

That means J Hill is the odd man out.

Only option to give Hill mins is to make him the primary back up C and not give Pau mins at the 5 or cut Jamison's mins at the 4. Under MDA, that's not happening.

Im not sure if Jamison being at the 4 has freed him up a bit or if his improvement just has to do with being more aggressive. Hopefully MDA will try it out somemore with Antwan at the 3 and see if he can still be just as effective. IMO the answer is no.

the best situation is to trade Pau for a very good SF in a trade that wouldn't bring anyone else back. Otherwise, Hill is going to be limited to about 4-8 mins a game.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby khmrP on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:32 pm

hope Hill doesn't get down on himself with lack of PT, we gona need him. I'm hoping MDA will eventually find a way to get him his 20mins again, this guy is top's when it comes to offensive reb %.
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Re: Jordan Hill Discussion

Postby khmrP on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:34 pm

Center Court wrote:there is just not enough mins to go around for everyone to be maximized...

Dwight needs 38. Pau needs 34 total. Jamison needs bigger mins which cuts Pau down to 26-28 at PF and then 10 at C. Jamison gets all the back up four mins and he deserves it if he can play the way he did last 2 games.

That means J Hill is the odd man out.

Only option to give Hill mins is to make him the primary back up C and not give Pau mins at the 5 or cut Jamison's mins at the 4. Under MDA, that's not happening.

Im not sure if Jamison being at the 4 has freed him up a bit or if his improvement just has to do with being more aggressive. Hopefully MDA will try it out somemore with Antwan at the 3 and see if he can still be just as effective. IMO the answer is no.

the best situation is to trade Pau for a very good SF in a trade that wouldn't bring anyone else back. Otherwise, Hill is going to be limited to about 4-8 mins a game.


even though Howard is young, I dont see why he needs 38. If our bench could get more production we could manage 30mins per starter ala Spurs. Hill needs to be utilize as well, we all know how Gasoft likes to use the "exhaustion" excuse for the last 3yrs now. His minutes need to be greatly monitored/reduced
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