Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby Savory Griddles on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:05 pm

Center Court wrote:MDA's dream team

Bosh
Anderson
Korver
Reddick
Nash


Hed probably want Okur or Bargnani instead of Bosh. :man10:
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:10 pm

The odd couple back together in Cleveland. If Bynum's healthy who's got more juice with the organization.... Potato or him?
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby trodgers on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:18 pm

:man10: Metta threw his hands up as soon as it left Drew's hands.

It's one thing to say, "I think I need to work on my jumpshot." It's another to put it into a guy's head that he should be a particular kind of player that is 180 degrees from where he is. Hill has carved out a role for himself close to the basket, banging on the boards, and not doing much else on offense. Giving him a false "role" is going to destroy him.

Charted Shots (career)
At Rim: 239-367 (65%)
3-9 feet: 87-201 (43%)
10-15 feet: 33-92 (36%)
16-23 feet: 70-200 (35%)
3pts: 0-7 (0%)
Nearly half of his shots come at the rim in his career. He has a role. He does admirably at it. When you get him thinking of being a stretch four, you get him in the mindset of "the first thing I need to do is space the floor with my shooting from distance." That's stupid and false.

His jump/set shot should be so far down the list of what he does.
1. Hustle
2. Rebound
3. Defend P&R
4. Putbacks

Jordan Hill is a limited player right now. He's a key role player, and that's fine. Don't blow your personnel decisions by trying to make them do things they should not be doing (e.g., Pau Gasol, Antawn Jamison, MWP last year).
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:26 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
Center Court wrote:MDA's dream team

Bosh
Anderson
Korver
Reddick
Nash


Hed probably want Okur or Bargnani instead of Bosh. :man10:


Bargnani
Ryan Anderson
Klay Thompson
Danny Green
Steph Curry
#OURHOUSE
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby therealdeal on Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:54 pm

trodgers wrote::man10: Metta threw his hands up as soon as it left Drew's hands.

It's one thing to say, "I think I need to work on my jumpshot." It's another to put it into a guy's head that he should be a particular kind of player that is 180 degrees from where he is. Hill has carved out a role for himself close to the basket, banging on the boards, and not doing much else on offense. Giving him a false "role" is going to destroy him.

Charted Shots (career)
At Rim: 239-367 (65%)
3-9 feet: 87-201 (43%)
10-15 feet: 33-92 (36%)
16-23 feet: 70-200 (35%)
3pts: 0-7 (0%)
Nearly half of his shots come at the rim in his career. He has a role. He does admirably at it. When you get him thinking of being a stretch four, you get him in the mindset of "the first thing I need to do is space the floor with my shooting from distance." That's stupid and false.

His jump/set shot should be so far down the list of what he does.
1. Hustle
2. Rebound
3. Defend P&R
4. Putbacks

Jordan Hill is a limited player right now. He's a key role player, and that's fine. Don't blow your personnel decisions by trying to make them do things they should not be doing (e.g., Pau Gasol, Antawn Jamison, MWP last year).

I just disagree with the idea that him developing a jump shot is going to ruin him. He's with a team of veterans that should be able to teach him that learning a jump shot doesn't mean relying on one.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby abeer3 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:20 pm

*sigh*

just let players do what they do well and work with it. good coaches can do this. hill needs to get that midrange shot down first. udonis haslem made a career of knocking down wide open 15 footers, crashing the boards, and playing good d at the pf spot. hill could do that; why bother with the three? and if that's what you wanted, why not keep earl clark and move hill for another stretch 4? why spend your biggest chunk in FA on a low post center?
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby trodgers on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:51 pm

"I’m just trying to do a variety of stuff that will help me spread the floor and get great shots," Hill said.
--This quote seems pretty tame. It sounds like a positive idea: add just a bit to your game.

"I just want to be a stretch 4. Just try to spread the floor a little bit, just show a little range. I’ve been working on it the whole summer, trying to focus on that, on my 3-ball. It got a lot better. I’m just ready to put it all together and showcase it.”
--This is the problem. He doesn't need a three-ball. He's not a stretch four. He shouldn't even have that insane thought in his head. When Kobe goes to add something to his game, he doesn't say, "I need to become this or that." He talks about adding, not changing. That's why Kobe's approach is awesome. That's why I have a problem with what Hill's saying. It's NOT just "add something" - not in his head. And that's what's going to hurt him.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby live and die in LA on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:56 pm

The thread title is a little misleading. D'antoni asked Hill to work on his jumpshot, Hill brings up how he wants to become a stretch 4, and then D'antoni is blasted for asking Hill to work on a flaw in his game.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby trodgers on Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:51 pm

You are the coach. You are responsible for sending the message. That's the problem. D'Antoni failed.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby therealdeal on Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:02 pm

trodgers wrote:"I’m just trying to do a variety of stuff that will help me spread the floor and get great shots," Hill said.
--This quote seems pretty tame. It sounds like a positive idea: add just a bit to your game.

"I just want to be a stretch 4. Just try to spread the floor a little bit, just show a little range. I’ve been working on it the whole summer, trying to focus on that, on my 3-ball. It got a lot better. I’m just ready to put it all together and showcase it.”
--This is the problem. He doesn't need a three-ball. He's not a stretch four. He shouldn't even have that insane thought in his head. When Kobe goes to add something to his game, he doesn't say, "I need to become this or that." He talks about adding, not changing. That's why Kobe's approach is awesome. That's why I have a problem with what Hill's saying. It's NOT just "add something" - not in his head. And that's what's going to hurt him.

I don't know. I just think that there's plenty of good things to come from this and it's on the coach and his teammates to make sure he knows what he needs to do.

And again, I'm not on board with the threes...
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby abeer3 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:28 pm

i'm with trodg; improvement is good, but the overarching message is "become something you're not" instead of "become the best version of you possible". subtle but important. maybe that was the message and hill missed it, but I doubt it.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby therealdeal on Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:03 pm

abeer3 wrote:i'm with trodg; improvement is good, but the overarching message is "become something you're not" instead of "become the best version of you possible". subtle but important. maybe that was the message and hill missed it, but I doubt it.

Or maybe the message was to continue to develop that side of you, but it's not necessarily world changing?

The idea that this limits him comes with the assumption that D'Antoni won't give him as much opportunity unless he can provide threes.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby Helljumper on Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:10 pm

I highly doubt Hill will be shooting many threes next season. He's working on it just to have in his arsenal and like real said, he might try expanding out to the short corner since it's a shot he'll frequently have. Other than that, I expect he's primarily just working on his midrange game.
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Jordan Hill Vows Outside Shooting Won’t Compromise Rest Of H

Postby Kobe8Fan on Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:08 pm

Jordan Hill Vows Outside Shooting Won’t Compromise Rest Of His Game

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Posted on August 21, 2013 by Mark Medina

Anytime Jordan Hill has stepped foot in a gym near his Atlanta residence this summer, the visual images starkly contrast with what made him a pleasant surprise for the Lakers through the past two seasons.

Instead of perfecting his post moves, Hill takes at least 1,000 jump shots per day. Instead of performing Mikan drills close to the basket, Hill often participates in shooting contests with reserve shooting guard Jodie Meeks. Instead of honing in on his rebounding, Hill’s paying extra attention to the ball handling.

All that work led Hill to making one unexpected evaluation surrounding his outside shooting stroke.

“I have a lot more confidence,” Hill said in a phone interview with this newspaper. “I feel I’m a good shooter now.”

As Hill enters the 2013-14 season as a key reserve and even a possible starter, how he finds that balance between expanding his game and playing to his strengths could play a huge part in dictating his success or failure.

Before suffering a torn labrum in his left hip that required surgery and kept him out for 53 games, Hill became a focal part of the Lakers’ bench namely by providing endless energy on defense, rebounding and hustle plays. Such a staple earned him a role in his first season with the Lakers two years ago after they initially considered him nothing more than a throw-in to allow them to trade Derek Fisher to the Houston Rockets both to save salary and trim a backcourt. Lakers coach Mike D’Antoni sat Hill for three consecutive games last December, bringing a familiar reminder how he played a similarly limited role under him during his rookie season four years ago with the New York Knicks.

Hill eventually earned playing time by sticking to his strengths on defense, rebounding and energy. The Lakers expect Hill to have a strong role this season, too. But it came with a caveat. Hill said both D’Antoni and Kobe Bryant in separate instances instructed him this offseason to work on his mid-range jumper.

How does Hill prevent his increased outside shooting from diluting the qualities that earned him such a prominent role on the Lakers’ bench in the first place?

“I’m still going to do what I’m going to do,” said Hill, who averaged a career-high 6.7 points and career-high 5.7 rebounds in 15.8 minutes last season through 29 regular-season games. “Provide energy, play defense, rebound. That’s my game. That’s not going to change. I just want to be able to have more options and have something that the team can rely on. It’s all about just trying to expand my game.”

Hill then ticked off a few examples on how that could happen. When D’Antoni tinkers with frontline combinations with Pau Gasol and Chris Kaman. When Steve Nash runs pick-and-rolls and needs more space to elude a defender or a reliable shooter to knock down a basket. When Bryant’s continuously trying to navigate double teams.

Yet, it remains to be seen if this formula will work.

For one, D’Antoni had encouraged Gasol last season to take a similar approach. But that changed role coupled with a litany of injuries (knee tendinitis, concussion, plantar fascia in left foot) contributed to Gasol averaging a career-low 13.7 points on 46.6 percent shooting.

Secondly, Hill had taken steps prior to last season to improve his mid-range jumper, but it hasn’t materialized. Hoopdata illustrates how Hill’s current success relies more on looks inside. Consider his shooting percentage on shots at the rim (65.2 percent), attempts within three to nine feet (40.7 percent) and shots 16 to 23 feet from the basket (33 percent). Hill shot 50 percent on shots within 10-15 feet, but they’re considered a small sample size. Meanwhile, Hill has never made a three-pointer in his four-year NBA career.

Still, Hill expressed positive sentiments after working on his shooting this offseason in Atlanta with a certain teammate known for his gun slinging. Meeks, a fearless three-point shooter that struggled with inconsistency last season, gave Hill pointers on his follow through, footwork and how to find open shots. Hill also reported he beat Meeks three out of 18 shooting contests they had during the course of the summer.

“Jodie’s the shooter, but the fact I was able to get in a few games shows I’m doing something right,” Hill said.

But don’t look for Hill to worry about having a heightened offensive role.

“The thing with me this year is I’m not going to want to worry about scoring,” Hill said. “I’m going to let Pau and Chris take care of that. I’ll make sure I’ll do everything on defense, the little things, anything to make this team better.”

The Lakers sure need it after losing Dwight Howard to free agency and waiving Metta World Peace in a cost-cutting measure through the amnesty provision.

“I was surprised. I thought he definitely was going to stay in L.A,” Hill said of Howard. “But you can’t hold it against him. You have to wish him the best. But it’s definitely going to be a huge loss for us.”

Even with Howard and World Peace last season, the Lakers struggled mightily on defense.

They ranked 21st overall in total defense. Breakdowns on pick-and-roll defense became normal for reasons including Nash’s lack of speed, Bryant’s gambling, Howard’s diminished athleticism because of offseason back surgery, poor communication and effort.

Does Hill’s defensive responsibility increase?

“A lot of people say that. I don’t know maybe. I’m definitely going to keep bringing it every day, doing what I can to help the team That’s my game, playing defense, being physical, getting the rebounds,” Hill said. “But it’s about being on the same page and playing as a unit. You look at the other guys in the league – Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker. It’s hard to stop those guys on every play. It’s all about just having each other’s backs, communicating, being organized, working hard. It’s a huge loss not having Dwight and Metta, but it’s never about one guy. It’s about five guys.”

Hill then gushed about the Lakers hiring Kurt Rambis as an assistant coach to oversee the team’s defense. Rambis spent 10 seasons as Phil Jackson’s lead assistant coach, had head-coaching stints with both the Lakers (1999) and Minnesota Timberwolves (2009-2011)and won four championships in his nine-year playing career with the Lakers during the Showtime Era.

“Kurt Rambis will be a huge help. He’s going to hone in the defensive side,” Hill said. “Mike will take care of the offensive side. Kurt really knows about defense and I’m sure he’ll bring a lot of insight.”

Still, part of that effort could hinge on how fast the Lakers play.

They struggled last season in playing at the fast pace D’Antoni wanted, a product of an aging roster sapped with injuries. D’Antoni eventually relented and opted for a more methodical tempo. But the Lakers have since acquired pieces that appear more suited for D’Antoni’s system, including Kaman, former USC product Nick Young, Jordan Farmar and Wesley Johnson.

Hill paused for a few seconds before considering to what degree the Lakers should run.

“That’s something we’ll have a better idea of once training camp starts,” Hill said. “I’m young. I love running, getting up and down, trying to create a spark and get easy buckets. But it’s all about what the team needs. We’ll have a better feel once we start up in practice and get that chemistry going.”

Hill will also have a better feel for how his hip will fare after spending all offseason rehabbing it.

“It’s not 100 percent, but I feel 100 percent,” Hill said. “It’s never going to be completely 100 percent. But it’s not going to be anything where it’s going to affect my game. I just have to make sure I’m on top of my rehab and take care of my body. But I think I’ll be fine.”

Hill maintains he feels the same way about the offseason work he’s put on his outside shooting, eager to show that will translate once the season starts.

“I just want to expand my game,” Hill said. “So if I can stretch the floor and make some shots, it’ll help us a lot.”


http://www.insidesocal.com/lakers/2013/ ... -his-game/
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:23 pm

Hill said both D’Antoni and Kobe Bryant in separate instances instructed him this offseason to work on his mid-range jumper.

How does Hill prevent his increased outside shooting from diluting the qualities that earned him such a prominent role on the Lakers’ bench in the first place?

“I’m still going to do what I’m going to do,” said Hill, who averaged a career-high 6.7 points and career-high 5.7 rebounds in 15.8 minutes last season through 29 regular-season games. “Provide energy, play defense, rebound. That’s my game. That’s not going to change. I just want to be able to have more options and have something that the team can rely on. It’s all about just trying to expand my game.”


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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:20 pm

Clearly Jordan lurks on CL and could see a lot of us were concerned about him putting on a tutu and becoming a "stretch 4". Cool! :jam2:
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby karacha on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:28 pm

OK, having more options sounds good, if it does not compromise his main game. I like it. I really want to see if he can hit some mid-range Js with some consistency. We know he's a hard worker.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:30 pm

I'm concerned about him stepping out and shooting the jumper too much.... but I'm more concerned that we may be relying on him more than 15 minutes a game.... or even starting him. That's a "stretch" to his game that I believe is beyond what he's proven he can do in the past. I poster earlier in this thread that he's barely logged a typical starters SEASON minutes in his entire career.

He's a good to very good hustle guy that is a great change of pace for a guy like Pau at the PF. Putting him out there to start will have similar results to what we saw from Clark last year when he was forced into the starting line up I'm afraid.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby abeer3 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:41 pm

nah, I still like him starting with pau. doesn't mean he has to play more than 20mpg. also, I just can't imagine the team surviving too many minutes with the pau/Kaman combo, so hill's going to have to play. the lakers let clark walk, so there aren't really other options at that spot.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:33 pm

I know Kelly hasn't signed, but I think they imagine Kelly and Harris filling in at the PF too.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby dj vitus on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:39 pm

With our team poised to jack up 25 three pointers a game, I say keep Jordan Hill inside. Just sayin', coach. :man12:
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:40 pm

Nick Young will not pass so forget about this stretch 4 bs... Go straight in front of the rim and rebound :man10:
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Re: Jordan Hill Vows Outside Shooting Won’t Compromise Rest Of H

Postby lakersin4 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:42 am

Kobe8Fan wrote:
Secondly, Hill had taken steps prior to last season to improve his mid-range jumper, but it hasn’t materialized. Hoopdata illustrates how Hill’s current success relies more on looks inside. Consider his shooting percentage on shots at the rim (65.2 percent), attempts within three to nine feet (40.7 percent) and shots 16 to 23 feet from the basket (33 percent). Hill shot 50 percent on shots within 10-15 feet, but they’re considered a small sample size. Meanwhile, Hill has never made a three-pointer in his four-year NBA career.

Hopefully if we're going to be asking Jordan to take more jumpers it's from 10-15 feet. Unless he makes some huge improvement I don't think he should attempt a single FG outside 15 feet. He'll be on the floor with either Gasol or Kaman most of the time probably, & they both have a bit more range. With all the 3's our perimeter players will be jacking up, there should be plenty of those 10-15 foot looks available.
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:07 am

abeer3 wrote:nah, I still like him starting with pau. doesn't mean he has to play more than 20mpg. also, I just can't imagine the team surviving too many minutes with the pau/Kaman combo, so hill's going to have to play. the lakers let clark walk, so there aren't really other options at that spot.


I wasn't advocating starting Pau at the 4.... rather getting a 4 that can start. The confidence in Hill jumping into that position with his history is a leap of faith to me. We need another 4.... and no, it's not Lamar....
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Re: Jordan Hill's Summer Assignment: Become A Stretch 4

Postby abeer3 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:21 am

oh sure. if they can find a starting quality 4 for the vet min in august, by all means they should do it...
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