Julius Randle Discussion: Out for season - Fractured Tibia

Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby purp n gold on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:56 pm

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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:38 pm

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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:06 am

Weezy wrote:I think it's crazy that he fell to 7th. I think based on actual college play plus potential, he was a top 3 or 4 talent, right in the mix with Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid. He was ranked there to start the college season, and pretty much all during it, and then he just dropped because of a screw in his foot apparently. I can understand the argument of taking a gamble on the hype of Exum, and I can see taking a more experienced and established college player in Smart ( though I still dong get Smart over Randle when they have Rondo). The one pick I can't get is Gordom, I can't believe a team took Gordon over him. Years from now Gordon could be great and I could be wrong, but from what we've actually seen of all these guys on the court so far, I don't get it.

Well the rumor was that Vonleh would go in the top 5 or 6, not Gordon. Both of which surprised me when I looked more into these players. I like Gordon, but turning him into a solid NBA player is going to take a while. His athleticism will get him by for a bit and he's definitely a smart kid, but he's got a ways to develop still. Vonleh is even worse.

Randle sliding I think was a crazy mistake by probably 3 teams ahead of us. Philadelphia, Orlando, and Boston. Mostly Orlando and Boston though.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:39 am

I think I mentioned I didn't decide between wanting Smart or Randle until Boston was on the clock and then all of a sudden I was just thinking "take Smart, take Smart".
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby jlkr on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:11 am

LTLakerFan wrote:I think I mentioned I didn't decide between wanting Smart or Randle until Boston was on the clock and then all of a sudden I was just thinking "take Smart, take Smart".

If I couldn't decide between a big man and a pg, I think I'd take the big man every time. Championships are won with big men, star pg's are optional.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby Magic Skywalker on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:52 am

therealdeal wrote:
Weezy wrote:I think it's crazy that he fell to 7th. I think based on actual college play plus potential, he was a top 3 or 4 talent, right in the mix with Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid. He was ranked there to start the college season, and pretty much all during it, and then he just dropped because of a screw in his foot apparently. I can understand the argument of taking a gamble on the hype of Exum, and I can see taking a more experienced and established college player in Smart ( though I still dong get Smart over Randle when they have Rondo). The one pick I can't get is Gordom, I can't believe a team took Gordon over him. Years from now Gordon could be great and I could be wrong, but from what we've actually seen of all these guys on the court so far, I don't get it.

Well the rumor was that Vonleh would go in the top 5 or 6, not Gordon. Both of which surprised me when I looked more into these players. I like Gordon, but turning him into a solid NBA player is going to take a while. His athleticism will get him by for a bit and he's definitely a smart kid, but he's got a ways to develop still. Vonleh is even worse.

Randle sliding I think was a crazy mistake by probably 3 teams ahead of us. Philadelphia, Orlando, and Boston. Mostly Orlando and Boston though.


I don't really think it was a mistake by Philadelphia. Emiid obviously has a high risk but he is way too good to let him pass at 3. I mean, before the injury, the only thing clear in the mock drafts was that Embiid was number 1, and he didn't start with the hype Parker and Wiggins had. He earned it by showing and excellent game in college.

So yeah, it could turn bad for Philly (actually, awful), but the reward could be too good to let it pass.

Orlando sure, I really don't get how they chose Gordon with Exum, Randle and Smart available. Boston also made a mistake, but to a lesser extent (Smart is also a very talented prospect, but considering Boston's roster, I'd much rather have the big guy over the small one).
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:14 am

Yeah true. I just feel like where they are as a franchise they needed something that could make some noise right now. They're a legacy franchise in the NBA and they're about to have the worst stretch in the history of their storied franchise by a good margin. They're intentionally tanking again. I just felt like for them it would have made more sense to grab a guy like Randle with a high ceiling, but still capable of competing right now for minutes. Embiid might not play this year like Noel didn't last year.

You're right though it's hard to pass up on talent like that.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:10 pm

This was one of the deepest drafts ever in terms of the number of blue chip prospects. Only time will tell if the hype of this class was warranted but a guy like Randle would've gone #1 in some drafts and in the top 3 in most other drafts.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:43 pm

jlkr wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:I think I mentioned I didn't decide between wanting Smart or Randle until Boston was on the clock and then all of a sudden I was just thinking "take Smart, take Smart".

If I couldn't decide between a big man and a pg, I think I'd take the big man every time. Championships are won with big men, star pg's are optional.


Yeah true, and that is what I went back and forth on and ultimately at the last 5 minutes or whatever chose. But you have to admit how long has it been, since we had a beast of a defensive guard (Cooper) that could actually lock down, in this case literally like a mini Artest, other back court players, and at the same time have the makings of a hard to stop offensive force at the point. Lots of us wanted Smart for that reason. But I came correct and of course am happy we have the equally beast of a front court player. Randle looks to me quite a lot like a bigger version of Smart with his bully ball capabilities and physique.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby abeer3 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:47 pm

I'm still a Gordon believer; I think I saw what the magic saw. only time will tell. that said, I probably would have taken randle over him, and both over smart, and all of them over vonleh. ok, I'm on record.

the fear I've reiterated throughout this thread is that he won't develop his midrange shot. I waited for lamar odom to do it for a decade plus, while udonis haslem put it together in a single offseason. we'll see what randle has quite soon, imo. like his clay, though.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:12 am

abeer3 wrote:I'm still a Gordon believer; I think I saw what the magic saw. only time will tell. that said, I probably would have taken randle over him, and both over smart, and all of them over vonleh. ok, I'm on record.

the fear I've reiterated throughout this thread is that he won't develop his midrange shot. I waited for lamar odom to do it for a decade plus, while udonis haslem put it together in a single offseason. we'll see what randle has quite soon, imo. like his clay, though.


If Gordon has his head on straight and works on his game, he should be a very good pro. You can't teach his athleticism. Most guys who have been blessed with athleticism but haven't had success had mental issues and just don't care or work on their games. Guys like Wesley Johnson, Michael Beasley and Javal McGee to name a few. On paper, these guys should be elite NBA players. They have all the physical tools. But mentally, they just aren't right. I think Gordon has the right mindset so he should be alright.

And there have been other players who were perceived as athletic freaks but busts who have turned it around. Guys like D. Jordan, G. Green and D. DeRozan. Once they found out how to utilize their athleticism properly, everything fell into place.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:24 am

:sing: :sing: another day of "free" lessons in Clublakers…. they ought to be charging and reimbursing coach Miller for the page views. :jam2:
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby khmrP on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:20 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
abeer3 wrote:I'm still a Gordon believer; I think I saw what the magic saw. only time will tell. that said, I probably would have taken randle over him, and both over smart, and all of them over vonleh. ok, I'm on record.

the fear I've reiterated throughout this thread is that he won't develop his midrange shot. I waited for lamar odom to do it for a decade plus, while udonis haslem put it together in a single offseason. we'll see what randle has quite soon, imo. like his clay, though.


If Gordon has his head on straight and works on his game, he should be a very good pro. You can't teach his athleticism. Most guys who have been blessed with athleticism but haven't had success had mental issues and just don't care or work on their games. Guys like Wesley Johnson, Michael Beasley and Javal McGee to name a few. On paper, these guys should be elite NBA players. They have all the physical tools. But mentally, they just aren't right. I think Gordon has the right mindset so he should be alright.

And there have been other players who were perceived as athletic freaks but busts who have turned it around. Guys like D. Jordan, G. Green and D. DeRozan. Once they found out how to utilize their athleticism properly, everything fell into place.


S. Swift and Tyrus Thomas are other 2 well own athletic freaks picked high for that fact but never seem to add much of anything to their games besides weaksides blocks and dunks.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:31 pm

abeer3 wrote:I'm still a Gordon believer; I think I saw what the magic saw. only time will tell. that said, I probably would have taken randle over him, and both over smart, and all of them over vonleh. ok, I'm on record.

the fear I've reiterated throughout this thread is that he won't develop his midrange shot. I waited for lamar odom to do it for a decade plus, while udonis haslem put it together in a single offseason. we'll see what randle has quite soon, imo. like his clay, though.


Well..... I think he's going to realize that real quick and if not everyone around him on staff and the team will re-enforce it. He's got the good drives and elusiveness for a big and the strength moves down below. But so far he hasn't shown much evidence of jumping high a lot. Being shorter he's going to get a number of shot situations rejected if he doesn't make them respect his J or pay for it.

I think he will. He looked really smooth in that workout video and was drilling them. The mechanics are good.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby Xepa777 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:42 pm

therealdeal wrote:Yeah true. I just feel like where they are as a franchise they needed something that could make some noise right now. They're a legacy franchise in the NBA and they're about to have the worst stretch in the history of their storied franchise by a good margin. They're intentionally tanking again. I just felt like for them it would have made more sense to grab a guy like Randle with a high ceiling, but still capable of competing right now for minutes. Embiid might not play this year like Noel didn't last year.

You're right though it's hard to pass up on talent like that.


1) Several doctors who've performed that surgery have said that it's a non-chronic issue

2) If the Sixers drafted Randle and got more wins next year, it would have de-valued their 2015 #1 pick for a guy with less upside (Embiid is a franchise talent, Randle is...highly debatable)

3) Their plan is to tank for a few years and then time up a big FA acquisition before their lottery prospects are up for their second contracts. It's a brilliant move that sadly LA has too much pride for as it maximizes the cap structure of the CBA.

4) Have you seen Noel in the SL? He straight up dominated. Lead Orlando in blocks and tied it with the most steals. Who was the last big to be so good in both categories? AK47?

5) Last year was technically their first year of tanking. Same with us. The difference is...they're going full tank while we're putting a half-assed tank out there. The results will be depressing for years to come.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:49 pm

:man3:

Why the bold?

I understand every single point you said and I still hate their plan. Full tank? No they're going submarine. Their two 1st round picks this season might not play in the NBA this year. You think Noel dominating Summer League is going to change anything? Jordan Clarkson was on the leading scorers in the Summer League does that mean he's going to score a lot at the NBA level?

The Sixers suck. They're going to continue to suck. They're going to try to bring all their young guys in at once and they'll realize they picked two stick thin tall players that have shown injury history, a PG that's stick thin that's overrated, and a European PF that has to play out of position now because they've got Embiid and Noel on the team already.

Their plan will take at least 5 years to pay off and by then the Lakers will be a much better franchise. Still.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby trodgers on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:08 pm

How does xepa have only 1 post?
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:05 am

Xepa, like most posters, wait for the perfect moment to contradict the realdeal's opinion :man10: it just took 7 months BANG!
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby SOAD on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:33 am

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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby wolfpaclaker on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:48 am

I could be wrong, but part of the reasons I believe Randle fell

- The foot (which has been addressed, it is NOT expected to stop him from having a long career)
- The lack of wingspan (NBA players who become elite usually have either elite athleticism or wingspan)
- No identified NBA position. Is he a SF or PF? A little bit of that Beasley concern in that tweener status.

Now Julius could knock the doubts off pretty fast. But I think he fell for a few reasons, not just because of the foot. One of the reasons Aaron Gordon went ahead of him, Aaron had the elite athleticism. I've seen a trend in the NBA FO people in that they usually want guys with elite athleticism or wingspan, or both. Remember when we drafted Bynum, the fact that he was able to catch the ball, actually have a touch around the rim and then have the 7'6 wingspan made him a great investment longterm. So goes back to Randle's limitations IMO. He's a PF most likely, but not with very long arms. He's a PF but not with the elite athleticism of Griffen. So the scouts had to believe he had a great post game or overall game, which considering he's only 19 is not there. He's good skill wise, but lacks a jumpshot, and from what I've read didn't show a real go to move in college that people thought would translate into the NBA.

I'm keeping my expectations for him at 15/9 as an average statistical output for him over his next 5-6 years. I'm not expecting Kevin Love like development, although certainly it would be what we need. I do think what makes Randle a really good investment is that he'll be one of those good players who plays hard. Instead of those great talents who don't always show up or are inconsistent, he'll be that blue collar worker who will bring it every night. I definitely think he can become an all-star caliber player down the road.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:15 am

I don't know, because I'm always capable of being too much of glass is half full guy when it comes to NBA "spring training" hopes for Lakers' players.... but being an alpha dog like Julius certainly appears to be, and being around the alpha dog mentalities of Bryant and Scott, that Randle is going to have the alpha type work ethic as well and be constantly working and improving his game. Look the hell out. No BS, we "may" have already found one of our multiple 1A or 1B alphas that are needed for runs at rings in the future post Kobe. Everyone knows has to be more than just one.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby nluna75 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:22 am

Dwight surely would not have fit in with those guys.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:43 am


Good find SOAD. From the article:
ESPN’s Jay Williams compared Randle’s body type to LeBron James, but neither Johnson nor Rose completely buys in.


I tried to make a similar comparison a while back. Not in the style of play or even the execution, just the uniqueness of his body. You saw it in the Summer League when he was consistently double and triple teamed. His peers just can't defend him one-on-one. He's too big for slim guys and too quick for big guys. He's a walking mismatch. Throw in how strong and well built he is physically and that's where his potential comes from.

Again: not saying he's LeBron James. I'm just saying his unique combination of size, strength, and speed make him nearly impossible to guard one-on-one without fouling.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:00 am

therealdeal wrote:

Good find SOAD. From the article:
ESPN’s Jay Williams compared Randle’s body type to LeBron James, but neither Johnson nor Rose completely buys in.


I tried to make a similar comparison a while back. Not in the style of play or even the execution, just the uniqueness of his body. You saw it in the Summer League when he was consistently double and triple teamed. His peers just can't defend him one-on-one. He's too big for slim guys and too quick for big guys. He's a walking mismatch. Throw in how strong and well built he is physically and that's where his potential comes from.

Again: not saying he's LeBron James. I'm just saying his unique combination of size, strength, and speed make him nearly impossible to guard one-on-one without fouling.


I didn't want to make the comparison either, but Randle's combination of size, strength, and speed, off the dribble, is probably only matched by Lebron in this league. The thing that he will need to be careful of is not bowling through guys. He likes contact, and finishes well through it, but I would like for him to develop some footwork. Spin moves, euro step, jump stops, things that will get him under control when he gets to the basket.
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Re: Julius Randle Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:09 am

Again, I'm not even comparing their type of play or anything about their basketball ability. I'm just saying that Randle, from everything I've seen, is probably impossible to guard in a vacuum one-on-one. Obviously this is a team game and it'll hardly ever be one-on-one exactly, but watching him get actively triple-teamed in Summer League kind of cemented that in my head. Who else was getting covered like that in Summer League? Honestly I don't know.

He's got so much work to do on his game. He needs a jump shot. He needs to stay focused defensively. He needs to obviously get in great shape again because he was gassed quickly in the Summer League games. He needs to work on not just being active on the glass, but boxing out and getting to the right spots on the floor. He needs to work on his right hand dribbling, shooting, passing, etc.

He's a long, long way from where he can get. My ONLY comparison here is that his body type and athleticism looks unique and extremely difficult to match-up against. I'm already excited to see how he looks in pre-season and in training camp. I'd love for him to take the starting job from Boozer, but he's got to earn it.
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