Alright some people just don't learn.
JGC wrote:You're still rusty! I kid, I kid.
Probably less rusty than I thought since you conveniently forgot to quote the part of my post in which I picked apart your shoddy attempt at my intellect.
JGC wrote:The situation is different. But the point is that Earl was GIVEN the opportunity. Why he was given the opportunity is moot.
Of course the reason why is moot to you, because it doesn't fit into your argument. The reason is absolutely important. Clark took an opportunity that was presented to him. Howard has been presented with the opportunity already and has not taken complete advantage of the situation. What does the second most post opportunities among big men sound to you? Is that not an opportunity?
JGC wrote: He was given the opportunity and took it. Darius Morris was GIVEN the opportunity and didn't. I don't feel as if Dwight has been given the opportunity that was promised. And that is, to be treated as a #1 guy on this team.
This was NOT promised to him. The very media day he arrived Kobe said it was his team, no questions.
The promise made to him was that IN A COUPLE OF YEARS this team would be his. THAT was the promise. He was never told he'd be the number one guy on the team.
JGC wrote:Dwight has proven to be effective in Orlando. That's why we traded Bynum and picks for him. That's why we told him he'd be the future of this franchise.
He's proven to be effective at getting Defensive Player of the Year awards and All-Star votes, he's never proven that he can win a Championship as the main guy. In fact as a Laker fan you should know that because in 2009 he lost in the Finals to the Lakers; to Kobe Bryant specifically.
He was chosen to be the future of the franchise because he's the best big man in the league today. This is the Laker method, any Laker fan would know: they go find the best Center in the game at that time and they move forward from there.
JGC wrote:t's not just about the number. (Are offensive boards factored in to that, do you know?) The number is part of it (for instance, why isn't he #1) but it's also a question of quality of touches. Any metrics on that? Because I don't really feel like we run anything for Dwight that puts him in HIS best position to score. He's saying he's not getting the ball where he likes it, so as the future face of this franchise, why don't we figure out how to do just that?
That's YOUR FEELING. Your feeling constitutes opinion, my numbers constitute facts.
Just because you FEEL like he doesn't have plays run for him doesn't tell me, or anybody on this site, anything at all. It's just your feeling. I feel like burritos are more fun to eat than tacos. Doesn't mean burritos are better than tacos. Just because you FEEL like he doesn't touch the ball enough, doesn't mean he doesn't.
As for him saying he's not getting the ball where he likes it... 1. Please provide where you read that and 2. If that's true he's lying about something.
He gets the second most post touches in the league. He said he wanted to get the ball in the post; when pressed if he'd like the ball in the post more or off of a pick and roll he said in the post.
What else can the team do to help him then? Your argument for him here has too many flaws to be logical.
JGC wrote:By the way, do you not remember the big laugh you had at everyone's expense when they suggested Dwight would be concerned with his touches?
Quite honestly no. But knowing myself and yourself there was a lot more to that post and to that thought process. Care to give the entire quotation?
And if we're digging into past posts, I'm sure you'd love to see Doc Brown in here.
JGC wrote:It DOES matter to him. How many and where and so it should matter to us too.
Again: 2nd most post touches in the league. He wants the ball in the post. Where does that equate to the team/fans feeling like it doesn't matter where his touches come from? Your argument is just awful.
JGC wrote:Dwight actually gets the 4th most shot attempts on the team. He's behind Kobe, Pau and then MWP. But yeah if you factor in free throws, let's say he's second in terms of attempts then.
JGC wrote:So what would you say Pau Gasol is then if he's not a role player? He can't be a role player right? Because as you said, what role player is given the 3rd most shot attempts on a team when paired with 4 hall of famers.
He's a hall of famer.
You see there's 4 of them on the team, right? Gasol, Howard, Bryant, and Nash. Nash doesn't even like to shoot the ball, so we can count him out. After that there's Gasol, Bryant, and Howard, right? Still with me?
Simple arithmetic states that there can only be one maximum, right? Unless of course they're all tied in shot attempts, but that's unlikely. So with the knowledge that there MUST be a descending list of shots per player how should it break down?
Well Kobe Bryant is a top 5 scorer of all time, so he's likely first. Dwight Howard is the best big man in the game, so he's likely second. Pau Gasol is still great, but that puts him at third, right? Still with me?
So that'd mean a HALL OF FAME player is 3rd in shot attempts on the team and he's NOT a role player. Even though many could argue that despite his hall of fame resume, he has indeed been more of a role player this season.
Whatever your point here was, it was awful. Consider it done.
JGC wrote:So if you don't view Pau Gasol as a role player, what would you say he is? Because to me, he IS a role player. He's a guy we don't focus the offense around, we don't intentionally put in to a position to succeed, isn't in our future plans, isn't tasked to lead and instead more follow, etc.
Again, refer to above.
JGC wrote:I think that attitude is exactly why you hear about reports about players not wanting to come here. Why doesn't he deserve it? I believe he is the only player in NBA history to ever win 3 consecutive DPOY awards. He's led his team to the finals. He is a superstar. He's already proven.
Because there's just tons of players around that don't want to be here, right? Besides a few shaky role players, please name me 5 players that have openly said "I don't want to come to LA because Kobe wouldn't pass me the torch". Please find me a short list of players that have said they wouldn't want to come here because they'd have to earn their respect. I'd love to see that.
JGC wrote: The mentality of "why the hell should Kobe give anything to anybody" is tired.
Of course it is to you. You do almost nothing on this site except tear the man down and say what he's doing wrong. Almost nothing. You of all the people on the site have the least amount of respect for the work the man put in and the trust he's built up on the back of an amazing career.
And this isn't opinion. Just a quick search of your history would show that you've done more criticizing of Kobe Bryant than you've given praise; probably at a 2:1 ratio.
JGC wrote:He's too old to have that mentality. He can't even play full starters minutes effectively on both ends of the court any more.
Again, your opinion. All of this comes down to a few of your misplaced opinions. When faced with facts your argument is so quickly shut down.
Playing an incredible 38.9 minutes per game in his SEVENTEENTH season he's 2nd in the league in scoring, shooting more efficiently than he has since 09, and defending as well as he has in the last few years against guys like Kyrie Irving and Brandon Jennings.
The only way your argument can be logically approached is if you are saying based on the results of THIS SEASON he has not been effective on both ends of the court AND that the minutes he's playing now are indicative of "starter's minutes".
Players of comparable age to Kobe play far less minutes to remain effective. If Kobe played only the amount of minutes as Tim Duncan (30.2) or Kevin Garnett (29.9) or Vince Carter (25) do you REALLY think he wouldn't be effective?
OR are you just not thinking through your argument?
JGC wrote:Remember, I didn't say hand the keys over. I said start the process. He's not mentally or physically ready to start the process??? Makes no sense.
Why doesn't it make sense? Prove to me why it doesn't make sense. Don't just dismiss someone else's opinions without facts. Tell me why I'm wrong. You've been taught better than that, I hope.
JGC wrote:I agree he isn't ready to take over entirely, but I'm not saying that. Baby steps. We're starting to lose him and we should try to make him feel like we really do want him to be a long term part of this franchise like we said we did.
2nd most post possessions in the game. How does that not scream "you're part of our long term plans". We've done nothing but talk about how much we want him to be around for the next 10 years, how is that not "part of our long term plans"?
JGC wrote:If you knew that catering to him would result in him putting up 25 and 15 with 3 blocks every night, would you do it?
Again: if he showed me on a consistent basis that he could do it, then I'd love to start giving him more responsibility. If he showed me a solid week or two of dominance, I'd love to give him that responsibility. Your hypothetical is really meaningless. If you knew that catering to him meant he would give us slightly better numbers, but his chance of injury would skyrocket would you do it?
Who cares? It doesn't matter, it's a hypothetical.
JGC wrote:Or would you not do it out of principal?
Again, irrelevant. We DON'T know that'll happen and we DON'T know if maybe it results in him being injured again.
JGC wrote:He already has. A few times.
- 28/13 with 3 blocks followed by...
- 23/15 with 4 blocks followed by...
- 4 FG attempts in the following game. Nice!
Here's a better string of games that matches what you said he could not do:
- 28/20 with 3 blocks followed by...
- 21/15 followed by
- 16/12 with 4 blocks
Are you saying he can't do it because you wanted a couple blocks in the second game but he didn't get any that game? Can't the 4 blocks on the third night be good enough to make up for the 2 you wanted in the second but didn't get?
No I'm saying he can't do it because he's also had stretches like this:
-11/6 with 2 blocks
-14/12 with 2 blocks
-12/7 with 1 block.
Or how about the 4 games just before YOUR examples:
-7/9 with 1 block
-7/4 with 4 blocks
-15/7 with 2 blocks
-17/8 with 4 blocks.
All solid? Well yes, they're NOT BAD. But they aren't dominant either. And until he puts together more consistency than I've seen, I'm not comfortable giving him any more responsibility than he has now. Until he plays hard throughout a game or two or three games, even if he's not touching the ball offensively, I don't trust him to start taking more control.
JGC wrote:The Miami Heat say "Heeeeeyyyyy". Did they make Lebron EARN his spot as the number 1 option? Nope. They brought him in and he was leading the team in shots right off the bat.
You realize there's more to the game than shot attempts right? The Miami Heat had to make it to the playoffs with LeBron and Wade sharing the responsibilities. Then the next season LeBron is clearly the number one man on the team and he earned that. He earned that by taking the team to the Finals.
So "heeeeeyyyyy" right back.
JGC wrote: Lebron didn't "take" or "earn" that spot by working the mail room up to the corner office. They brought him in and made him feel like an important part of the team from the get go rather than making him have to pay his dues to Daddy Wade first.
Who said he had to start at the bottom of the totem? Again with the hyperbole, I thought we'd talked about that already? Remember? Maybe not, because it was part of the post you didn't respond to.
And OF COURSE LEBRON EARNED IT! Again! He took the team to the Finals! And he DID share responsibilities with Wade the entire first season they were together! It wasn't until last year that LeBron was clearly the leader of the team and both Wade and Bosh took backseats to that! It seems you're just trying to revise history because you don't know any of it.
JGC wrote:Yep. He took the opportunity that was given to him. He didn't have to forcefully take it from Duncan. The team made a decision to START to hand over the keys and he ran with it. Will Dwight? Who knows until our team does the same thing.
Oh yeah, San Antonio just gave Parker that responsibility. It's not like he didn't earn that chance being the 2nd or 3rd best player on a Championship team. You're really reaching here because you don't know what you're talking about.
Parker EARNED the right to take the helm from Duncan, or at least to share that load. Has Dwight done that? Even better, has he done that next to Kobe Bryant? Has he shared in that journey? Or do you really just hand the keys over to a guy without proof he'll come through?
JGC wrote:I find it funny that no one comes to play for us every night. We said that about Bynum, Pau, 3pt shooters suddenly can't shoot. Maybe we're over-relying on something. Maybe the problem isn't every other player in the league.
Who said that? Clark does. Hill did. Meeks tries. Metta World Peace sure as hell does. Hell even Steve Blake plays hard, he just sucks. Trevor Ariza played hard for this team. Jordan Farmar, Shannon Brown, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox. Are these guys who never came to play? No, these are Champions who worked and sacrificed to get to that point.
Has Dwight earned what they earned?
It's about finding the guy with heart enough to do what's necessary to win rings. Young guys may not see that, so I don't blame you. It comes with age and with watching the NBA for a long time and for watching a lot of Championship teams come through here.
JGC wrote:Maybe it's worth a shot. Worst thing that can happen is we continue this downward spiral, Kobe is more rested, and we lose Dwight anyway but at least we can say we tried.
If Dwight left today could he say "at least I tried?" If he were honest with himself he couldn't say he tried hard every single night. And if not, then a real Laker fan wouldn't want him here.