Kobe Discussion: Clash of the Titus! (671)

Kobe giving the okay to trade pau

JGC wrote:

BDG wrote:LOL people want Kobe to basically play perfect basketball when there's literally 1,000 greater reasons why this game was lost.

Keep in mind if he wasn't pulling shots out his butt we would have easily lost by 20.

Look at the starters' FG% outside of Nash and Kobe.

Why wouldn't any one want Kobe to play perfect?

And we don't know what would have happened if he started passing. We may have lost by 20, or we may have won at the end, who knows.

Not gonna blame Kobe 100%, but, the reason the other guys didnt shoot well is because of poor overall team ball movement. Nash is maybe the only exception to that.

LOL. So with "better" ball movement the WIDE OPEN 3pt opportunities our guys bricked and bricked all of the sudden become more open or somehow better shots and start to fall... ? How does ball movement improve an already wide open shot?
Guys weren't hitting anything, and while our ball movement was poor, there wasn't much but the fact that they were just straight up ice cold tonight. Meeks had 2 WIDE OPEN momentum-carrying corner 3s (both passes came from Kobe btw ) and missed them. And that's our best 3pt shooter along with Nash. Nash missed his 3pt shots, and he took the same ones he usually takes. MWP bricked his when in the game against NY he was making the same shots. Morris has always been inconsistent. Kobe missed some he's been making consistently.

So, basically, we played a good game, moved the ball well as a team, just couldn't knock down shots. You really think we need to play the same way next game and every game because everything was great other than the shots not falling?

Wow. If you thought we had good ball movement today, I got some stuff to sell ya! Haha.

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:

Eric Pincus ‏@EricPincus
Kobe said the Lakers are old as [poop] - which is why they sometimes physically don't have it - have to learn how to play through that
Expand

This is BS IMO. If you can't play with energy and match the opposing teams energy after multiple days of rest, what are you going to do come playoff time?

And if this is really the case, let's bring in some players that will bring it every night.

If Kobe is blaming age then he's basically admitting we're finished. Nothing can be done about that without a trade. You don't just "play through that". This should have been a 15+ pt blow out win for us but because this team doesn't have any motivation to play hard right from the start we lose games that we have no business losing. It's about at that point where it's too late for this team to do anything about it this season.

I agree.
I hope he was being facetious. He has been sarcastic about the "old" thing before. Maybe he didn't mean it to be taken seriously, but if he did then yeah, were F'd unless there's a haul coming trading-wise.
I have little to no doubt that Pau is getting moved.

I still don't think athleticism is the problem on D (it is a problem, but not the main problem), and I hope players realize it is actually within their control to play better at that end of the floor. Stop blaming factors outside of themselves, and admit it's mostly about their own effort, chemistry, dedication and communication.

Sorry, but anyone blaming Kobe at all for tonight should lose all credibility on CL.

Paulina 2-11
D12 1-7
Ron 6-17

Enough said. If anything Kobe should have gone into complete ballhog mode tonight.

JGC, dude, seriously, you are just obnoxious. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

JGC wrote:So, basically, we played a good game, moved the ball well as a team, just couldn't knock down shots. You really think we need to play the same way next game and every game because everything was great other than the shots not falling?

Wow. If you thought we had good ball movement today, I got some stuff to sell ya! Haha.

Finwë wrote:LOL. So with "better" ball movement the WIDE OPEN 3pt opportunities our guys bricked and bricked all of the sudden become more open or somehow better shots and start to fall... ? How does ball movement improve an already wide open shot?
Guys weren't hitting anything, and while our ball movement was poor, there wasn't much but the fact that they were just straight up ice cold tonight. Meeks had 2 WIDE OPEN momentum-carrying corner 3s (both passes came from Kobe btw ) and missed them. And that's our best 3pt shooter along with Nash. Nash missed his 3pt shots, and he took the same ones he usually takes. MWP bricked his when in the game against NY he was making the same shots. Morris has always been inconsistent. Kobe missed some he's been making consistently.

No, I don't think the team played well on offense. I do think some of our players just missed some very makeable shots, but it was clear to me that there were many things not working out there.

I actually kept saying in the GD thread "please try something different. Shots aren't falling, try something else, attack the basket, run P&R, post guys up, enough with this ISO game and taking long jumpers". Said it a bunch of times.
But I guess it's easier just to make up stuff and pretend that's what I said, right?

I think what you are doing here is pathetic. Not even trying to have a real discussion, putting words in people's mouths and blatantly ignoring several stuff that is issued as a reply to your post.
You try SO hard, but I don't think you're pulling it off. You are not funny, you don't sound smarter than other posters, and your efforts to reduce other's ideas to statements you then proceed to ask rethorical questions about is, again, PATHETIC, IMHO.

borri wrote:Sorry, but anyone blaming Kobe at all for tonight should lose all credibility on CL.

Paulina 2-11
D12 1-7
Ron 6-17

Enough said. If anything Kobe should have gone into complete ballhog mode tonight.

Come on. Do you really think it would have been wise for Kobe to go hero ball and not assist any teammates?

At the end of the game we almost needed Kobe ball. Bad decisions down the stretch though.

Though my problem is, he CAME OUT IN THE FIRST with a "im just gonna score" mentality. Was looking to get a shot up the whole night.

Think we should've let Nash orchestrate more tonight. Get guys looks. Get em engaged on D.

Kobe benefits this team 99% of the time, but I thought tonight his play was selfish from the get go.

JGC wrote:

borri wrote:Sorry, but anyone blaming Kobe at all for tonight should lose all credibility on CL.

Paulina 2-11
D12 1-7
Ron 6-17

Enough said. If anything Kobe should have gone into complete ballhog mode tonight.

Come on. Do you really think it would have been wise for Kobe to go hero ball and not assist any teammates?

Yes, hell yes. An assist is an assist if someone makes a shot.

Our 3 other weapons sucked all night long. Why bother letting a cold shooter shoot the ball? They couldn't hit the side of a barn and you want them to shoot? Really?

If you really want to blame someone, blame Nash for not taking more shots. Only he and Kobe were effective tonight.

Kobe did pass the ball several times though, no one was making their shots though. I mean, yeah, Kobe did take a couple of dumb shots, and he did clearly try to play bail-out hero ball near the end of the game, and it didn't work. But the rest of the team shoots even a few % better and the Lakers win this game(still feeling like a loss for how bad the defense was, but a W where it counts) and no one cares that Kobe took a couple of dumb iso plays.

Chillbongo wrote:At the end of the game we almost needed Kobe ball. Bad decisions down the stretch though.

Though my problem is, he CAME OUT IN THE FIRST with a "im just gonna score" mentality. Was looking to get a shot up the whole night.

Think we should've let Nash orchestrate more tonight. Get guys looks. Get em engaged on D.

Kobe benefits this team 99% of the time, but I thought tonight his play was selfish from the get go.

Can't disagree more. The VAST majority of his shots in the first were GREAT looks. Howard was bad from the get go. So was Pau. If it weren't for Kobe in the first, we'd be down double digits and game would have been over. Moreso, Kobe was making a high percentage of his shots while no one else besides Nash could make a bucket.

People are actually blaming Kobe for tonight? I can't believe what I am reading. I really really can't.

borri wrote:

JGC wrote:

borri wrote:Sorry, but anyone blaming Kobe at all for tonight should lose all credibility on CL.

Paulina 2-11
D12 1-7
Ron 6-17

Enough said. If anything Kobe should have gone into complete ballhog mode tonight.

Come on. Do you really think it would have been wise for Kobe to go hero ball and not assist any teammates?

Yes, hell yes. An assist is an assist if someone makes a shot.

Our 3 other weapons sucked all night long. Why bother letting a cold shooter shoot the ball? They couldn't hit the side of a barn and you want them to shoot? Really?

If you really want to blame someone, blame Nash for not taking more shots. Only he and Kobe were effective tonight.

Well, you got your wish. 0 assists for Kobe tonight. And there were maybe 2 plays where he even tried to pass.

I actually thought Nash was keeping the team in this game. He set guys up, got things going. Kobe's scoring too kept us in. There was little to no passing or moving of the ball by anyone other than Nash though. What a shame.

Chillbongo wrote:At the end of the game we almost needed Kobe ball. Bad decisions down the stretch though.

Though my problem is, he CAME OUT IN THE FIRST with a "im just gonna score" mentality. Was looking to get a shot up the whole night.

Think we should've let Nash orchestrate more tonight. Get guys looks. Get em engaged on D.

Kobe benefits this team 99% of the time, but I thought tonight his play was selfish from the get go.

I'm not sure I agree with the whole "came out in the first with a 'im just gonna score' mentality. A lot of his FGs in that quarter came late in the shot clock on 1 on 1 situations and he found ways to get to the basket, which is what we've been asking from him. Then, for like 7-8 straight possessions (I pointed out the rarity of it in the GD thread) he didn't touch or ask for the ball on offense. Re-watch the first quarter and you'll see for yourself.
He was highly efficient in that quarter and almost everyone was complementary of his play.
I just didn't see it that way.
I do think there came a moment where he went away from what was working (driving) and started just hoisting (spelling?) up jumpers, which weren't really going in. At that point I did complain about that, repeatedly.
If the team had been hitting shots he'd easily ended up with 3-4 assists, I don't think he played much "hero ball" in the game until late in the 4th. That's a stretch where I would've liked to see him make better decisions. I don't mind him taking late game shots, but maybe not fade aways over guys who didn't bite on pump fakes. Give it to Nash, have him set you or a teammate up for a better shot.

EDIT: Borri and Forward Three just made a similar point..

Kobe Bryant alone shoots 14-29 FG (48%)

The entire rest of the team shoot 23-65 FG (35%)

^^^

Yea, and if it wasn't for Kobe, Nash would had 5 assists all game long.

You do realize that if Kobe passed more we would have lost by at least 15 tonight right? Give Kobe scrap for not passing when guys are hitting shots, NOT the other way around.....cuz it make no damn sense.

Pau and D12 played like Luke Walton and Kwame Brown tonight and you want Kobe to pass them the ball more?

Finwë wrote:JGC, dude, seriously, you are just obnoxious. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

JGC wrote:So, basically, we played a good game, moved the ball well as a team, just couldn't knock down shots. You really think we need to play the same way next game and every game because everything was great other than the shots not falling?

Wow. If you thought we had good ball movement today, I got some stuff to sell ya! Haha.

Finwë wrote:LOL. So with "better" ball movement the WIDE OPEN 3pt opportunities our guys bricked and bricked all of the sudden become more open or somehow better shots and start to fall... ? How does ball movement improve an already wide open shot?
Guys weren't hitting anything, and while our ball movement was poor, there wasn't much but the fact that they were just straight up ice cold tonight. Meeks had 2 WIDE OPEN momentum-carrying corner 3s (both passes came from Kobe btw ) and missed them. And that's our best 3pt shooter along with Nash. Nash missed his 3pt shots, and he took the same ones he usually takes. MWP bricked his when in the game against NY he was making the same shots. Morris has always been inconsistent. Kobe missed some he's been making consistently.

No, I don't think the team played well on offense. I do think some of our players just missed some very makeable shots, but it was clear to me that there were many things not working out there.

I actually kept saying in the GD thread "please try something different. Shots aren't falling, try something else, attack the basket, run P&R, post guys up, enough with this ISO game and taking long jumpers". Said it a bunch of times.
But I guess it's easier just to make up stuff and pretend that's what I said, right?

I think what you are doing here is pathetic. Not even trying to have a real discussion, putting words in people's mouths and blatantly ignoring several stuff that is issued as a reply to your post.
You try SO hard, but I don't think you're pulling it off. You are not funny, you don't sound smarter than other posters, and your efforts to reduce other's ideas to statements you then proceed to ask rethorical questions about is, again, PATHETIC, IMHO.

Sorry you took this so hard. Didn't mean to strike a nerve man. We don't agree on a lot but I know what we want is the best for the Lakers franchise!

Anyway, tough loss, Kobe had an off night, we all have to go back to work tomorrow... just sucks all around. Take it easy though, it's just the interwebs, no need to get so personal now. I'm sorry I rarely agree with your point of view, ya just gotta understand not everyone feels the way you do! No need for namecalling and such... but dont worry, I dont take it personally and like i said before, we have a common goal, just two completely opposing perspectives on how to get there! Relax brother!

Chillbongo wrote:At the end of the game we almost needed Kobe ball. Bad decisions down the stretch though.

Though my problem is, he CAME OUT IN THE FIRST with a "im just gonna score" mentality. Was looking to get a shot up the whole night.

Think we should've let Nash orchestrate more tonight. Get guys looks. Get em engaged on D.

Kobe benefits this team 99% of the time, but I thought tonight his play was selfish from the get go.

Saw the game exactly the same as you bro. I felt like you could see guys disengage after a while too because they knew the ball was staying in Kobe's hands. That always bothers me and not everyone notices those kinds of things either.

Agree about Nash as well. His minutes are going to be limited, take advantage of his presence on the floor. Kobe says he can get his any time. Keep saying it but lets get the other guys involved and then you can have yours. I am noticing that more and more posters are starting to see this as well.

At least Kobe made some of his shots, but he didnt do much if anything to help other guys get going. To be fair, no one outside of Nash did either though.

People complaining about the difficult shots he takes only complain when he misses. Quite frankly, I'm amazed by the types of shots he takes, make or miss.

It's not that we're blaming Kobe for the loss or for jacking up too many shots. I feel that with this team Kobe should revert back to the idea of "getting guys going" in the 1st like he did with our 2-peat team.

I didn't think he came out with that mentality. Some shots were great--shot clock going down.

To me it was mainly the second half. Like we know Kobe can "get it going anytime"---I remember a handful of critical time possessions where he held the ball and settled for a contested/difficult shot.

In those moments I really was looking for him to move the ball. Not even make a play. Just move the ball, get guys open looks. After all, 8 seconds left on the shot clock he gets the same look he would have gotten anyways.

You can tell he doesn't trust his teammates [yet?]. Marked difference from 2008-10.

He took some awful shots down the stretch. Even the three he made was as horrible shot. We didn't move the ball at all, but hey even when we did the only making any shots was Artest. Gasol and Howard were getting worked all night long and Nash was short on everything.

Our young guys looked older and our old guys looked ancient.

Remember when Kobe dropped the ball on that open dunk attempt he would have had...yea....we kinda needed that.

Kobe shot 29 times, people might say "hey we needed that because our team shot like crap" but I doubt 29 shots were needed with what? 0 assists? How about be a decoy and pass the ball around. I'm really getting tired of Kobe trying to impress the media with his points & achievements at his age than with winning games. He needs to stop pointing fingers and take a look in the mirror. Nothing over 20 shots anymore please!

GoldenKnight wrote:Kobe shot 29 times, people might say "hey we needed that because our team shot like crap" but I doubt 29 shots were needed with what? 0 assists? How about be a decoy and pass the ball around. I'm really getting tired of Kobe trying to impress the media with his points & achievements at his age than with winning games. He needs to stop pointing fingers and take a look in the mirror. Nothing over 20 shots anymore please!

Get real bud. I'll be shocked if this happens more than 5 times for the reminder of the season

How stupid are people here complaining about Kobe's shots? You want to give it to MWP? he was 6 for 17. Dwight was 1 for 7. Gasol 2 for 12. WHat the hell is wrong with you guys. Pau got blocked on a dunk go freakin figure

GoldenKnight wrote:Kobe shot 29 times, people might say "hey we needed that because our team shot like crap" but I doubt 29 shots were needed with what? 0 assists? How about be a decoy and pass the ball around. I'm really getting tired of Kobe trying to impress the media with his points & achievements at his age than with winning games. He needs to stop pointing fingers and take a look in the mirror. Nothing over 20 shots anymore please!

don't ever bother ... you already know what most of the feedbacks are going to be ... I agree with you though .... we need more balance and Kobe is focused on getting his over team improvment