Kobe Discussion: Clash of the Titus! (671)

Lets Go Lakers wrote:To add further to the stats. Gasol's attempts per game is the lowest of his career. Yeah, a lot of that is on him but some of it isn't. Howard is right around his career average. He actually attempts a lot more shots but he gets fouled so much they don't officially count as shot attempts. Nash's 7.8 shots per is the lowest of his career since he was 26 and with Dallas way back in the days.

Gasol sucks.

Look at my SYNERGY stats. Dwight and Gasol flat out blow.

trodgers wrote:

JGC wrote:Talk is cheap.

Fortunately with Kobe it's NEVER just talk.

Agree. He works hard as always. But sometimes he just tries too hard. Trust your teammates even they are bad FT shooters, soft and no defense. The bottom line is you need them to win games.

odom1year wrote:

trodgers wrote:

JGC wrote:Talk is cheap.

Fortunately with Kobe it's NEVER just talk.

Agree. He works hard as always. But sometimes he just tries too hard. Trust your teammates even they are bad FT shooters, soft and no defense. The bottom line is you need them to win games.

I've seen a lot of posts like this recently criticizing Kobe for taking too many shots, allegedly not trusting his teammates, etc. Frankly I just don't get it.

One of the reasons Kobe takes so many shots is because the Lakers are frequently playing from behind, and as the games wind down he has to shoot the team back into a position where they even have a chance of winning. He's the only player on this team that can reliably put points on the board when we need them.

Sunday's game is a perfect example. Kobe scored 18 of our 22 fourth quarter points. No one else even connected with a field goal, and it wasn't because Kobe was ball-hogging them out of shot attempts: they were just missing. What is Kobe supposed to do in that situation other than put the team on his back and try to match the scoring given up at the other end of the floor? The man is one of the most prolific scorers in NBA history. That's what he does.

For those of you complaining about the number of Kobe's shots, what specifically do you wish he had done differently in this game?

Did he not look for Pau in the post enough? He dumped the ball in there the whole night, and it didn't get us anywhere. When we were losing by 10+ in the fourth quarter, was he supposed to pass up good looks so that someone with a lower field goal percentage could shoot? Do you wish he hadn't shot the two corner threes that got us back in the game?

Without Kobe we'd be getting blown out by 15+ points on a regular basis. It is mind-boggling to me that anyone thinks he's the reason we're losing games. Now he racks up 7 assists and makes a concerted effort to get everyone involved, goes off in the fourth quarter, and almost wins us the game. STILL people register the same complaints. If Jesus Christ was playing for us he couldn't satisfy these people.

trodgers wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:To add further to the stats. Gasol's attempts per game is the lowest of his career. Yeah, a lot of that is on him but some of it isn't. Howard is right around his career average. He actually attempts a lot more shots but he gets fouled so much they don't officially count as shot attempts. Nash's 7.8 shots per is the lowest of his career since he was 26 and with Dallas way back in the days.

Gasol sucks.

Look at my SYNERGY stats. Dwight and Gasol flat out blow.

Are there any stats to show the quality of the shot relative to their skills though? I mean, if you feel that we are playing Dwight and Gasol the right way then I suppose the stats have merit.

But if you feel (as I do) that we're not playing them the right way, then the stats are only going to reflect that.

Also a good chance it's some combination of the two, but factoring in the way Gasol played in the offseason, and then factoring in WHO Dwight Howard is, has been and should still be, it's hard for me to believe this is the best they would do on any given team.

Kobe has a choice...personal milestones or more championships. The latter looks unattainable at this point so he just want another scoring title. look for more high 20's in FG attempts.

^ Yeah but that doesn't make sense. He's been taking tons of shots all season long (although, possibly a bit less early on in the season).

Kobe is just trying to win. I don't see how you can question his desire to win. I don't think it's a question of misplaced desire, it's more ... not exactly knowing how to take that desire and funnel it in to team success on the court. And he's going to need some help from the coaching staff on that, but he also needs to trust his teammates more.

Well he has always been a believer in winning and getting personal glory. I don't think he can get both at this point. He won't sacrifice his scoring, he'll probably miss the play-offs for the second time in his career.

As I said before I'm not complaining if he goes for the scoring title (last season too, inexplicably just giving it to Durant) dude has five championships, he can proceed whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned.

JGC wrote:

trodgers wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:To add further to the stats. Gasol's attempts per game is the lowest of his career. Yeah, a lot of that is on him but some of it isn't. Howard is right around his career average. He actually attempts a lot more shots but he gets fouled so much they don't officially count as shot attempts. Nash's 7.8 shots per is the lowest of his career since he was 26 and with Dallas way back in the days.

Gasol sucks.

Look at my SYNERGY stats. Dwight and Gasol flat out blow.

Are there any stats to show the quality of the shot relative to their skills though? I mean, if you feel that we are playing Dwight and Gasol the right way then I suppose the stats have merit.

What would be a good shot for Gasol? One at the rim? One 3-9' out? One 10-15' out? Those stats are all available. I've posted them on this site. The Rock has posted his post play numbers (something like 31% FGs, .79 Points Per Possession - both horrendous). His numbers are dreadful.

But if you feel (as I do) that we're not playing them the right way, then the stats are only going to reflect that.

I don't think there's a right way to play Gasol right now, at least not in the starting lineup.

Also a good chance it's some combination of the two, but factoring in the way Gasol played in the offseason, and then factoring in WHO Dwight Howard is, has been and should still be, it's hard for me to believe this is the best they would do on any given team.

I think Gasol could do better elsewhere, but I also think he could do better here if he simply embraced the best use of his talents. No matter how bad his shooting is, he's still an exceptionally good passing big. Pass the ball. Move off the ball. Block shots. Those are things he can do no matter how few touches he's getting.

trodgers wrote:

JGC wrote:

trodgers wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:To add further to the stats. Gasol's attempts per game is the lowest of his career. Yeah, a lot of that is on him but some of it isn't. Howard is right around his career average. He actually attempts a lot more shots but he gets fouled so much they don't officially count as shot attempts. Nash's 7.8 shots per is the lowest of his career since he was 26 and with Dallas way back in the days.

Gasol sucks.

Look at my SYNERGY stats. Dwight and Gasol flat out blow.

Are there any stats to show the quality of the shot relative to their skills though? I mean, if you feel that we are playing Dwight and Gasol the right way then I suppose the stats have merit.

What would be a good shot for Gasol? One at the rim? One 3-9' out? One 10-15' out? Those stats are all available. I've posted them on this site. The Rock has posted his post play numbers (something like 31% FGs, .79 Points Per Possession - both horrendous). His numbers are dreadful.

But if you feel (as I do) that we're not playing them the right way, then the stats are only going to reflect that.

I don't think there's a right way to play Gasol right now, at least not in the starting lineup.

Also a good chance it's some combination of the two, but factoring in the way Gasol played in the offseason, and then factoring in WHO Dwight Howard is, has been and should still be, it's hard for me to believe this is the best they would do on any given team.

I think Gasol could do better elsewhere, but I also think he could do better here if he simply embraced the best use of his talents. No matter how bad his shooting is, he's still an exceptionally good passing big. Pass the ball. Move off the ball. Block shots. Those are things he can do no matter how few touches he's getting.

Well, I would think just about any of this stats would be negatively impacted by not being put in a position to succeed. It wouldn't surprise me if his 'close' shots were worse than some of his jumpers for instance, because he seems to take more jumpers thus has no real rhythm in the post. (Data could show I'm wrong about this but just hypothesizing).

Either way, I'm not disagreeing you, just trying to give a little context to the data which I think sometimes can get missed. I just don't think we're getting the best we can possibly get out of a lot of our players. Stats can't confirm or reject that, well, at least until these guys go and play somewhere and put up the numbers to prove me right or wrong, haha.

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Kobe has a choice...personal milestones or more championships. The latter looks unattainable at this point so he just want another scoring title. look for more high 20's in FG attempts.

Let's get a few things straight. None of us have made it to the NBA to begin with. None of us have played 17 NBA seasons and still averaged 30/5/5 at the age of 34. No one here was selected for 14 All-Star appearances. And we certainly haven't scored 30,000+ points, won two gold medals, an MVP, and five championship rings. You know who has done all that? Kobe Bryant. That's the person whose character you're questioning.

Do you really believe that a person with that drive, dedication, and God-given talent would choose a personal accolade like a one-year scoring title over the historic accomplishment of tying or surpassing Michael Jordan for his number of championships? Better yet, do you really believe that Kobe even contemplates such a thing? "Hmm... I have a choice to make. Should I win more championships or just keep chucking up shots?"

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and he makes game-time decisions based on what he thinks is most likely to help the Lakers win. I'm not saying he is beyond reproach or constructive criticism, but why on earth would you think that you know better than him how to win professional basketball games? How many have you won?

It's shocking that so many Lakers fans are throwing Kobe under the bus as a way of dealing with this nightmarish season. One day he's going to retire, and we'll all regret that he's not around anymore. Enjoy him while you can, I say.

Gotcha, JGC.

Fish Slayer wrote:
Let's get a few things straight. None of us have made it to the NBA to begin with. None of us have played 17 NBA seasons and still averaged 30/5/5 at the age of 34. No one here was selected for 14 All-Star appearances. And we certainly haven't scored 30,000+ points, won two gold medals, an MVP, and five championship rings. You know who has done all that? Kobe Bryant. That's the person whose character you're questioning.

Do you really believe that a person with that drive, dedication, and God-given talent would choose a personal accolade like a one-year scoring title over the historic accomplishment of tying or surpassing Michael Jordan for his number of championships? Better yet, do you really believe that Kobe even contemplates such a thing? "Hmm... I have a choice to make. Should I win more championships or just keep chucking up shots?"

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and he makes game-time decisions based on what he thinks is most likely to help the Lakers win. I'm not saying he is beyond reproach or constructive criticism, but why on earth would you think that you know better than him how to win professional basketball games? How many have you won?

It's shocking that so many Lakers fans are throwing Kobe under the bus as a way of dealing with this nightmarish season. One day he's going to retire, and we'll all regret that he's not around anymore. Enjoy him while you can, I say.

Great post

The Laker girl Kobe is following on twitter

.... so Kobe for a 50+ streak?

DJ-RaZ-Q#24 wrote:.... so Kobe for a 50+ streak?

The closest he'll get to a 50 streak is minutes.

If anyone even thinks about giving Kobe crap for shooting now.....well, mods just use the banhammer on em.

Time for 4 straight 60 point games. Its been a while

Its time for 100 points....now or never...Lets go Mamba kick their [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.]

I genuinely feel bad for him. Probably in his last years and its not working out

Finwë wrote:

Fish Slayer wrote:
Let's get a few things straight. None of us have made it to the NBA to begin with. None of us have played 17 NBA seasons and still averaged 30/5/5 at the age of 34. No one here was selected for 14 All-Star appearances. And we certainly haven't scored 30,000+ points, won two gold medals, an MVP, and five championship rings. You know who has done all that? Kobe Bryant. That's the person whose character you're questioning.

Do you really believe that a person with that drive, dedication, and God-given talent would choose a personal accolade like a one-year scoring title over the historic accomplishment of tying or surpassing Michael Jordan for his number of championships? Better yet, do you really believe that Kobe even contemplates such a thing? "Hmm... I have a choice to make. Should I win more championships or just keep chucking up shots?"

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and he makes game-time decisions based on what he thinks is most likely to help the Lakers win. I'm not saying he is beyond reproach or constructive criticism, but why on earth would you think that you know better than him how to win professional basketball games? How many have you won?

It's shocking that so many Lakers fans are throwing Kobe under the bus as a way of dealing with this nightmarish season. One day he's going to retire, and we'll all regret that he's not around anymore. Enjoy him while you can, I say.

Great post

+1!

I hope Kobe retires after this season.

Lakerjones wrote:

Finwë wrote:

Fish Slayer wrote:
Let's get a few things straight. None of us have made it to the NBA to begin with. None of us have played 17 NBA seasons and still averaged 30/5/5 at the age of 34. No one here was selected for 14 All-Star appearances. And we certainly haven't scored 30,000+ points, won two gold medals, an MVP, and five championship rings. You know who has done all that? Kobe Bryant. That's the person whose character you're questioning.

Do you really believe that a person with that drive, dedication, and God-given talent would choose a personal accolade like a one-year scoring title over the historic accomplishment of tying or surpassing Michael Jordan for his number of championships? Better yet, do you really believe that Kobe even contemplates such a thing? "Hmm... I have a choice to make. Should I win more championships or just keep chucking up shots?"

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and he makes game-time decisions based on what he thinks is most likely to help the Lakers win. I'm not saying he is beyond reproach or constructive criticism, but why on earth would you think that you know better than him how to win professional basketball games? How many have you won?

It's shocking that so many Lakers fans are throwing Kobe under the bus as a way of dealing with this nightmarish season. One day he's going to retire, and we'll all regret that he's not around anymore. Enjoy him while you can, I say.

Great post

+1!

agreed and absolutely agreed . couldn t say it better to all of you haters