Kobe Discussion: shark swimming / #prayforthesharks (664)

Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

JGC wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

Honestly, I think at times we THINK he has to 'carry' the team on both ends of the floor. The reality is, he doesn't on MOST nights if he (and we, as a team) play the right way together. And when we're not playing the right way together, a lot of that is going to go on Kobe as well. He's the leader of this team. That means you don't get to take the credit for the team playing well together, if you won't also accept any responsibility for the team not playing well together.

I also don't get the comments Kobe "having" to do things. Like exert energy on defense. Carry the team. Play on both ends of the floor. He's a freaking all-star/superstar making $30M per year which is more than any other player in the league. Saying he "has" to try on defense or carry the team, or play on both ends of the floor is like saying Howard "has" to be the anchor of the defense or Nash "has" to get teammates shots.

FWIW, Kobe played a bad game against the Heat, I even gave him the Zero, but I really don't think one can BLAME Kobe for the loss. That might not make any sense, but, the whole team was out of sorts and I for one don't think it was because of Kobe. But we hung in there, we were RIGHT there against an elite team and defending champs. I think we lost the game in the first half. I mean 16 turnovers in a HALF? Unacceptable. And sure, we were up by 1, but if commit your average (which is still high) we should have been up double digits.

Rooscooter wrote:

JGC wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

Honestly, I think at times we THINK he has to 'carry' the team on both ends of the floor. The reality is, he doesn't on MOST nights if he (and we, as a team) play the right way together. And when we're not playing the right way together, a lot of that is going to go on Kobe as well. He's the leader of this team. That means you don't get to take the credit for the team playing well together, if you won't also accept any responsibility for the team not playing well together.

I also don't get the comments Kobe "having" to do things. Like exert energy on defense. Carry the team. Play on both ends of the floor. He's a freaking all-star/superstar making $30M per year which is more than any other player in the league. Saying he "has" to try on defense or carry the team, or play on both ends of the floor is like saying Howard "has" to be the anchor of the defense or Nash "has" to get teammates shots.

FWIW, Kobe played a bad game against the Heat, I even gave him the Zero, but I really don't think one can BLAME Kobe for the loss. That might not make any sense, but, the whole team was out of sorts and I for one don't think it was because of Kobe. But we hung in there, we were RIGHT there against an elite team and defending champs. I think we lost the game in the first half. I mean 16 turnovers in a HALF? Unacceptable. And sure, we were up by 1, but if commit your average (which is still high) we should have been up double digits.

Kobe did what he was asked to do last night didn't he?.... he played decoy and on the perimeter while we tried to get Howard involved early.... he even forced some passes to Howard in that effort. Giving Kobe the ball with 8 seconds left on the shot clock 30 feet from the hoop and saying the out come "wasn't a good game" is missing all that took place before that moment of the missed shot or the forced pass..... The game plan was blown up at the 11:40 mark of the first quarter..... yet we didn't adjust.... didn't change..... didn't try different lineups..... Finally in the late 4th we ran a few down picks and got Kobe on the move and he got a sliver of daylight to shoot.... and guess what?... he made most of them. Now lets see if the coaching staff remembers that or if we go back to the pick and roll 40 feet from the hoop again.

As for your continued comments about Kobe's effort on both ends..... bias is one thing but this is getting somewhat ridiculous IMO. Kobe is on the floor way too much IMO and that results in what you are seeing and interpreting as some sort of pre-meditated act..... The rest of the team..... you know... the ones with all of the Awards.... they are the ones that are not pulling their own weight at this point. Why is Kobe carrying this squad like he carried Kwame and Smush?.... I'll give you a hint. It's not "selfishness" that was proven in the 08-11 stretch.....

Armani wrote:He played well in the 4th quarter, but was horrible in the first 3. We might have won had he played like himself for longer. TO's, contested shots... gah.

JGC wrote:

If you're suggesting that Kobe views Dwight Howard and Steve Nash as Kwame Brown and Smush Parker, then maybe you're raising an interesting point.

Rooscooter wrote:

JGC wrote:

If you're suggesting that Kobe views Dwight Howard and Steve Nash as Kwame Brown and Smush Parker, then maybe you're raising an interesting point.

Not a "point"..... just an observation. The Lakers on paper have a "super-team".... yet Kobe's role hasn't been this demanding since we had Kwame and Smush....

There are ones here like you that see it as a Kobe thing..... I don't and see it as a everyone but Kobe thing. That's not to say I believe Kobe is playing perfect or even great most of the time..... rather playing the only way he knows.... harder. Some of the others seem to have packed it up this year with the exception of MWP and some of the bench players that are playing for jobs next year.

It's interesting that the criticism is falling on Kobe when so little seems to fall on the others who are not pulling their weight.

As for last night's game. It was obvious there was a game plan to put Kobe on the perimeter and draw the defense away from Howard and Nash to allow them to play pick and roll..... that was nullified the first 3 possessions.... yet we forced it for the next 42 minutes. All Kobe got in the way of opportunities last night where the typical "toss it to Kobe at the end of the shot clock" shots until someone on the bench tried something different in the final few minutes. Combine that with the misses from the line and the turnovers......

LOS ANGELES -- It was asking a lot of Kobe Bryant when the Los Angeles Lakers shifted to assigning the 34-year-old to guarding the opposing team's most dynamic guard while still relying on him on the offensive end.

It was asking so much, in fact, that Bryant admitted after the Lakers' 99-90 loss to the Miami Heat on Thursday that he will need some help to be able to continue it.

After holding Cleveland's Kyrie Irving to just 15 points and Milwaukee's Brandon Jennings to 12 points in consecutive wins while still averaging 27.0 points on 63.6 percent shooting the past two games, Bryant's defense and offense both took a major hit against Miami.

Not only did Bryant's man on defense, Dwyane Wade, score 27 points on 11-for-20 shooting, but Bryant's offense also struggled, as he scored just 22 points on 8-for-25 shooting (32 percent).

Bryant, who leads the league in scoring at 29.7 points per game, said that alleviating some pressure on him on offense will in turn allow him to apply more pressure on defense.

"If (guarding the opposing team's offensive threat) is going to be something that I'm going to have to do for a while, I'm going to need my teammates' help to free up offensively," Bryant said. "Like we did in the fourth quarter -- create some picks for me, create some easy shots. That's going to be tough for me to guard the top guy and come down the other end and have to go one-on-one every play. So, I'm going to need some help."

He brought up the issue several times during his postgame remarks to the media.

"I need some help offensively to save energy and not have to isolate and do things like that," Bryant said. "I'm going to need some picks. I'm going to need to catch-and-shoot like I did in the fourth quarter a little bit to make my job a little easier. I think the first three quarters of me just standing around the perimeter, the defense is praying for that. We have to do some things to free me up and get me in open spaces, this way I can be more active on the defensive end of the floor."

Bryant started the game with just nine points on 3-for-16 shooting through the first three quarters before getting things going in the fourth, putting up 13 points on 5-for-9 shooting in the final frame thanks in part to getting open looks from the 3-point line off a screen set by Pau Gasol as well as a handoff assist from Gasol.

"We talked about it going into the fourth quarter. I said, 'Coach D man, goddamn. Come on, man. Come on, man. I can't be standing out here like this all night long now,'" Bryant said, recalling a conversation with Lakers coach Mike D'Antoni. "We did a much better job of that. My teammates know. We got to pick each other up. I'm going to go out there and do what I got to do defensively, and then on the offensive end of the floor we'll pick each other up."

Point guard Steve Nash, the man responsible for orchestrating the show on offense, agreed that the Lakers can make it easier on his fellow 17-year veteran teammate.

"Ideally, we should be able to make them pay in other areas of the court," Nash said. "We should make problems for people with Dwight [Howard] on the block, Pau on the block. When they're doubling my pick-and-rolls, the game should open up because it should be a 3-on-2 or 2-on-1 on the weakside. I just don't think we were efficient enough elsewhere tonight. He shouldn't have to carry us like that all the time. We have good enough players that we should be able to take advantage of elsewhere on the court."

Howard suggested that the contributions of Wade, whom Bryant was assigned to keep in check, had a bigger impact on the outcome than LeBron James' 39 points on 17-for-25 shooting on offense.

"I think what hurt us was Dwyane," Howard said. "LeBron is going to get his points, but to be able to control Dwyane and Chris Bosh (who had just seven points on 3-for-10 shooting), we have a better chance of winning. Tonight, D-Wade had it going on offense."

Bryant put some of the offensive blame on himself for the fact that only nine of his 25 shot attempts were from 15 feet away from the basket or closer.

"I take responsibility for that," Bryant said. "I allowed myself to be too big of a decoy tonight. … I'll take the brunt of it because I should have been way more aggressive and not allowed myself to be on the perimeter. To have to take 25-footers all night long, that's just not going to happen again."

What will happen again is Bryant playing defense on the Lakers' opponents' best weapon to try to disrupt their offense.

"We have to do that," D'Antoni said before the game. "That's really good and it works. Can we give him a day off from it? Maybe. Can we give him a little less (playing) time? Yeah. But, anybody that does something that well, we kind of have to do it for a while.

"Kobe being on the ball is a big deal. He sets the tone for us defensively. He has done that and taken on that leadership role, and when that happens, we've been pretty good lately."

borri wrote:^^^

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

borri wrote:^^^

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

Thats the closest thing I've ever heard to an admission like that in his career. Dude is tapped.

Chillbongo wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

borri wrote:^^^

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

Thats the closest thing I've ever heard to an admission like that in his career. Dude is tapped.

I wouldn't say that. I think he's.......

1. Trying to motivate his teammates

2. Telling Jim Buss or WTF is in charge these days to get a play making, defensive wing.

He be sneaky like dat

borri wrote:

Chillbongo wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

borri wrote:^^^

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

Thats the closest thing I've ever heard to an admission like that in his career. Dude is tapped.

I wouldn't say that. I think he's.......

1. Trying to motivate his teammates

2. Telling Jim Buss or WTF is in charge these days to get a play making, defensive wing.

He be sneaky like dat

I wish you are right. But when you look at how he's been playing defense the past 3 years up until the recent spell, Kobe's been saving his energy for offense.

We know what he can do on the defensive side of the ball, witness Irving and Jennings. The problem is, Kobe has realized and we have missed it, that he can't do it consistently anymore AND be efficient on offense. That's why he cheats so much on D before. Never really guarding his man but resting and hoping to get a steal by cheating on D.

What can we realistically expect? Dude has so much mileage on his legs that this is bound to happen.

When Kobe said, "we are old.", he is 100% right. Sometimeswe forget that he included himself in that statement.

borri wrote:^^^

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

Rooscooter wrote:Not a "point"..... just an observation. The Lakers on paper have a "super-team".... yet Kobe's role hasn't been this demanding since we had Kwame and Smush....