Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

I think i saw a stat line yesterday where in our wins, Kobe is averaging 22 ppg while in our losses, he's averaging like 30 ppg. Or it could've been during our 13-5 run he's averaging only 22 ppg. Correct me if i'm wrong if someone knows.

But it's obvious that too much Kobe is not good for this team. The Kobe that takes what the defense gives him and makes the correct decision to either pass or shoot is the one that makes this team the more dangerous. The Kobe that imposes his will and decides to take the tough, contested shot without even making an attempt to get a better shot hurts this team.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Does Kobe really think that he can beat a great TEAM like OKC by himself? Those 30 foot 3 point attempts were an utter disgrace and a slap in the face to team basketball. I mean come on.

Agreed. Everyone played a picture perfect game except Bryant. He totally let them down again.

Wait...that's not what happened.

Weezy wrote:And here come the usual suspects out of hiding. Where were you when Kobe was putting up 35 ppg the last 5 and we were winning almost every one?

Well, we were winning. And Kobe was playing out of his mind of late. So even if he was going a tad on the ball hog side, i couldn't complain given that we were winning and his efficiency was off the charts.

But his 30 foot 3 point attempts along with a few other possessions were what got me yesterday.

When Nash hit that 3, we were down only 6 and had some momentum. That's when Kobe put on his ball hog hat and completely shot us out of the game.

^^^The rest of the team went 0-5 during that stretch. Kobe's fault?

Doc Brown wrote:^^^The rest of the team went 0-5 during that stretch. Kobe's fault?

Not Kobe's fault entirely but it's how he went about it that bothered me. The 30 foot 3 pointers. The fancy spin move right into the double team of Westbrook, which led to the dunk. He was primarily looking to get his own shot first without looking to try to manufacture an easy basket. The only thing saving him from complete ridicule from me is that he did find a couple of open spot up shooters and they just missed.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:When Nash hit that 3, we were down only 6 and had some momentum. That's when Kobe put on his ball hog hat and completely shot us out of the game.

It was definitely a game we could have won down the stretch. Had Jamison hit something...anything, had MWP not freelanced on the 3 and fast break, had Nash been involved in the 4th, had the team set Dwight up for at least one 4th quarter shot, had Meeks not gotten abused by Jackson, had Kobe hit something in the final 6 minutes of the 4th. But to be honest, even when we were down by 6, and looked to be making a push I still fully expected a loss. Going to use a Fast and Furious reference here...you remember in the first one when Brian (walker) races Dom (diesel) and he's starting to pull ahead for a second and he's all excited cause he thinks he's about to beat Dom and win the race, then all nonchalantly Dom hits the nos and puts Brian in his rear view...and after the race Dom just laughs at him and tells him that not only did he not have the race, he couldn't even control his car. Well that's what the game reminded me of. They were in control the entire time. Kobe didn't shoot us out of anything. We were playing over our heads for a bit, then OKC put us out of our misery with their run to close out the game.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:I think i saw a stat line yesterday where in our wins, Kobe is averaging 22 ppg while in our losses, he's averaging like 30 ppg. Or it could've been during our 13-5 run he's averaging only 22 ppg. Correct me if i'm wrong if someone knows.

But it's obvious that too much Kobe is not good for this team. The Kobe that takes what the defense gives him and makes the correct decision to either pass or shoot is the one that makes this team the more dangerous. The Kobe that imposes his will and decides to take the tough, contested shot without even making an attempt to get a better shot hurts this team.

uhmm no. where were you as kobe bryant had an average over 35 points over the last games and the team won. so no you are not right but i guess now that they lost one game you wanted to join the hate the kobe train again. disgusting

Lets Go Lakers are you really that of a big kobe hater and what game did you see yesterday ? kobe was the reason why lakers were still in the game in the 1st half despite playing with obvious pain. no one else could hit a shot in the 1st half. oh yeah and you say missing some open jumpers by the lakers in the 4th and that bonehead play by mwp as he had a steal but instead of pulling back as he went on a fast break 1 on 3 and bobbled the layup would be also kobe s fault. man you are so disgusting

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

Weezy wrote:And here come the usual suspects out of hiding. Where were you when Kobe was putting up 35 ppg the last 5 and we were winning almost every one?

Well, we were winning. And Kobe was playing out of his mind of late. So even if he was going a tad on the ball hog side, i couldn't complain given that we were winning and his efficiency was off the charts.

But his 30 foot 3 point attempts along with a few other possessions were what got me yesterday.

Kobe missed a 25' three pointer at 8:07
He missed a 28' three pointer at 2:31

Are those the 30' shots you're talking about?

Here's what happened between those shots.
MWP hits a 4' jumper.
Kobe hits a layup.
Metta hits a 3.
Nash hits a 3.
Metta misses a 3.
Kobe misses a 14' jumper.
Nash misses a 24' 3.
MWP misses a layup.
Kobe has a 2' layup blocked.

I don't know that I'd blame Kobe for that, and the first 3 didn't seem to matter (teammates still hit shots); the second one was when the game was already gone (that was over when Metta missed his layup).

Can't call people haters here (CL policy), so please don't ask rhetorical questions that accomplish the same task.

JSM wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:When Nash hit that 3, we were down only 6 and had some momentum. That's when Kobe put on his ball hog hat and completely shot us out of the game.

It was definitely a game we could have won down the stretch. Had Jamison hit something...anything, had MWP not freelanced on the 3 and fast break, had Nash been involved in the 4th, had the team set Dwight up for at least one 4th quarter shot, had Meeks not gotten abused by Jackson, had Kobe hit something in the final 6 minutes of the 4th. But to be honest, even when we were down by 6, and looked to be making a push I still fully expected a loss. Going to use a Fast and Furious reference here...you remember in the first one when Brian (walker) races Dom (diesel) and he's starting to pull ahead for a second and he's all excited cause he thinks he's about to beat Dom and win the race, then all nonchalantly Dom hits the nos and puts Brian in his rear view...and after the race Dom just laughs at him and tells him that not only did he not have the race, he couldn't even control his car. Well that's what the game reminded me of. They were in control the entire time. Kobe didn't shoot us out of anything. We were playing over our heads for a bit, then OKC put us out of our misery with their run to close out the game.

I see where you're coming from. It happens all the time. Team is down by a ton, takes all of their energy just to catch up and they have nothing left to win the game. I wasn't as pessimistic as you when Nash nailed the 3 but i knew our chances were slim and that we had to play almost perfect ball from that point forward. We obviously didn't.

it pisses me so damn off to see you post over kobe only when we are loosing because you are such an kobe hater mr.Lets Go Lakers

times a million at coming in and complaining about those shots.

Those were the EXACT same shots he was taking the last 5 games when you were nowhere to be seen complaining. At least with some people they were decent enough to continue hating those shots, but to come in here and act like "oh man I can't believe he was taking those shots!" like he hasn't been doing that since the All-Star break is utterly ridiculous.

I thought he played fantastic given his elbow troubles. And if guys hit shots down the stretch (I'm looking at Metta, Nash, and Jamison) then we might win that game. Howard had given up on getting touches already at that point.

kobebryant248 wrote:it pisses me so damn off to see you post over kobe only when we are loosing because you are such an kobe hater mr.Lets Go Lakers

Did you not see Trodgers post?

Back to the topic, pretty much a wasted season for a brilliant performance by 24. But I think it's safe to say it...playing with Kobe, isn't easy. Even in the heated exchange that supposedly happened between Dwight and Kob, Kobe said it himself...he knows he's hard to play with, but will do anything it takes to compete for a title. Although it worked, Kobe as the primary facilitator when you have Nash on the team isn't a long term solution. Kobe is a scorer and he needs to be put in a situation, where he can score easily. That being said, Kobe isos as we continue to neuter Nash, isn't the right way of going about this.

We outrebounded them, shot more free throws than them, shot a respectable percentage from 3 and still got routed. Meanwhile, they had more assists and protected the ball, while our ball sticked a whole lot and was turned over frequently. When you have ball handlers like Kobe and Nash, yet there is no movement of the ball and bad possessions...you ain't running the right offense. Yeah he was in foul trouble, but zero shot attempts by your post player in the 2nd half. This isn't playoff basketball and we're running out of time to figure it out.

Vasashi17 wrote:

kobebryant248 wrote:it pisses me so damn off to see you post over kobe only when we are loosing because you are such an kobe hater mr.Lets Go Lakers

Did you not see Trodgers post?

Back to the topic, pretty much a wasted season for a brilliant performance by 24. But I think it's safe to say it...playing with Kobe, isn't easy. Even in the heated exchange that supposedly happened between Dwight and Kob, Kobe said it himself...he knows he's hard to play with, but will do anything it takes to compete for a title. Although it worked, Kobe as the primary facilitator when you have Nash on the team isn't a long term solution. Kobe is a scorer and he needs to be put in a situation, where he can score easily. That being said, Kobe isos as we continue to neuter Nash, isn't the right way of going about this.

We outrebounded them, shot more free throws than them, shot a respectable percentage from 3 and still got routed. Meanwhile, they had more assists and protected the ball, while our ball sticked a whole lot and was turned over frequently. When you have ball handlers like Kobe and Nash, yet there is no movement of the ball and bad possessions...you ain't running the right offense. Yeah he was in foul trouble, but zero shot attempts by your post player in the 2nd half. This isn't playoff basketball and we're running out of time to figure it out.

I agree with your points. But i'm not asking Kobe to be a facilitator like a PG. Just to make the right decision. When the double comes, pass it. When you have single coverage, take advantage. Make the right basketball decisions. That's what LeBron does 90% of the time. He makes his team more potent because he's always making the right decisions whether to shoot or pass.

You saw how open other guys were when Kobe was making the right decisions cause he naturally draws so much attention. All he has to do is find the open man. I'm not talking about purposely trying to create an open look for another player like a PG would but to simply make the right decision when the time comes.

It's pretty obvious Kobe does not make the right decision a lot of time. He forgets to involve the team for stretches. He forgets to try to manufacture the easiest shot possible. He sometimes tries to do it himself and that's not going to work against elite teams. Maybe it will against inferior teams but not elite teams.

It's the theme that has happened in every big game since our championship years. Kobe is the only person that shows up, while his teammates never do, or if they do it's too late. The game was doomed from the start with everyone's deer in headlights play. Kobe was the only reason it was close, by the time his teammates decided to show up we are down by 16.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

lakerfan2 wrote:smh, the team was not moving, howard would set a screen and stand there. everyone else was watching him.

kobe was forced into those shots.

Ummm, maybe because the team is once again CONDITIONED to watch Kobe work on iso because they know he won't pass it even if they are open? It's called a morale killer. And Kobe executes it to perfection at times. Sure, he did not ball hog the entire game and made some timely passes for the outside shot but man, did he do his "forget the team" crap on other occassions. I just hate seeing him forget the team like that. It just makes us so much easier to defend.

ummm, maybe that's THE TEAMS fault for being "CONDITIONED" to watch Kobe? or the coach? You and I know Kobe is willing passer, it's the teams job to help him out and either get him an easier shot or give him an option to pass to.

That's 30ft shot was taken because 1. dwight did not roll, 2. the shot clock was down. 3. the shot clock was down.

lakerfan2 wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

lakerfan2 wrote:smh, the team was not moving, howard would set a screen and stand there. everyone else was watching him.

kobe was forced into those shots.

Ummm, maybe because the team is once again CONDITIONED to watch Kobe work on iso because they know he won't pass it even if they are open? It's called a morale killer. And Kobe executes it to perfection at times. Sure, he did not ball hog the entire game and made some timely passes for the outside shot but man, did he do his "forget the team" crap on other occassions. I just hate seeing him forget the team like that. It just makes us so much easier to defend.

ummm, maybe that's THE TEAMS fault for being "CONDITIONED" to watch Kobe? or the coach? You and I know Kobe is willing passer, it's the teams job to help him out and either get him an easier shot or give him an option to pass to.

That's 30ft shot was taken because 1. dwight did not roll, 2. the shot clock was down. 3. the shot clock was down.

Do you play basketball? If so, you have to know how demoralizing it is to play with a guy who thinks he's the second coming of MJ and doesn't even look to pass. You kind of stand around because you KNOW you won't get the ball even if you bust your arse to get open. On the flip side, if you play with a guy who is unselfish and is great at spotting the open man, it's much easier to try to get open because you know if you are open, you will most likely get the ball. Basketball, like life, is about incentives. The greater the incentive, the easier it is for someone to do something.

I know i'm hard on Kobe but it's because i hold him to a higher standard. He's not only an amazing scorer but an amazing passer when he decides to be. But he forgets to make the right basketball decisions for stretches and that hurts the team in the long run. If he plays more like LeBron and looks to simply play within the flow of the offense, it makes our team more potent because the D has to account for everyone. We saw glimpses of our potential when Kobe was facilitating a lot more.

^ First of all, there are lots of players who don't care about touches. Second of all, none of us have played with Kobe on our team.

When people talk about "playing like LeBron" they forget that James can literally sprint down the court and people will either move or whisper at him and be called for a foul. Kobe hasn't got those luxuries.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

lakerfan2 wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

lakerfan2 wrote:smh, the team was not moving, howard would set a screen and stand there. everyone else was watching him.

kobe was forced into those shots.

Ummm, maybe because the team is once again CONDITIONED to watch Kobe work on iso because they know he won't pass it even if they are open? It's called a morale killer. And Kobe executes it to perfection at times. Sure, he did not ball hog the entire game and made some timely passes for the outside shot but man, did he do his "forget the team" crap on other occassions. I just hate seeing him forget the team like that. It just makes us so much easier to defend.

ummm, maybe that's THE TEAMS fault for being "CONDITIONED" to watch Kobe? or the coach? You and I know Kobe is willing passer, it's the teams job to help him out and either get him an easier shot or give him an option to pass to.

That's 30ft shot was taken because 1. dwight did not roll, 2. the shot clock was down. 3. the shot clock was down.

Do you play basketball? If so, you have to know how demoralizing it is to play with a guy who thinks he's the second coming of MJ and doesn't even look to pass. You kind of stand around because you KNOW you won't get the ball even if you bust your arse to get open. On the flip side, if you play with a guy who is unselfish and is great at spotting the open man, it's much easier to try to get open because you know if you are open, you will most likely get the ball. Basketball, like life, is about incentives. The greater the incentive, the easier it is for someone to do something.

I know i'm hard on Kobe but it's because i hold him to a higher standard. He's not only an amazing scorer but an amazing passer when he decides to be. But he forgets to make the right basketball decisions for stretches and that hurts the team in the long run. If he plays more like LeBron and looks to simply play within the flow of the offense, it makes our team more potent because the D has to account for everyone. We saw glimpses of our potential when Kobe was facilitating a lot more.

Don't question if I play basketball with some poorly stated examples.

There ARE those type of "I think I'm MJ types", but like I said, Kobe isn't one of them. KOBE IS WILLING TO PASS. Put on that player you just described shoes. No one's moving watching you, you're going to pass to them? Or are you going to find the guy who's wide open under the basket or wide open in the corner for the win because they were working to get open? Kobe will do that 9 times out of 10.

Kobe's done that on multiple occasions. Like I said, that play the clock was running down, he had to hoist it up. It wasn't one of those situations where Kobe was hit 2 in a row and he was just heat checking.

Please.

lakerfan2,

If you don't think Kobe has MJ's mentality, i'll stop there. They are the two most egotistical, aggressive and competitive players to ever lace them up. But those traits also allowed them to be the most devastating perimeter scorers in NBA history. You don't become great scorers like them without having an ego. They have an instinct to put the burden on themselves at times and try to score at will. And that's exactly what Kobe does. In the grand scheme of things, you can't blame him because he's successful a lot more than he fails. But in a more perfect world, you would like him to tone it back and think of what makes the team the most effiicient. That's asking for a lot at times, i can admit. So yeah, i am harsh on Kobe because i hold him to a higher standard. But i also know he's perfectly capable to doing this. He just chooses not too at times.

I'm not saying he doesn't have the mentality. I'm saying he doesn't ALWAYS have that mentality.

That's why he takes difficult shots, the last shots moreso than none. But I'm not going to sit here and say Kobe or Michael for that matter would not pass to an open player for working hard and leads to an easy bucket.

Some situations call for Kobe to take shots our of context, sometimes he does, and it's frustrating. But Kobe's the one with 5 rings, so I'll let him be the judge of what he can or can't do.