Kobe Bryant Discussion: Reason for Lakers downfall?

Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Ariza3 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:35 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Start facilitating more and focus on defense (which is basically at an all time low right now, one of the worst defenders in the league)


Yup being the captain and leader he needs to SHOW the team what needs to be changed. If he's not giving it his all on D then why should anyone else...especially Dwight. He needs to understand he can get 30+ and lose or play for his team and with that locked in intensity on D and get his points within the flow of the game and win.

Other than Morris and Jamison who were combined 1/10...Kobe was the least efficient player on our team. If he wants to shoot that much inefficiently then he better tear it up on D for his team. Hes not the reason we lost...it was the entire team's energy and effort; BUT it starts with him to lead his team in the right direction and scoring 34 points on 9/24 without showing ANY energy or effort on D and grabbing NO rebounds isnt the right direction for his team to follow
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:53 pm

Back where he was last season for some games now : chucking .

After a missed shot he :

- stops and whines , doesn't come back on D
- stupidly crashes the O boards ( while our bigs are already doing it ) , the opponent gets the rebound and has numbers on the other end
- gambles ... easy fastbreak for the opponent..

His halfcourt D is terrible too
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby thkthebest on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:05 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Back where he was last season for some games now : chucking .

After a missed shot he :

- stops and whines , doesn't come back on D
- stupidly crashes the O boards ( while our bigs are already doing it ) , the opponent gets the rebound and has numbers on the other end
- gambles ... easy fastbreak for the opponent..

His halfcourt D is terrible too

I hate how so many of our players love to crash the board. It's not just Kobe. Sometimes, I see four players (Hill, Dwight, Ron, and Kobe) trying to get the offensive rebound. Clearly, that's a huge defensive problem for us when we don't get it.

And yea, the whining has got to stop. I wish Kobe just started the season with 15 technical fouls so that he keeps his mouth shut and focuses on basketball.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:27 am

The funny part is offensive rebounding is one of the least important categories correlated with winning games. There simply isn't much benefit to crashing the offensive boards. Your defense suffers massively as a result of it because players are wasting time doing that instead of getting back. It's a horrible strategy and I fear deeply for this team if they continue to do it.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Ariza3 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:22 am

Thus far in 2012-13, the Los Angeles Lakers are 3-9 when Kobe Bryant leads the team in scoring. They're 6-3 when another Laker leads them in said category.


He needs to bring down his shot attempts and play facilitator for Dwight. NOT feed Dwight on back to the basket post ups too far from the rim...I'm talking PnR, drive and drop off, lobs after penetration. Instead of looking for his own baskets, when he drives into a contested paint he shouldnt ALWAYS go for a difficult inefficient shot hoping for a call that isnt gunna come...he should be looking to pass but with the opponent thinking hes gunna score. He's gotta find a balance and he hasnt. Dwight cant be <20ppg. both need to be around 24ppg on average and that comes with kobe sharing the ball
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby KB24 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:28 am

I love Kobe unconditionally.

I have criticized him in the past when he was too stubborn or just didn't meet the admittedly very high standard we have gotten used to. It will be a major blow to me when he retires. I really really really have a hard time preparing myself. its been almost 20 years...its kind of on my schedule to get "entertained" by Kobe Bryant. I have grown accustomed to the clutch shots, the tough shots, the scoring sprees etc.

How can any Laker replace that for me? I really am more sad because I'm not confident any player will ever again be this good, this fun to watch...I love the swag, the look, the mentality, the game, the tricks etc......

We could and will of course at some point end up with other great players but will they be like Kobe? very unlikely. He is old school, he has it all. I'm used to trash talk to other fans and friends...with Kobe have the confidence and in every game there is hope....you are down 20 and Kobe could score 30 in a row. You need a 3 with 1 second, Kobe can deliver that. That ultimate confidence will be gone.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby cthroatgtr on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:08 am

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Start facilitating more and focus on defense (which is basically at an all time low right now, one of the worst defenders in the league)

Why do people think that Kobe can change who he is after 17 years in the league? Better yet go look at any other player in his 17th year and tell me how his defense is....People need to stop looking at Kobe like he can suddenly morph into Magic Johnson on offense and Ron Artest in his prime on defense all while playing too many minutes a night.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:16 am

Yeah kind of wishful thinking to think Kobe can play point guard, then go guard the other team's best player on defense while at the same time looking for his own shot. If his minutes were reduced sure, and he's no spring chicken. If we make the playoffs he'll be spent. With Kobe you're either going to get passing Kobe for most of the game, scoring Kobe for most of the game, or defensive Kobe for most of the game. 28 year old Kobe could do all those things throughout the season and still have a crap load of energy during the postseason, 34 year old Kobe with no reduction in minutes and worn down knees won't be as successful. If we lose or win with either that's the part that matters.

One things he has to stop doing is complaining about not getting calls, his superstar call days are long gone and he's no longer one of the golden boys of the NBA, while he's over there complaining the other guys are like thanks for the extra point.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Murdock on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:20 am

Jazzygirl205 wrote:One things he has to stop doing is complaining about not getting calls, his superstar call days are long gone and he's no longer one of the golden boys of the NBA, while he's over there complaining the other guys are like thanks for the extra point.

amen to that
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Forward Three on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:22 am

Kobe's gonna Kob. Can't really nothing be done about it at this point, sometimes he'll shoot 'too much', sometimes he'll frustrate you, but at the end of the day the times he comes through still outweigh the times he doesn't. This team's problems are a lot deeper than Kobe being Kobe and while it is tempting to want to say "if only he didn't shoot X amount of times" or whatever, in the hierarchy of blame, that's nowhere near the top. Kobe thrives when he can be a gunner, he always has and always will, and I'm much more interested in why our team is afraid of the post, won't collectively play defense for more than two possessions in a row, and relies on hero shot after hero shot to scrape back from deficits they collectively create than I am with why Kobe is doing much the same as he has always done and that we have always loved him for.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby abeer3 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:14 pm

there's no excuse for his defense this year: it's been awful from the start.

however, i'm tired of seeing the "when kobe scores 30" stats. that's assuming a single causal direction from a correlation. the team isn't losing because kobe's scoring more (or shooting more). his shot count tends to trend upwards when the team's already behind. thus, i'd argue that high scoring games from kobe are a result of the team playing poorly, not the other way around.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Battle Tested20 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:20 am

KB24 wrote:I love Kobe unconditionally.

I have criticized him in the past when he was too stubborn or just didn't meet the admittedly very high standard we have gotten used to. It will be a major blow to me when he retires. I really really really have a hard time preparing myself. its been almost 20 years...its kind of on my schedule to get "entertained" by Kobe Bryant. I have grown accustomed to the clutch shots, the tough shots, the scoring sprees etc.

How can any Laker replace that for me? I really am more sad because I'm not confident any player will ever again be this good, this fun to watch...I love the swag, the look, the mentality, the game, the tricks etc......

We could and will of course at some point end up with other great players but will they be like Kobe? very unlikely. He is old school, he has it all. I'm used to trash talk to other fans and friends...with Kobe have the confidence and in every game there is hope....you are down 20 and Kobe could score 30 in a row. You need a 3 with 1 second, Kobe can deliver that. That ultimate confidence will be gone.


Amen. :man5:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Nikez on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:31 am

KB24 wrote:I love Kobe unconditionally.

I have criticized him in the past when he was too stubborn or just didn't meet the admittedly very high standard we have gotten used to. It will be a major blow to me when he retires. I really really really have a hard time preparing myself. its been almost 20 years...its kind of on my schedule to get "entertained" by Kobe Bryant. I have grown accustomed to the clutch shots, the tough shots, the scoring sprees etc.

How can any Laker replace that for me? I really am more sad because I'm not confident any player will ever again be this good, this fun to watch...I love the swag, the look, the mentality, the game, the tricks etc......

We could and will of course at some point end up with other great players but will they be like Kobe? very unlikely. He is old school, he has it all. I'm used to trash talk to other fans and friends...with Kobe have the confidence and in every game there is hope....you are down 20 and Kobe could score 30 in a row. You need a 3 with 1 second, Kobe can deliver that. That ultimate confidence will be gone.

Sadly I have been thinking the same thing. With Kobe Bryant on your team you always have a chance to win. Were not going to realize how much he meant to our team until he retires.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:54 am

I just love Kobe's basketball style. He's always been my favorite player to watch, the one who entertains me the most.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby TrillyandTruly on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:24 am

Finwë wrote:I just love Kobe's basketball style. He's always been my favorite player to watch, the one who entertains me the most.


Same here. I've always loved his footwork mostly, especially when he was in his prime, he was just like a ballerina in Nikes. :jam2:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby therealdeal on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:17 am

This is the thread I've been dying to get into...

Like you guys, I've really come to love Kobe's style and really his approach to the game. It's all about hard work and confidence. He's not the biggest, the strongest, the most athletic, but he's going to out work you before, during, and after every game...

But he's not doing the right things right now.

Like always, he came out early and made his statement: here's the numbers, I can do that too! I can put up those LeBron numbers AND do it at 50/40/90!

But then the injuries started hitting and he started doing it so much that he got tired. Now he's tiring himself out trying to do so many things and he loses focus. Now he's not playing defense. Now he's taking worse shots again. Now he's turning the ball over and not moving the ball enough like last season's offense.

I'm not putting the full blame on him, but I am really sick of watching him get lost defensively while his man gets a layup, a lob, or a wide open shot. Teams are PLANNING for that now. That's GOT to tell him something: STOP. And he doesn't HAVE to do everything offensively. Duhon is no star, but he's professional and he's proven that he can do the job. Let him do more and give us more effort on defense.

I don't care much about the gambling for steals, that's not as big of an issue as his simply LAZY defense. Letting guys move around and not recovering to them. He wants to tell the team to rotate defensively, but he doesn't do it himself. Why should the team listen to him? Why should any of them work on their rotations to the corner when their leader isn't doing it himself. It's no wonder Dwight is frustrated on that end. The only other vocal leader on the team is saying one thing and doing another.

I don't care if Kobe leads the team in shots per game. That's not important to me because offensively we've been doing fine. It's defense and defensive rebounding that are killing us and Kobe's leading the path there.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby SK8 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:40 pm

ANOTHER amazing game by Mr Bryant, but this team just can't win only with Kobe, someone need to step up and help him, this was crazy game.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby XXIV on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:42 pm

I was only able to watch the game in stretches but it appears Kobe had an amazing game. If his teammates could have the half the mentality as him we wouldn't be in this mess right now.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby trodgers on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:46 pm

Third 40-point game of the season. That ties for fourth most by a player Kobe's age.

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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:51 pm

Yeah he shot 57 percent on 28 shots with just 10 freethrows for 42 points, I have nothing to complain about as far as he goes.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby BDG on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:51 pm

Kinda sad to see that Kobe's still clearly able to lead this team to a championship and we're wasting these years ...

You saw it in last year's playoffs too.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby LakerFan1235 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:52 pm

No complaints except defensive ball watching.
Every time I begin to ask, "Is he really as great as I think he is?" ...He proves that he is.
Every time I begin to wonder...He proves it...That is why I won't lose hope in him.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby Ariza3 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:58 pm

other than watching the ball a few times he played well. this game came down to a lack of first half effort, team defense, and not hitting shots they should.

a lot of mistakes by duhon and Meeks guarding kyrie. guess they didn't pay attention to the film review.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby The Rock on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:47 pm

http://sulia.com/jasonlloydabj/f/7a615620-9907-4504-98c4-6743ad5db368/?source=twitter&guid=7a615620-9907-4504-98c4-6743ad5db368

"This is the most challenging stretch I’ve had during my 17 years. It’s baffling," Bryant said. "It’s extremely frustrating. We just really have to correct the issues. We can be two completely different teams in both halves. It’s like Jeckyll and Hyde. I don’t know if we’re too old, and it takes us too long to get started or what. I don’t know, I don’t know. It’s hard for me to put my finger on it."

As for Irving, Bryant has certainly walked away impressed.

"Defensively, I tried to take a stand," Bryant said. "But he’s a fantastic player. Fantastic."
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: 30K

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:52 pm

KB24 wrote:I love Kobe unconditionally.

I have criticized him in the past when he was too stubborn or just didn't meet the admittedly very high standard we have gotten used to. It will be a major blow to me when he retires. I really really really have a hard time preparing myself. its been almost 20 years...its kind of on my schedule to get "entertained" by Kobe Bryant. I have grown accustomed to the clutch shots, the tough shots, the scoring sprees etc.

How can any Laker replace that for me? I really am more sad because I'm not confident any player will ever again be this good, this fun to watch...I love the swag, the look, the mentality, the game, the tricks etc......

We could and will of course at some point end up with other great players but will they be like Kobe? very unlikely. He is old school, he has it all. I'm used to trash talk to other fans and friends...with Kobe have the confidence and in every game there is hope....you are down 20 and Kobe could score 30 in a row. You need a 3 with 1 second, Kobe can deliver that. That ultimate confidence will be gone.


You trying to make us cry bro :man3: cause I nearly did :man10:
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