Kobe Discussion: Clash of the Titus! (671)

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

Jellincon wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Ask yourself why the team looks so much like a real team without Kobe. Same situation in 09-10 when Kobe missed time. There is so much energy, hustle, ball movement, comraderie, etc. It just feels right. Do u not get that sense? All i want from Kobe is to play team ball, something he seldom did this year and that hurts the team. The Kobe that makes this team most dangerous is the one who picks his spots and not dominate the ball. I want what's best for the team. Lebron and Durant pick their spots. They seldom try to do it themselves.

Have you not been paying attention? Kobe has seldom strayed away from team ball since that team meeting 2 months ago. Did you somehow conveniently forget Kobe going into to facilitator mode to spark our current run into the playoffs? Should one game (the ATL game) in which Kobe strayed away from the team concept negate about 2 months of excellent facilitating balanced with scoring which has put is in playoff position? Seriously ask yourself these questions because it seems as if you've ignored a lot of what has transpired to get us the 8th seed.

Kobe was facilitator leading up to the all star break but he did score a lot more after it. Look up the numbers. It doesn't matter if u win some games with him scoring 40. The point is to play basketball the right way because once Kobe starts missing those shots, what u have is a team with no flow and identity. And so many of our wins have beeb razor close and we had to come from behind many times. Hardly great basketball.

Kobe's scoring has increased after the break because he figured out how to balance scoring and facilitator mode effectively. Since the break he's averaged 30 pts and 7 ast on 49 FG%. And it's not like every time he has a high scoring game it's a result of ignoring teammates. Did you already forget that just last week he had those historic 2 straight games of 40 pts and 12 ast?

here we go again
Blame and Flame on

Complaining about Kobe's lack of balance then points at Durant... I don't get it...

Unbelievable.

Kobe "playing the right way" is something that is said a bunch of times. However, every time one ask what that means there is a bunch of nonsense spewed. It is amazing the lack of understanding some people have for the game of basketball. LOL. Players actually hit shots and its because Kobe isn't playing. Players miss shots its because Kobe isn't playing. Players play with no energy its because Kobe is playing ISO ball. Players play with energy its is inspite of Kobe playing ISO ball. Kobe gets 7 assist but shoots 20 times he is being selfish. Dwight gets zero assist but shoots 20 times Kobe is deferring to much. Some people need to stop reading the experts at ESPN because some of the stuff that is being spewed right now even Hollinger and Sheriden would be laughing.

Lol, wow...

What is really amazing is that some posters hate on Kobe so much that they can't even enjoy a win when he doesn't play. That is remarkable.

noobiew wrote:Okay, Lakers 2-0 without Kobe Imao

Hope Nash will show up in Phoenix. 3-0 baby !!

Guess since this time he cannot (or can he?) be blamed for Dwight's 6 FGA, we are back to the tiny more general "not playing the right way"

I hope Kobe rests a few games, we will need him as near 100% as possible come playoff time...

puffyusaf#2 wrote:What is really amazing is that some posters hate on Kobe so much that they can't even enjoy a win when he doesn't play. That is remarkable.

Just ignore them already, they're nothing more than well disguised trolls. I could symphatize with some of their views earlier in the season, but it was soooo predictable that the hate would come now again as soon as the Lakers got some wins with Kobe out of the lineup. How can people not understand that when a team that has a ball dominant player like Kobe out of the lineup, then the role players will usually raise their game and cheerish the opportunity. It is only normal, we used to see it with the Chicago Bulls as well all the time (MJ shot even more than Kobe). This positive effect usually only last for like 3-4 games though, and as the pressure and responsibilites of playing without you number 1 option starts taking it's toll, those wins will soon turn into losses.

It should be said though that our team is much better equipped to handle this type of diversity, as we have several players that used to be the #1 option in the past in Howard, Nash and Jamision. As long as the team keeps playing well without him, Kobe should take his time with coming back. We need him healthy and ready to go full throttle in the playoffs.

strategos wrote:Guess since this time he cannot (or can he?) be blamed for Dwight's 6 FGA, we are back to the tiny more general "not playing the right way"

I hope Kobe rests a few games, we will need him as near 100% as possible come playoff time...

You just know that it would have been Kobe's fault that Howard didn' receive touches, if he had played. That would have added another two pages of haters posting their ususal misconceptions about Kobe and the Lakers in general. It really is silly, isn't it?

Any chance Kobe plays

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Any chance Kobe plays

I hope he doesn't

The gang should be able to handle PHX without Kobe. I like the team getting more confidence without Kobe too, since they will need it for times when Kobe is resting in the POs or is having an off-night. The more Kobe sees them doing well will also increase his confidence that they can hit shots too.

Weezy wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Weezy,

Show me where i said this team is better without Kobe. That would be ludicrous. A Kobe that plays the right way is far better than a team without Kobe. But if we are talking about the Kobe that plays selfish ball, it's a toss up. Yeah, we will need Kobe in the playoffs when buckets are harder to come by. But i disagree that this team has been looking great prior to his injury. I saw a team barely winning games and having to come back a lot of times. A team relying way too much on Kobe with little flow or identity. If Kobe had been less effective, we would've lost more games.

Playing " the right way" and "selfish" are your opinions though, I don't even know your criteria for each. We've been very injured this season though and Kobe has had to carry us a ton, but we're finally getting healthy and gelling, with Kobe and now without. It's great to see, I don't care how we win as long as we win though, if we win with Kobe not playing the "right way" oh well, we still win.

It's not hard to see whether a shot is within the flow of the offense or at the expense of the offense. In theory, the goal should be to try to get the highest pct shot possible with every offensive possession. And you do that by ball movement and body movement. The Spurs are the best at doing his IMO. They play the best team ball in basketball. They pass it and pass it until the best shot is there. They break down a defense until they find a weak point. That's why a less disciplined team like the Clippers got completely blown out by the Spurs last year because they simply couldn't match SA's discipline and team play.

It really doesn't take a genius to see that Kobe's play, even though spectacularly efficient at times, have been at the expense of the offense and not within the flow of the offense. When the ball gets to him, the ball movement stops because he's so dead set on taking his shot and not looking to get others involved. It doesn't matter if the shot goes in. What he's costing the team at times is the chance for the rest of his teammates and the offense from getting into a rhythm. So while he's getting his and being efficient, the rest of the team suffers to some extent.

And let me clarify, Kobe is having an amazing individual season but as you can see, the team success hasn't been there. You can throw out whatever excuse you want but Kobe has been by far the most prodigious shot taker when i think he should've been more of a facilitator considering our talent.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

Weezy wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Weezy,

Show me where i said this team is better without Kobe. That would be ludicrous. A Kobe that plays the right way is far better than a team without Kobe. But if we are talking about the Kobe that plays selfish ball, it's a toss up. Yeah, we will need Kobe in the playoffs when buckets are harder to come by. But i disagree that this team has been looking great prior to his injury. I saw a team barely winning games and having to come back a lot of times. A team relying way too much on Kobe with little flow or identity. If Kobe had been less effective, we would've lost more games.

Playing " the right way" and "selfish" are your opinions though, I don't even know your criteria for each. We've been very injured this season though and Kobe has had to carry us a ton, but we're finally getting healthy and gelling, with Kobe and now without. It's great to see, I don't care how we win as long as we win though, if we win with Kobe not playing the "right way" oh well, we still win.

It's not hard to see whether a shot is within the flow of the offense or at the expense of the offense. In theory, the goal should be to try to get the highest pct shot possible with every offensive possession. And you do that by ball movement and body movement. The Spurs are the best at doing his IMO. They play the best team ball in basketball. They pass it and pass it until the best shot is there. They break down a defense until they find a weak point. That's why a less disciplined team like the Clippers got completely blown out by the Spurs last year because they simply couldn't match SA's discipline and team play.

It really doesn't take a genius to see that Kobe's play, even though spectacularly efficient at times, have been at the expense of the offense and not within the flow of the offense. When the ball gets to him, the ball movement stops because he's so dead set on taking his shot and not looking to get others involved. It doesn't matter if the shot goes in. What he's costing the team at times is the chance for the rest of his teammates and the offense from getting into a rhythm. So while he's getting his and being efficient, the rest of the team suffers to some extent.

And let me clarify, Kobe is having an amazing individual season but as you can see, the team success hasn't been there. You can throw out whatever excuse you want but Kobe has been by far the most prodigious shot taker when i think he should've been more of a facilitator considering our talent.

Just stop. Please. You have been going at it all season long, seriously.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Kobe is having an amazing individual season but as you can see, the team success hasn't been there.

Dwight Howard - Back surgery, torn labrum
Steve Nash - fractured leg
Pau Gasol - Concussion, knee tendonitis, torn plantar fascia
Steve Blake - Foot puncture
Jordan Hill - Out for the season
MWP - nagging injury for 2 months
Kobe - Sprained ankle

New coach, new system, no training camp

Owner died

Teammates playing together for the first time with role adjustments

Just what in the hell are you watching that you can pin the team's lack of success on Kobe?

Just ridiculous how a player that will go down contending for the GOAT nametag gets crapped on by inconsiderate fans that fail to see the difference between perception and reality. You want to blame Kobe fine, but by failing to see or acknowledge the other hundred variables that have gone into this season that take precedence over anything "bad" Kobe has done this season in your eyes is just plain ignorance.

Talking about Kobe like he is Allen Iverson, bringing up the Spurs like we haven't won more rings than them in the Kobe era, talking about Durant like he is a playmaker for others in an effort to bring down Kobe.

We don't win a damn thing regardless of any way Kobe is "supposed" to play.

Lets Go and 1year
Stop watching the Lakers until Kobe is no longer on the team. Problem solved since it causes you so much grief. Go on line and find some grainy DVDs of the 90's to buy. Those were "fun" teams to watch and I don't recall anyone constantly getting accused of shooting too much or disrupting their offense. They didn't win jack but apparently you would be happier. Leave us alone.

Doc Brown wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Kobe is having an amazing individual season but as you can see, the team success hasn't been there.

Dwight Howard - Back surgery, torn labrum
Steve Nash - fractured leg
Pau Gasol - Concussion, knee tendonitis, torn plantar fascia
Steve Blake - Foot puncture
Jordan Hill - Out for the season
MWP - nagging injury for 2 months
Kobe - Sprained ankle

New coach, new system, no training camp

Owner died

Teammates playing together for the first time with role adjustments

Just what in the hell are you watching that you can pin the team's lack of success on Kobe?

Just ridiculous how a player that will go down contending for the GOAT nametag gets crapped on by inconsiderate fans that fail to see the difference between perception and reality. You want to blame Kobe fine, but by failing to see or acknowledge the other hundred variables that have gone into this season that take precedence over anything "bad" Kobe has done this season in your eyes is just plain ignorance.

Talking about Kobe like he is Allen Iverson, bringing up the Spurs like we haven't won more rings than them in the Kobe era, talking about Durant like he is a playmaker for others in an effort to bring down Kobe.

We don't win a damn thing regardless of any way Kobe is "supposed" to play.

Bravo. Now let's ignore these guys, they really don't deserve all the attention they are getting with their constant trolling. Let us all rally around our team and hope for some success in the Playoffs!

Doc Brown wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Kobe is having an amazing individual season but as you can see, the team success hasn't been there.

Dwight Howard - Back surgery, torn labrum
Steve Nash - fractured leg
Pau Gasol - Concussion, knee tendonitis, torn plantar fascia
Steve Blake - Foot puncture
Jordan Hill - Out for the season
MWP - nagging injury for 2 months
Kobe - Sprained ankle

New coach, new system, no training camp

Owner died

Teammates playing together for the first time with role adjustments

Just what in the hell are you watching that you can pin the team's lack of success on Kobe?

Just ridiculous how a player that will go down contending for the GOAT nametag gets crapped on by inconsiderate fans that fail to see the difference between perception and reality. You want to blame Kobe fine, but by failing to see or acknowledge the other hundred variables that have gone into this season that take precedence over anything "bad" Kobe has done this season in your eyes is just plain ignorance.

Talking about Kobe like he is Allen Iverson, bringing up the Spurs like we haven't won more rings than them in the Kobe era, talking about Durant like he is a playmaker for others in an effort to bring down Kobe.

We don't win a damn thing regardless of any way Kobe is "supposed" to play.

Show me where i said i am blaming everything on Kobe?

And last i checked, even when the big 4 were together, we sucked pretty badly. With Kobe taking way too many shots than needed. Sometimes shooting more than Howard, Nash and Gasol combined. That's just not how to play the game.

Ignore me all you want but what i said holds substance. Look at 09-10 when Kobe missed 5 games. We went 4-1, dominating Utah and Portland at their place and beating the Spurs and Warriors and barely losing by 1 point to the Celtics.

And then fast forward to this year, we are 2-0 so far without Kobe and everyone seems to be playing much better team ball. And we will win in Phoenix tonight.

And look at when our team was most dangerous this year, when Kobe decided to facilitate and just take what the defense gave him. In other words, play team ball versus playing hero ball.

All the evidence simply points to what i've been saying. This team is much more dangerous when Kobe plays team ball. Him chucking up 25 shots a game doesn't help out this team in the long run. Kobe always seems to get it come playoff time and plays within the offense and that's the only reason we won in 09 and 10. And i'm sure he'll come around again come playoff time but it would just be nice to see him do it all season long.

Have you tried twitter with Kobe to clue him in? All you are trying to do here is win your tediously repetitive point of view with enormous odds for rational reasons against that happening. Besides even if we all agreed, how do you expect us to convince Kobe?

I've said it once, and I'll said it again, I don't think I have ever seen another team who's franchise player has been so criticized, dissected and underappreciated than I have with the Lakers. I remember that article about when the Lakers won the title how some fans at the parade will be cheering and others wouldn't. I can't find it anywhere maybe that's a good thing though.

Guys seriously. If you ignore the comments, they tend to fade away.

^I suppose a significant portion of the people using up their entire energy trying to discredit Kobe on this forum are not Lakers fans but just people who are bored and enjoy pissing Lakers fans off. We had a few members as well who bragged about trolling another franchise's boards.

Maybe it's like the upgraded version of our Doomsday Thread - you get to not only lagh at other fans' misery, but also add to the fire "at source".

Oh and I apologize for the off-topic

I think ALL of us at times our heads with the 1 or 2 too many (you know they're inevitable) "heat checks" until he's convinced. And yes at the random spottings of "Bad Kobe" and "hero ball" in games to this day. BUT the fact remains most of us realize the good from this TOP 5 player in the history of the league being in the Lakers lineup for 17 years and counting FAR outweighs the "random" non-conducive to "team ball" moments.

The fierce pursuit of championships and determination to be out there every single game giving it every last ounce he has, no matter whether having injuries that should have put him on the DL for periods of time or not...... earns him that level of tolerance and huge respect from us.