Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby JGC on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 am

Weezy wrote:I can, I already said it, when you're surrounded by Sacre,Duhon and guys like that. When you're surrounded by Kwame, Luke, and Smush. These are times I'd rather Kobe keep shooting and take my chances than watch Sacre with the ball and know the outcome beforehand. That is how Kobe is, for better or worse, you'd think we'd be used to it by now. I have said repeatedly that I want Nash having the ball way more, controlling the offense more, shooting more, but for whatever reason he isn't and hasn't. But again this is all offense, I still believe defense is our main problem. Right after I made that post above I immediately regretted it honestly though, because I don't even know why I'm arguing this. I don't mean that as in why am I wasting my time when I know I'm right or some arrogant way, because I think both sides make valid points. I just mean I'm so tired of arguing about this team right now, we suck so bad as a team right now, arguing shot totals and such seems so unimportant, I just want wins. I don't care who's fault it is we're losing I just want it to stop, I don't have the energy to argue Kobe and how much he shot anymore, it's all draining and a downer in what was supposed to be a great season.


I still don't think that when you're surrounded by the guys you mentioned, that the best strategy is to NOT play as a team.

I mean, the Raptors (and other teams we have played) have some real nobodies on their team but they played a great team game and that's how they beat us. I mean, no one shot more than 15 times. We had one player who nearly took more shots than all of his fellow starters COMBINED.

It's just so clear that we need to figure out how to play as a TEAM, that it just puzzles me that we continue to resort to strategies that don't accomplish anything positive. At least do something that either generates wins, or generates team cohesion. Why would we ever want to do anything that does neither? Ugh.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby thkthebest on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:00 am

JGC wrote:So that makes total sense then to what I've been observing in the games. That we score sufficiently, but the efficiency with which we score is not at the same level. Where does one find team points per possession? I'd like to look this up myself.

I think efficiency is so important because it speaks to sustainability. An efficient system can continue to produce, but an inefficient system is more susceptible to breaking down.

revgen has already mentioned points per possession. We're 6th in the league.

Offensive efficiency: http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats
Offensive rating: http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _2013.html
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby Weezy on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:03 am

Well going off team play or the "script" is on Kobe AND 'Antoni. 'Antoni needs to man up and reel Kobe in if and when he's shooting too much, instead of wanting to be his buddy. Or not put entire terrible offensive lineups out there. The raptors have no-names, but being a no-name doesn't mean you suck on offense automatically, they ran plays to attack our weaknesses, we didn't/don't do that (yet still put up 103, I'm still saying our problem is D), and to me that starts with the coach.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby JGC on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:07 am

thkthebest wrote:
JGC wrote:So that makes total sense then to what I've been observing in the games. That we score sufficiently, but the efficiency with which we score is not at the same level. Where does one find team points per possession? I'd like to look this up myself.

I think efficiency is so important because it speaks to sustainability. An efficient system can continue to produce, but an inefficient system is more susceptible to breaking down.

revgen has already mentioned points per possession. We're 6th in the league.

Offensive efficiency: http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats
Offensive rating: http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _2013.html


If the Lakers had 100 possessions, a total of 0 assists, and Kobe scored all 103 points for the team, the Lakers "Offensive Efficiency" in the link you provided would be 103.

If the Lakers had 100 possessions, a total of 30 assists, and multiple players in double figures, for a total of 103 points for the team, the Lakers "Offensive Efficiency" in the link you provided would also be 103.

Do you honestly believe those are identical from an offensive efficiency standpoint? I mean, the label says efficiency but that doesn't mean it IS efficiency. It could have said goose liver, but that wouldn't make it not words on a page. Know what I mean?
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby havoc33 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:08 am

No doubt, defense is our main issue. Guys are ball watching (Kobe is the main culprit of this, but not the only one yesterday), not getting back, not boxing out (Pau was horrid yesterday) and not helping.. no way can we win consistently with such a defensive performance. Stu Lantz was going nuts yesterday, that was as exasperated I've ever heard him during a broadcast, and it was mainly due to our horrid defensive lapses. I remember an especially bad play, where he called out Kobe: "If you're not gonna watch your guy, at least watch the ball". Needless to say, Kobe was in no mans land doing NOTHING on that play and the result was a layup for the Raptors. Too many easy buckets all around.

And on offense, Kobe needs to be smarter. I don't understand with Dwight out, that he did not go to the block more often. At least here he will be in a position where he can do something constructive while holding the ball. From here he can survey the floor, consider his options, and if he's not doubled, he will most likely get off a high percentage shot. Seriously, I cringe every time Nash gives up the ball to Kobe outside the threepoint line with 15 SECONDS LEFT. And then holding the ball for another 8 seconds here will give you NOTHING. Your teammates become stagnant, and the other team is allowed to set up their defense. Go to the god damn block if you don't want to move the ball, at least here you can create opportunities for your team.

Then again, if his legs are dead, that jumpshot will become very tempting. I knew that having Kobe guarding opposing PG’s would come back to haunt us though. He is simply too old to maintain the energy needed throughout the season, especially with Antoni playing him mad minutes right now. Expect more 9-26 shooting nights if this strategy is going to continue. Surely, someone in the coaching staff could make a tape of Kobe’s defensive lapses while roaming, show it to him and have him improve his off the ball defence? We’d be a much better team as a whole with him off the ball defensively, IF he somehow managed to stay a bit more sharp.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:50 am

Kobe's tired, his quest for the scoring title is killing him...more than 30 shots again..
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby kosstick on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:15 am

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Kobe's tired, his quest for the scoring title is killing him...more than 30 shots again..



He is not going for the scoring title. If he was he would have played the last game of last season.....


In other news
After Sunday's loss to the Toronto Raptors, the Los Angeles Lakers fell to 17-23, three games out of the eighth seed in the Western Conference. The season has been a colossal disappointment so far, and Kobe Bryant was willing to shoulder the blame not only for Sunday's defeat, but also for the entire season.

"That's on me," Bryant said. "I'll take this loss on me, gladly. It was a lot of easy shots -- a lot of them -- that I should put down. I will, I will. That's just on me.

"Everybody wants to know what's the reason, whose fault it is and this, that and the other. I just made it more easy. You should just point the finger at me. Let me take all that. This way, we won't have to worry about that as a team. It's part of my responsibility. I'll take [the criticism] and we can just focus on what we do best, which is playing together and trying to figure out how to get out of this losing."

Even so, Bryant indirectly brought Lakers management in the discussion.

"Unless they're going to do something roster-wise, I got to continue to push through it," Bryant said. "If this is what we're rolling with, then I can't make excuses. I got to go out there and do my job."


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... ing_Season
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby karacha on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:21 am

Obviously, the roster is not balanced and he took a shot. Yes, maybe he was not the best leader this season, who knows... but the roster is not balanced and we have zero chemistry. Need quality youth and energy. We need some joy on the court. Dwight OK, but we need more than that. Not Gasol, not Jamison, and not Morris.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby kosstick on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:31 am

karacha wrote:Obviously, the roster is not balanced and he took a shot. Yes, maybe he was not the best leader this season, who knows... but the roster is not balanced and we have zero chemistry. Need quality youth and energy. We need some joy on the court. Dwight OK, but we need more than that. Not Gasol, not Jamison, and not Morris.



I like that shot, the sooner Kobe is ok with PAU getting shipped the easier itll be.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:44 am

kosstick wrote:
karacha wrote:Obviously, the roster is not balanced and he took a shot. Yes, maybe he was not the best leader this season, who knows... but the roster is not balanced and we have zero chemistry. Need quality youth and energy. We need some joy on the court. Dwight OK, but we need more than that. Not Gasol, not Jamison, and not Morris.



I like that shot, the sooner Kobe is ok with PAU getting shipped the easier itll be.


while I agree this team isn't balance, kobe should be the last to be taking shots when he was the one talking and puffing his chest to the rest of his olympic teammates bout how great this team was going to be.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby LakerFanIam on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:30 am

Kobe shooting 33% from the field over the last 3 games.... OUCH.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby revgen on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:20 pm

@kobebryant I have 2 tix for tonight's game in Chicago. Any interest? Btw they are lower bowl seats #countonkobegivingtickets


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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:03 pm

http://lakers.ocregister.com/2013/01/20 ... 103/75732/

Once upon a time, on a late January Sunday against the Toronto Raptors, Kobe Bryant single-handedly shot the Lakers up with confidence in a come-from-behind victory that saw him score 81 points.

That Lakers team had little but Bryant to get them into the playoffs.

This Lakers team has had almost nothing consistent but Bryant’s shooting.

It abandoned them, however, Sunday in another late January game against Toronto.

Bryant shot 10 for 32 from the field (31 percent), Dwight Howard was ejected just before halftime for drawing a second technical foul and the Lakers suffered their latest stunning defeat, 108-103.

“It’s on me,” Bryant said. “I can’t be missing those shots.”

Howard was ejected on a questionable double-technical ruling by referee Eli Roe, but with these Lakers it always seems to be something — Howard’s absence crippling the usually poor Lakers defense further.

And going forward, Bryant appears to be on different pages with Lakers coach Mike D’Antoni and Steve Nash about the offense.

With Nash missing most of the season with injury, he is still figuring out how to get the offense running the way he wants. He wants to refine the Lakers’ pick-and-roll execution – and stick with those sets when the team often settles back into old ways of Bryant stopping to freelance or the slow-developing post-up plays that D’Antoni calls “bully ball.”

“The ball sticks,” D’Antoni lamented Sunday.

Said Nash: “Sometimes we don’t do what we talk about and we break away. And maybe that’s because we need more time, but to me, mentally you’ve got to stick with the script. Right now I think we’re defecting from the script too many times.”

Bryant’s thought process? Very different.

He said he was “very, very happy” about Pau Gasol getting consistent post-ups Sunday: “We got a lot of easy things from him down there, so we’ll start seeing that more often.” As for his poor shooting, Bryant said he was tired and needed to get more massages, ice baths and rest. He has been asked to defend the best perimeter player on the opposing team in recent games and last game requested more set plays for him to shoot.

“This team needs me at both ends of the floor,” adding a vague reference to “unless they’re going to do something roster-wise.”


Interesting article from Kevin Ding.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:08 pm

Hey guys how about you worry about the defense instead of focusing 100% of your efforts on whether we should be running picks and rolls or post ups.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:11 pm

his legs gona fall off tonight trying to chase Rip around :man6:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby The Rock on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:31 pm

Durant shot 13/31 and got 21 free throws. James Harden 5/20 today he gets 21 free throws. Kobe cant even buy a trip to Free Throw line

Here are some recent bad shooting games from Harden and yet this mofo gets the respect and calls. For the year Harden shoots 43% from the field, well below Kobe territory and yet he gets 10 free throw attempts a game




http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563/gamelog
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:34 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Hey guys how about you worry about the defense instead of focusing 100% of your efforts on whether we should be running picks and rolls or post ups.


Running pick and rolls is "controllable"...... the defense?..... not so much..... :man10:

It's trash no matter who we put out there or how many trophies they have on the mantle. Pick and rolls are something that may get our coach to focus on..... defense... not going to happen other than having the primary scorer for the team also cover for the worst defender on the team and in the process split the fan base....

Bad year.... not much more can be said...
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:43 pm

The Rock wrote:Durant shot 13/31 and got 21 free throws. James Harden 5/20 today he gets 21 free throws. Kobe cant even buy a trip to Free Throw line

Here are some recent bad shooting games from Harden and yet this mofo gets the respect and calls. For the year Harden shoots 43% from the field, well below Kobe territory and yet he gets 10 free throw attempts a game




http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563/gamelog


I wonder if Durant/Harden were still on the same team if they could foul out half of a team or most of em :man10:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:45 pm

I bet their teammates quit on them. :man1:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:48 pm

The Rock wrote:Durant shot 13/31 and got 21 free throws. James Harden 5/20 today he gets 21 free throws. Kobe cant even buy a trip to Free Throw line

Here are some recent bad shooting games from Harden and yet this mofo gets the respect and calls. For the year Harden shoots 43% from the field, well below Kobe territory and yet he gets 10 free throw attempts a game




http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563/gamelog


Yeah but remember Kobe is Kobe, he's viewed differently lol.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby Center Court on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:47 pm

Jazzygirl205 wrote:
The Rock wrote:Durant shot 13/31 and got 21 free throws. James Harden 5/20 today he gets 21 free throws. Kobe cant even buy a trip to Free Throw line

Here are some recent bad shooting games from Harden and yet this mofo gets the respect and calls. For the year Harden shoots 43% from the field, well below Kobe territory and yet he gets 10 free throw attempts a game




http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563/gamelog


Yeah but remember Kobe is Kobe, he's viewed differently lol.


Harden is consistently attacking the basket. Durant is fouled often because his length forces defenders to over compensate. Kobe is just pulling up and shooting or doing it out of iso sets. Big difference.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:50 pm

Center Court wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:
The Rock wrote:Durant shot 13/31 and got 21 free throws. James Harden 5/20 today he gets 21 free throws. Kobe cant even buy a trip to Free Throw line

Here are some recent bad shooting games from Harden and yet this mofo gets the respect and calls. For the year Harden shoots 43% from the field, well below Kobe territory and yet he gets 10 free throw attempts a game




http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563/gamelog


Yeah but remember Kobe is Kobe, he's viewed differently lol.


Harden is consistently attacking the basket. Durant is fouled often because his length forces defenders to over compensate. Kobe is just pulling up and shooting or doing it out of iso sets. Big difference.

there's truth there but Kobe doesn't get the calls either when he gets contact, while Harden attacks the basket he initate ALL the contacts and gets the calls, I thought defenders had theirs rights to their own space to defend?
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby JGC on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:13 pm

Kobe is tied for 4th in the NBA in free throws attempted. Add to that, that 80% of his shot attempts are jump shots.

Not really sure I buy the "he doesn't get the calls" argument. When will the conspiracy theories stop?
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:33 pm

JGC wrote:Kobe is tied for 4th in the NBA in free throws attempted. Add to that, that 80% of his shot attempts are jump shots.

Not really sure I buy the "he doesn't get the calls" argument. When will the conspiracy theories stop?


the difference between 3rd and 4th is almost 2 FTs a game
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Dead legs

Postby Kit on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:49 pm

Center Court wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:
The Rock wrote:Durant shot 13/31 and got 21 free throws. James Harden 5/20 today he gets 21 free throws. Kobe cant even buy a trip to Free Throw line

Here are some recent bad shooting games from Harden and yet this mofo gets the respect and calls. For the year Harden shoots 43% from the field, well below Kobe territory and yet he gets 10 free throw attempts a game




http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563/gamelog


Yeah but remember Kobe is Kobe, he's viewed differently lol.


Harden is consistently attacking the basket. Durant is fouled often because his length forces defenders to over compensate. Kobe is just pulling up and shooting or doing it out of iso sets. Big difference.
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