Kobe Thread: Bucher- Kobe = Father of Team USA Success p.819

Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby lakerfan2 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:53 pm

unless you're a cold blooded Mamba. :thezen:
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby jbiggs on Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:05 pm

skip to 10 min mark

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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:40 am

jlkr wrote:Cannot stay very long in 48 degree water. Hypothermia happens quickly at that temp. But wow ...


Hell all these years with the after game routine in ice tubs.... no big deal to him. :man12:
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby jlkr on Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:57 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
jlkr wrote:Cannot stay very long in 48 degree water. Hypothermia happens quickly at that temp. But wow ...


Hell all these years with the after game routine in ice tubs.... no big deal to him. :man12:

No way is he putting his entire body in an ice tub after games ...

Read up about hypothermia sometime, you'd be surprised how quickly you can go under in 48 degree water. The people on the Titanic who fell into 34 degree water lost consciousness in 6 to 8 minutes and were dead in 12 to 15 minutes. That's why they're playing with ice buckets, not ice tubs. Kobe one up'd them, but note he didn't do it in actual ice cold water, he did it in water slightly warmer than ice cold. Highly doubt anyone else will follow him.

After the games, the feet go into ice buckets. Ice packs on the knees and maybe the hands and elbows.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:38 pm

Kobe Bryant, who appears on a regional cover of Sports Illustrated this week, knows the end of his basketball career is near.


“If you booed me for 18, 19 years, boo me for the 20th. That’s the game, man,” Bryant said.


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http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/19/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-sports-illustrated-cover

Picking this up later today or tomorrow for sure.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:49 pm

Actually that's false. Many athletes use ice bath therapy as a training method (Kobe, Phelps and others swear by it). I have used it before and it's becoming pretty common these days.

The ice baths are typically around 50 degrees Fahrenheit and you stay in them for about 10 to 15 minutes. Usually you drink a warm beverage and wear certain rubberized gear (mainly boots) for protection. The idea is that it cools down your body rapidly after an intense workout and the reduction in blood flow supposedly helps recovery.

I'm not completely sold on it as a training method, but it's definitely gaining popularity. Under strict supervision and instruction there's low risk for hypothermia, but still some risk.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:01 pm

:man10: Thanks realdeal. I thought I recalled some of these guys up to their necks in ice baths for short periods, especially Kobe but admittedly could have been talking out my a** and jlkr was busting my balls. Hate it when that happens! :man10: At least I'll admit it when I'm caught. :man12: More than some around here. :disagree:
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby BadCoaching on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:50 am

Took ice bathes after wrestling practice 3-4 times a week.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Savory Griddles on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:58 am

The Black Mamba one actually looks a little like Artest to me. :man3:
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby bltkmt on Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:23 am

Savory Griddles wrote:The Black Mamba one actually looks a little like Artest to me. :man3:



Yeah, the cheekbones are wrong.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:09 am

So what do you all think Kobe will look like this year?

We've heard from Byron two things: 1. Kobe will change the way he plays to adapt to his new physical limitations and 2. Kobe can play some backup PG.

Kobe himself has alluded to changing the way he plays while still being effective so that he can "shock the world".

So what does that mean? Does that mean we see the Magic Mamba like we did in 2013 when Coward was demanding the ball down low all the time? Do we see Kobe more willing to average 20 points if it means higher assist numbers? Maybe he doesn't go for the scoring title this year, but goes for some other fantastic output like 20/7/7 or something like that?

What do you guys think?
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:29 am

Over the past few years, we've seen Kobe attack the basket less and less, up until 2012 where he just found his legs again. But it wasn't because his athleticism was decreasing, it was because he wasn't getting the calls. So he adapted.

I think in a similar fashion, Kobe will look for ways to score easier, without needing to exert himself as he used to. I see him going in the post more, and utilizing a lot more screens than the iso ball he's used to. I see Byron running a lot of 1-2 pick and rolls so that he can get a mismatch against opposing guards, or 1-5 pick and rolls to open up the floor for Kobe. That being said, Kobe will also be a facilitator through the pick and rolls too. Guys like Hill/Boozer/Davis are excellent finishers in the roll, and Kobe and Lin be able to find them.

I think Kobe can still put up 20ppg, taking less shots, and getting his assists through the post, pick and roll, and Princeton offense movement. I hope he leaves the rebounding to the bigs, who are plenty capable of holding their own.

21.5ppg-8.5apg-4.3rpg for Kobe in around 34mpg.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Armani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:53 pm

Kobe will likely put up Wizards Jordan type numbers... 20 points, 5 assists, 5 bounds @ 40-45 FG%. Ideally it's closer to 45 and it doesn't take him 20 shots to get 20 points. I expect him to be good but nowhere close to 2013. His defense will probably be average. I don't imagine he suddenly starts playing great D at this stage in his career, especially since he's still carrying the load on offense.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Armani wrote:Kobe will likely put up Wizards Jordan type numbers... 20 points, 5 assists, 5 bounds @ 40-45 FG%. Ideally it's closer to 45 and it doesn't take him 20 shots to get 20 points. I expect him to be good but nowhere close to 2013. His defense will probably be average. I don't imagine he suddenly starts playing great D at this stage in his career, especially since he's still carrying the load on offense.

he'll put up more than 20 ppg, guarantee it!

I think his stat line will look like this. 25.7 ppg, 6.3 ast, 5.7 rpg. on 47 fg%
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby thkthebest on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:37 pm

If he's finally going to play "limited" minutes (28-30 mpg like Duncan has in the past several years), I hope to see something like 20 ppg, 4 apg, 4 rpg.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:59 am

Battle Tested20 wrote:
Armani wrote:Kobe will likely put up Wizards Jordan type numbers... 20 points, 5 assists, 5 bounds @ 40-45 FG%. Ideally it's closer to 45 and it doesn't take him 20 shots to get 20 points. I expect him to be good but nowhere close to 2013. His defense will probably be average. I don't imagine he suddenly starts playing great D at this stage in his career, especially since he's still carrying the load on offense.

he'll put up more than 20 ppg, guarantee it!

I think his stat line will look like this. 25.7 ppg, 6.3 ast, 5.7 rpg. on 47 fg%


19.1 ppg, 5.2 ast. 4.8 rpg. on 44%

Your stat line would require 36-40 minutes per game. I think he's going to play closer to 30.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:55 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:
Armani wrote:Kobe will likely put up Wizards Jordan type numbers... 20 points, 5 assists, 5 bounds @ 40-45 FG%. Ideally it's closer to 45 and it doesn't take him 20 shots to get 20 points. I expect him to be good but nowhere close to 2013. His defense will probably be average. I don't imagine he suddenly starts playing great D at this stage in his career, especially since he's still carrying the load on offense.

he'll put up more than 20 ppg, guarantee it!

I think his stat line will look like this. 25.7 ppg, 6.3 ast, 5.7 rpg. on 47 fg%


19.1 ppg, 5.2 ast. 4.8 rpg. on 44%

Your stat line would require 36-40 minutes per game. I think he's going to play closer to 30.


you are right about me thinking he'll play around 33-36 mpg. But even at exactly 30 mpg I think he'll be able to avg. a little more than 20 a game.

Someone help me out here because I am confused about one thing.

Everyone has said that he'll be playing less minutes than the previous 2 years. Not to mention we have already heard from Byron that Kobe will be getting the ball more where he wants it - closer to the paint in the low block to utilize his post moves and footwork.

WHY then are many members saying that he'll be shooting below his career FG% of 45%???? :man3:

I've seen posts of 44, 43, 40-45% for his FG%. The guy is going to be in his prime spots more often and likely playing less minutes. His FG% should be slightly higher this year if the two things I mentioned above hold true about his minutes being reduced and being more in the spots he likes.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:29 am

Battle Tested20 wrote:WHY then are many members saying that he'll be shooting below his career FG% of 45%???? :man3:

I've seen posts of 44, 43, 40-45% for his FG%. The guy is going to be in his prime spots more often and likely playing less minutes. His FG% should be slightly higher this year if the two things I mentioned above hold true about his minutes being reduced and being more in the spots he likes.


What's going to be in question is how aggressive Kobe will be, and how much of his legs does he have left?

Kobe's highest percentage shots come from his ability to weave into the paint and get layups dunks, that's obvious. We all want to believe that he can get back to form, but even Kobe admits he won't be the same. Will be still the same explosive first step? How quickly can he move laterally? Expect Kobe to be working in the post and taking more jumpers than in the past.

Another big question for Kobe is how much lift does he have left? A major part of Kobe's game was his ability to rise over defenders on jumpers. Kobe had it built in his game that he'll go through the usual motion of jumper without batting an eye and know he'll get his shot off no matter who the defender was or what they were doing. If he can't do that anymore, what does he go to?

If Kobe is looking to be tentative with his body, I see Kobe utilizing an Andre Miller type game of post ups and open jumpers. We all want to believe Kobe is the invincible hero we grew up with. That never backed down from anything. Never feared anything. Maybe he still plays the Mamba, or maybe now he's Kobe the human.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby therealdeal on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:35 am

I honestly think Kobe will look better physically than people are preparing themselves for, but think Jordan on the Wizards as his floor. He'll be able to get his post up jumper off because that shot really isn't about lift, it's about footwork and body positioning.

If they have Kobe in the post, he'll be able to score efficiently and effectively regardless of his ability to jump or how quick he is because his post game isn't built on athleticism at all.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:05 pm

therealdeal wrote:I honestly think Kobe will look better physically than people are preparing themselves for, but think Jordan on the Wizards as his floor. He'll be able to get his post up jumper off because that shot really isn't about lift, it's about footwork and body positioning.

If they have Kobe in the post, he'll be able to score efficiently and effectively regardless of his ability to jump or how quick he is because his post game isn't built on athleticism at all.


I actually think that will be close to his CEILING and not his floor. With the mileage on his legs, his age and the fact that he tore his Achillies (left foot, which is his plant and explode foot) and it's not hard to predict now he will look. He will look slow. I think some of you will be shocked at how slow and old he looks. This isn't hating, this is reality.

And people forget that MJ with the Wizards still had decent athleticism. MJ won his last title at the age of 35, which is rare in itself. And Wizards MJ still had some decent quickness and lift. My guess is noticeably more than the Kobe we will see. So to me, best case scenario is MJ Wizards. 20 ppg, a lot of post ups and jumpers. To me, his floor is much lower.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:09 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:
Armani wrote:Kobe will likely put up Wizards Jordan type numbers... 20 points, 5 assists, 5 bounds @ 40-45 FG%. Ideally it's closer to 45 and it doesn't take him 20 shots to get 20 points. I expect him to be good but nowhere close to 2013. His defense will probably be average. I don't imagine he suddenly starts playing great D at this stage in his career, especially since he's still carrying the load on offense.

he'll put up more than 20 ppg, guarantee it!

I think his stat line will look like this. 25.7 ppg, 6.3 ast, 5.7 rpg. on 47 fg%


LOL. If you take away the first few years when Kobe came off the bench and only count the games he has started, his career ppg is around 27 ppg. And you think THIS version of Kobe will average close to 26 ppg? Man, give me some of that Kool-Aid you are drinking.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby laakers on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:43 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I honestly think Kobe will look better physically than people are preparing themselves for, but think Jordan on the Wizards as his floor. He'll be able to get his post up jumper off because that shot really isn't about lift, it's about footwork and body positioning.

If they have Kobe in the post, he'll be able to score efficiently and effectively regardless of his ability to jump or how quick he is because his post game isn't built on athleticism at all.


I actually think that will be close to his CEILING and not his floor. With the mileage on his legs, his age and the fact that he tore his Achillies (left foot, which is his plant and explode foot) and it's not hard to predict now he will look. He will look slow. I think some of you will be shocked at how slow and old he looks. This isn't hating, this is reality.

And people forget that MJ with the Wizards still had decent athleticism. MJ won his last title at the age of 35, which is rare in itself. And Wizards MJ still had some decent quickness and lift. My guess is noticeably more than the Kobe we will see. So to me, best case scenario is MJ Wizards. 20 ppg, a lot of post ups and jumpers. To me, his floor is much lower.


What's reality? A post in an Internet forum about how Kobe will be playing months before the season even starts?? We're just trying to be optimistic over here, and in reality, rather cyberreality, you're just being a grump. I hope you're not like this in "reality". And yes, you are hating. If you're right, good for you, but remember, haters make Kobe famous.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:59 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I honestly think Kobe will look better physically than people are preparing themselves for, but think Jordan on the Wizards as his floor. He'll be able to get his post up jumper off because that shot really isn't about lift, it's about footwork and body positioning.

If they have Kobe in the post, he'll be able to score efficiently and effectively regardless of his ability to jump or how quick he is because his post game isn't built on athleticism at all.


I actually think that will be close to his CEILING and not his floor. With the mileage on his legs, his age and the fact that he tore his Achillies (left foot, which is his plant and explode foot) and it's not hard to predict now he will look. He will look slow. I think some of you will be shocked at how slow and old he looks. This isn't hating, this is reality.

And people forget that MJ with the Wizards still had decent athleticism. MJ won his last title at the age of 35, which is rare in itself. And Wizards MJ still had some decent quickness and lift. My guess is noticeably more than the Kobe we will see. So to me, best case scenario is MJ Wizards. 20 ppg, a lot of post ups and jumpers. To me, his floor is much lower.


Michael also had 3 years off. Remember, Kobe wasn't out this year because of his achilles anymore, it was his knee. He shut it down after that.

Since then, he's had nothing but time to rehab, train, and prepare. Why put such a low ceiling for someone who most Lakers fan have known to do the unexpected. Oh that's right...
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Re: Kobe Discussion: Happy with the FO effort (806)

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:30 pm

laakers wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I honestly think Kobe will look better physically than people are preparing themselves for, but think Jordan on the Wizards as his floor. He'll be able to get his post up jumper off because that shot really isn't about lift, it's about footwork and body positioning.

If they have Kobe in the post, he'll be able to score efficiently and effectively regardless of his ability to jump or how quick he is because his post game isn't built on athleticism at all.


I actually think that will be close to his CEILING and not his floor. With the mileage on his legs, his age and the fact that he tore his Achillies (left foot, which is his plant and explode foot) and it's not hard to predict now he will look. He will look slow. I think some of you will be shocked at how slow and old he looks. This isn't hating, this is reality.

And people forget that MJ with the Wizards still had decent athleticism. MJ won his last title at the age of 35, which is rare in itself. And Wizards MJ still had some decent quickness and lift. My guess is noticeably more than the Kobe we will see. So to me, best case scenario is MJ Wizards. 20 ppg, a lot of post ups and jumpers. To me, his floor is much lower.


What's reality? A post in an Internet forum about how Kobe will be playing months before the season even starts?? We're just trying to be optimistic over here, and in reality, rather cyberreality, you're just being a grump. I hope you're not like this in "reality". And yes, you are hating. If you're right, good for you, but remember, haters make Kobe famous.


Kobe is 36, has unbelievable mileage on his legs and is coming off of two series leg injuries, one of which (Achilies) is the killer of robbing an athlete of their explosion. And the injury occurred on his left foot, which means it's the foot he plants and explodes off of. These are the facts and irrefutable. How am I hating? I'm just being realistic here.

Yes, I expect Kobe to play with great skills and IQ and regularly make plays that amaze us. But what he doesn't bring in transition (he is a wing player) and on the defensive end, he will be hard to watch sometimes.
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