Kobe Discussion: Clash of the Titus! (671)

Borri,

I saw every play tonight. And he was off the charts good on both ends. But i'm not focusing on this one game but looking at the big picture. What happens when Kobe stops making these incredibly difficult shots? When his play comes down to Earth? What is our offensive identity?

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

revgen wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:You people are still not looking at the big picture. Yes, Kobe was incredible tonight on both ends. Without him, we lose by 20. But right now, Kobe is simply not looking to get others involved. Ok, once in a while, like his good pass to Nash. But my point is, what happens when he stops making his high degree of difficulty shots? What do we fall back on? What is our identity? So far, we don't have one. It just looks like Kobe has a single minded approach that he's going to score at all costs. And basketball just doesn't work that way. You don't win championships that way. You can be a good team but a great team will beat any individual talent. Maybe i'm being too harsh but that's the vibe i get from Kobe. Score first, get others involved second. Now bash away.

That's not Kobe's job. That's Nash and Pau's job.

Kobe is no longer playing the MJ/Pippen role anymore. He doesn't facilitate or distribute.

If you don't like Kobe shooting so much, then you should be blaming them. Not Kobe.

Lol. Kobe doesn't give his teammates a chance to shoot because he dominates the ball. That's my point. I don't have a problem with him taking 30 shots if it's within the flow of the offense but there are just too many possessions where he's so single minded and doesn't even look to pass and in the long run, that simply doesn't work.

/facepalm

I'll just quote Borri's post

borri wrote:
Did you even watch the damn game? If you are, what are you looking at? Kobe took THREE shots in the first quarter. THREE. Sat out 4 minutes of the second. He shot us back in the game to get us back to 10.

Makes 2-3 to start the 3rd. Stops shooting for 4 possessions. Our guys miss, CLIPS got from 3 up to 12 up.

I give up trying to explain things to these people. Their bias against Kobe has completely blinded them to any reason of logic.

Seriously dude, if you'd watch the game you wouldn't be making this ABSURD statement. Wow. Just. Wow.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Borri,

I saw every play tonight. And he was off the charts good on both ends. But i'm not focusing on this one game but looking at the big picture. What happens when Kobe stops making these incredibly difficult shots? When his play comes down to Earth? What is our offensive identity?

ummm, steve nash is the point guard. Shouldn't you be in the steve nash thread asking this question? And again, kobe is averaging 4.8 apg. Kobe has averaged around 5 his entire career, and oh wait, he has 5 championships. Nothing has changed with kobe. And its even more ludicrous that you want him to be more of a passer than he's ever been before, playing alongside one of the greatest point guards in nba history. I'm sorry, but you just have no basketball knowledge. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

I'm convinced. Kobe haters don't have any basis behind their critiques of kobe. As long as he's losing, they find ways to hate on him whether he plays good or bad. Such a shame...

King of Clutch wrote:You are clearly an idiot with no basketball knowledge.

This thread:

http://www.clublakers.com/site-rules/clublakers-policies-and-procedures-t6351.html

Rule #2. Please read it.

King of Clutch wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Borri,

I saw every play tonight. And he was off the charts good on both ends. But i'm not focusing on this one game but looking at the big picture. What happens when Kobe stops making these incredibly difficult shots? When his play comes down to Earth? What is our offensive identity?

ummm, steve nash is the point guard. Shouldn't you be in the steve nash thread asking this question? And again, kobe is averaging 4.8 apg. Kobe has averaged around 5 his entire career, and oh wait, he has 5 championships. Nothing has changed with kobe. And its even more ludicrous that you want him to be more of a passer than he's ever been before, playing alongside one of the greatest point guards in nba history. I'm sorry, but you just have no basketball knowledge. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Nash is the pg who seldom has the ball in his hands and simply defers to Kobe and watches him work. If you can't see that, i don't know what else to say. And no, Kobe was much more of a facilitator during our championship years. He didn't dominate the ball this much.

i can only hope that kobe will be a player that is only truly recognized by the media for his greatness once he retires (since he damn sure isnt being recognized for it now)...but i somehow feel that even then he will not get his props. people who didnt see him will look back at this time and unfortunately look at lebron and durant among others and not understand the true skill kobe had. kobe will be lost to time im afraid

So it's Kobe's fault for demanding the ball from a Hall of Fame PG and the Hall of Fame PG giving him the ball whenever he wants it?

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Borri,

I saw every play tonight. And he was off the charts good on both ends. But i'm not focusing on this one game but looking at the big picture. What happens when Kobe stops making these incredibly difficult shots? When his play comes down to Earth? What is our offensive identity?

Simple. Guys have got to make shots. When guys make shots, Kobe doesn't have to play hero to get us a win. When guys make shots, it's easier to move the ball. Defenders have bite on every ball movement. When you lay bricks, that defender ain't gonna be biting on squat. They'll just play off you, dare you to make a shot.

People keep harping on ball movement like its the holy grail. But it's not. The point of ball movement is to create open looks. We have been getting ALOT of good open looks. Guys aren't consistently making them. Which leads to less ball movement because defenders aren't biting on the pass. You understand what I am trying to say.?

It has always been this way with Kobe. YEs there are games when Kobe plays STUPID, the WAS game, the GS game and others in the past. If the team plays well offensively Kobe will defer. When they stink, he goes heroball. And we shouldn't have a problem with that.

These are grown men. Don't need Kobe coddling them like babies to get them to make shots or play defense.

Our offense obviously will look alot better if guys are making shots. See....POR game. When we don't make shots, our offense.....ANY offense for that matter will look like quicksand.

jbiggs wrote:i can only hope that kobe will be a player that is only truly recognized by the media for his greatness once he retires (since he damn sure isnt being recognized for it now)...but i somehow feel that even then he will not get his props. people who didnt see him will look back at this time and unfortunately look at lebron and durant among others and not understand the true skill kobe had. kobe will be lost to time im afraid

Not a chance. Anyone who knows basketball knows that Kobe is a top 10 all time great and right up there with MJ as the greatest scorer ever. He will be remembered forever. Prime for prime, Kobe might've even had a slight edge on MJ as a better scorer.

Doc Brown wrote:So it's Kobe's fault for demanding the ball from a Hall of Fame PG and the Hall of Fame PG giving him the ball whenever he wants it?

It's also Kobe's fault that his teammates can't make open shots. It's Kobe's fault the world ended on Dec.21 2012 too.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Borri,

I saw every play tonight. And he was off the charts good on both ends. But i'm not focusing on this one game but looking at the big picture. What happens when Kobe stops making these incredibly difficult shots? When his play comes down to Earth? What is our offensive identity?

ummm, steve nash is the point guard. Shouldn't you be in the steve nash thread asking this question? And again, kobe is averaging 4.8 apg. Kobe has averaged around 5 his entire career, and oh wait, he has 5 championships. Nothing has changed with kobe. And its even more ludicrous that you want him to be more of a passer than he's ever been before, playing alongside one of the greatest point guards in nba history. I'm sorry, but you just have no basketball knowledge. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Nash is the pg who seldom has the ball in his hands and simply defers to Kobe and watches him work. If you can't see that, i don't know what else to say. And no, Kobe was much more of a facilitator during our championship years. He didn't dominate the ball this much.

You sure? Then where did the "ball hog" thingy come from? I can't see a facilitator recieving such dreadful title.

well if anyone wanted to label me for being a "Kobe critiques" so be it...just keep in mind I have never once said Kobe is to blame..I just question his shot selection at times during this season because it stops the ball and we end up with a terrible shot..but this game..he got his points very easily, and effectively..and that's something I do not mind. When he has it going I seriously don't mind him going hero ball..but when he's missing fallaways consecutively I really wish he let Nash run the show.

Everything aside..Kobe played a great game tonight. Really wish Nash would be more agressive and Pau to find his manhood..and Metta was terrible.

Is this thread for real? At this point Kobe will be better than some of our players even if he goes 8-40.

Borri,

I see your points. It's a delicate balance between selfish and not selfish. As a basketball purist myself who appreciates the game, i just like team basketball. A team that plays unselfish and smart basketball almost always beats a team with a bunch of selfish players who can't play within a team concept. But i don't want to rain on Kobe's parade tonight. The guy was simply amazing tonight. I'll leave it at that.

Lets see...Nash for most of his Phoenix days shot above 50% , got double digit assist, which means he passed the ball well AND shot well from the floor and still couldn't get out of hte West...and he joined the selfish guy with 5 rings to chase a ring. Yea Kobe's strategy is broken and doesnt work

“@CP3: Sittin here watching the game from 2nite on my ipad n lil Chris says "Daddy, lemme see when Kobe dunked on you" #ForgetYouChris #HeGotMe lol”

“@Matt_Barnes22: The car ride home with the twins was classic.. Isaiah told me daddy, "Kobe did this to you" & made a crossover ... http://t.co/n6yB04P1”

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Borri,

I see your points. It's a delicate balance between selfish and not selfish. As a basketball purist myself who appreciates the game, i just like team basketball. A team that plays unselfish and smart basketball almost always beats a team with a bunch of selfish players who can't play within a team concept. But i don't want to rain on Kobe's parade tonight. The guy was simply amazing tonight. I'll leave it at that.

Unselfish basketball only works when guys are making shots. If you have one guy shooting over 50% and the rest under 40%....who do you want to shoot the ball. Keep passing it around and hope guys will find their stroke is fine in THEORY. But in reality, it often doesn't go as planned. Ride the hot hand.

And if you shot isn't falling...it shouldn't preclude you from rebounding and playing defense. And this is my biggest criticism of Kobe this year, just because you're hot doesn't preclude you from playing defense either.

you know what. i am one of the biggest kobe fans and sometimes i overreact when people say bad things over him. but i have to say it s a shame how much of so called fans here on cl blame kobe for almost everything what goes wrong if it was last year or this year so far.only one thing if kobe did these bad plays that meeks did both on fastbreak oppurturnities they would v e been killed kobe for it . calling him selfish and ballhog. but in fact it was meeks no one looses a word how dumb and selfish these two plays really were both times it could ve been easy oppurturnities to score for lakers the 1st one an easy dunk or layup for kobe if meeks gave him the ball and the second one also a easy score for the lakers. kobe showed up tonight but what did all the others ? ok nash and d12 and also hill did ok but all other played garbage. espicially sorry for it gasol . tonight you could call him again gasoft got abused by griffin

Borri,

Again, i agree with your basic premise. But Kobe has been hot the whole year. Does that mean we should let him do his thing while everyone stands and watches? I mean i get what you're saying. Some guy has the hot hand in a game and you ride him out. But Kobe is so effective right now that i feel like the team is riding him way too much and Kobe is perfectly fine with it given his own ego and that's just not going to lead to championships.

Let me ask you this. Do u think Kobe's play in terms of getting others involved and facilitating is the same from his two peat years to now?

Oh well . . .

Kobe Bryant wrote:Thoughts of self doubt Am I done? Is this how my career will end?? I REFUSE to give in to these thoughts. #strongwill #countonchallenges

https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/287468448076951552

the end is nigh

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

jbiggs wrote:i can only hope that kobe will be a player that is only truly recognized by the media for his greatness once he retires (since he damn sure isnt being recognized for it now)...but i somehow feel that even then he will not get his props. people who didnt see him will look back at this time and unfortunately look at lebron and durant among others and not understand the true skill kobe had. kobe will be lost to time im afraid

Not a chance. Anyone who knows basketball knows that Kobe is a top 10 all time great and right up there with MJ as the greatest scorer ever. He will be remembered forever. Prime for prime, Kobe might've even had a slight edge on MJ as a better scorer.

i sure hope so.

Looked like prime Kobe today

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Borri,

Again, i agree with your basic premise. But Kobe has been hot the whole year. Does that mean we should let him do his thing while everyone stands and watches? I mean i get what you're saying. Some guy has the hot hand in a game and you ride him out. But Kobe is so effective right now that i feel like the team is riding him way too much and Kobe is perfectly fine with it given his own ego and that's just not going to lead to championships.

Let me ask you this. Do u think Kobe's play in terms of getting others involved and facilitating is the same from his two peat years to now?

You are assuming, wrongly that Kobe goes out every first quarter and dominates the ball. That's NOT the case. Since Nash came back, he's only had one bad game...GS. Every game he's been taking the good looks teams give him. Remember, NASh plays almost all of the first quarter, so how can Kobe be stopping the ball?

Second, we've played good games where guys made their shots, every game except for PHI and tonight. We've had good ball movement and guys were hitting shots. Go and look at the stats for the 6 games Nash has been back. 4 of the six, our guys hit there shots and we moved the ball WITH Kobe playing well. It can and does co-exist, guys playing well ALONG with Kobe.

Our main problem is, we don't play good enough defense to eek out wins on bad shooting nights. We win tonight and PHI despite horrible shooting if we'd played any semblance of defense.