Kobe Discussion: Clash of the Titus! (671)

I thought he was great today. He played within the flow of the game, got everyone involved, and made some great shots.

He played well, but we cannot have a Kobe iso every single time down the floor, it eventually stops working and it honestly is not very fun to watch. I know this is about wins, but basketball is also entertainment, and this give the ball to Kobe and let him dribble and do something by the end of the 24 seconds is freaking ugly at times.

dwighthowardsdad wrote:I thought he was great today. He played within the flow of the game, got everyone involved, and made some great shots.

Agree...he though was part of the turnover fest in the fourth which led to Miami taking control. I recall three. 24's shooting was solid and kept them in the game.

he had a very good game today but he also had some crucial turnovers in the 4th that led to easy baskets for the heat. but all in all he had a very good game . and his and 1 shot was sweat.

Weezy wrote:He played well, but we cannot have a Kobe iso every single time down the floor, it eventually stops working and it honestly is not very fun to watch. I know this is about wins, but basketball is also entertainment, and this give the ball to Kobe and let him dribble and do something by the end of the 24 seconds is freaking ugly at times.

I agree on the negative effect of the overuse of ISO offense, however, I don't think that's what happened today (or what the plan was).
Kobe was catching the ball on the post a lot -what many of us have wanted for a while-, and the plan was to iniciate our offense from there, just like in the OKC game, to name one. The difference was, however, that the combination of lack of movement off the ball from our players, a solid rotating D from Miami, and their decision to play Kobe straight up on multiple occations resulted in ISO-like possessions. I believe the goal was for Kobe to scan the floor and make the right play, and the result looked very much like ISOs because of what I just mentioned. As the clock winded down (say 12-10 seconds left), Kobe had to make a decision, to either take the guy guarding him (not a bad idea considering how good a 1 on 1 player he is), try to drive and kick or simply pass it out and see what happens. Many times he chose to take the guy guarding him, and he managed to score effectively.
Things got bad though in the 4th where, with us running the same type of plays, Miami changed their defensive style and starting to agressively trap Kobe on the block, while other defenders rotated effectively to cover the open guy. That resulted in some key turnovers, as Kobe either wasn't able to get the pass across the hard trap or the recipient wasn't able to secure the ball because he was intercepted by a rotating Heat defender (Battier some times, Wade -Allen was on Kobe- other times, Bosh helped too).

That's what I thought happened. So, as a coach, seeing Miami take it up a notch and start this agressive trapping of my most effective player at the time, and their other defenders rotating fast enough to force turnovers, I call a time out and figure out a different set to try and prevent that from happening. That's what I'd do, but MDA didn't think alike, he just kept going with the same set and things didn't really get better. We managed to score a couple of times, but we weren't consistent, and the Heat got some key deflections/steals to break the game open.

Of course there is blame to be assigned to the players regarding the failure of that scheme, Kobe rushed it a couple of times and wasn't able to complete the pass, Nash forced a bad pass that resulted in a LeBron dunk, Howard didn't react fast enough to hold on to the ball / catch it correctly...

I'm not blaming Kobe, I'm blaming 'Antoni, if that's all you can come up with as an 'offensive genius' you freakin suck.

good game. shot efficient. assisted. played okay D. kobe is works a lot of the time....but when miami shrinks their d in the 4th quarter the kobe iso isnt as effective especially trying to feed kobe the ball with that dangerous long lob pass. can easily be stolen and it was. i would have expected kobe to try something else but he didnt and im guessing thats on him and dantoni. would have liked to see some plays from the top of the key in the end bc we were close but all those turnovers with kobe iso killed us.

Really sucks for Kobe. The guy is playing the smartest, most efficient basketball of his career but his teammates don't give a damn about playing hard. And he has a coach that doesn't give a damn about defense.

Too bad Gasol is hurt. Could have helped facilitate.

Going to Kobe iso is stupid every play down the stretch. That's 100% on D'Antoni for putting him in that position. Same thing Mike Brown would do. It's gonna wear the guy down yet again.

Weezy wrote:I'm not blaming Kobe, I'm blaming 'Antoni, if that's all you can come up with as an 'offensive genius' you freakin suck.

I agree.

I think his reputation as an "offensive genius" as you say is completely undeserved. I think the real offensive genius in that team was Nash. He was running the point as good as anybody has during MDA's years in PHO, and actually had pieces around him that were very well suited for his game (Marion, Stoudamire, Bell, Diaw, Barbosa, Hill..).
He ran the offense of team USA last year right? Of course they dominated with all that talent, but if you remember correctly, the offense they ran was pretty terrible. No movement off the ball, no post play (they could've taken advantage of their size & strength there), too much 1 on 1, too many 3s, pick and rolls that led nowhere and ended up being 1 on 1 plays... Sound familiar?

As time passes I get more and more convinced that MDA is a terrible coach. Not gonna say he's the reason behind our sub .500 record, but he certainly hasn't helped.
I don't think he's smart either.

^Gasol would have helped tremendously offensively. How many Kobe-Gasol P&R's do they run a game. It's a lot. You can also put him at the top of the key, on the right or left block, he can pass very well; Kobe wouldn't have so much pressure on him to produce in ISO if Gasol was playing today.

Off the subject, I was watching Jerry Sloan's offense in a YouTube video breakdown; IMO, if we didn't get Phil, Sloan's offense would have fit this roster perfectly...

dwighthowardsdad wrote:Off the subject, I was watching Jerry Sloan's offense in a YouTube video breakdown; IMO, if we didn't get Phil, Sloan's offense would have fit this roster perfectly...

Yet we didn't interview him for some reason ...

This team is built to succeed in the half court (which is what we've been playing anyway). Yet they went with a run & gun coach?

Should've maximized our abilities in the half court. If you don't go with Phil, why not at least go with the next best half-court coach? Oh yeah and he actually gives a damn about defense too.

My only real gripe with Kobe is that he doesn't defend. Its a lack of effort.

Every single time someone sets a screen for Kobe's man...Kobe stops the play, it ends for him there. He never ever tries to fight through any screen. He just stops watching the ball and waiting for help defense to switch on his man. Not 70% of the time, not 80% of the time but like 100% of the time. I don't understand how you take pride in defense for like 3 games after criticism pours in, harassing people full court and then go back to your usual turnstyle defense.

It shows a lack of effort to me because he can, he just doesn't do it often.

Weezy wrote:He played well, but we cannot have a Kobe iso every single time down the floor, it eventually stops working and it honestly is not very fun to watch. I know this is about wins, but basketball is also entertainment, and this give the ball to Kobe and let him dribble and do something by the end of the 24 seconds is freaking ugly at times.

not only it wasn't fun to watch but it didn't work at all ... we lost because we played 20 straight plays for Kobe - identical it was so predictable and easy to guard ...

I have to agree. Kobe played great overall, but in the 4th there was waaaaay too much dump it to Kobe and let's iso/post up. It got very predictable and Miami adjusted well. I don't blame Kobe though, I blame Antoni for NEVER having a plan B and making the necesseray adjustments. A team CANNOT win a championship without being able to adjust throughout, that's where good coaching comes in. Heck, the only reason why we are playing better these days and winning some games is because we chose to IGNORE Antonis offensive "playbook". We went back to the post, started to take advantage of our players strenghts, and voila we start winning. Offensive genius my [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.].

^ Plan B is and has been since we started playing this way to have a pick and roll with Nash/Howard or Nash/Clark.

That's been Plan B since we started playing this way for sure.

But yesterday Howard didn't want to play hard and Clark is so inexperienced we just couldn't do it. We tried and it wouldn't work. So we stuck with Plan A which at least gave Kobe a chance to take over.

Kobe: "People trying to find (bleep) between me and Dwight need a life. It's manufactured. At least the Shaq stuff was warranted."

http://lakeshowlife.com/2013/02/10/kobe ... ight-talk/

"It’s really not that big of a deal. This thing (that started in Boston), they really made something out of nothing. There’s nothing I said that was out of the ordinary or that I haven’t said before in talking to him.”

“Honestly, I’m done talking about it. There’s nothing to talk about. I’m done with it. There’s nothing to discuss.”

"People trying to find (bleep) between me and Dwight need to get a life, it's silly. At least the Shaq stuff was warrranted. This is comical."

"I told Dwight that story and how people making it out to be is total (bleep)."

More from Kobe:

http://www.lakersnation.com/video-kobe- ... dl1tohasHg

“It’s conflict that is actually manufactured. I didn’t say anything wrong…I wasn’t hammering him over the head or taking a run at him.”

“I’ll own up to my (bleep) if I took a run at somebody."

After laughing that statement off, Kobe also informed reporters that although he wasn’t one to address media stories with his teammates, he did reach out to Howard to clarify that he was not calling him out, and that his quotes were taken out of context. Asked if they were able to laugh off the stories in the locker room.

“I think they’re entertaining. I have a sick sense of humor I guess.”

[quote="KB24" Not 70% of the time, not 80% of the time but like 100% of the time.

[/quote]
Don't disagree with you but all the time? Were you watching the same game I was because I recall at least a few plays where I was happy kobe was actually fighting through screens and attempting to get into the right defensive position.

I heard Cowherd this morning do two things which shocked me:

1. He called Kobe one of the two best players ever next Jordan. He's not a hater, but he's not a lover of Kobe usually either. He struggled to find reasons why Jordan and Kobe are different from Melo because he wouldn't credit them with being willing passers. Which is funny because they are. The reason Melo isn't on their level is because Jordan and Kobe play defense and their games are more multifaceted than just scoring.

2. He was tearing down Jordan's mantle to give to LeBron already. He was saying "Jordan played with an All-Star team" that's why he was so successful. LeBron didn't win anything until he played with Wade and Bosh. Now is that tearing down? No, not exactly I suppose, but that's because we're all less invested than the media in the legend of Jordan. ESPN generally would have you believe that Jordan built 6 rings on his own back without much help. Now that LeBron is King they're being more honest about Jordan and his legacy. Now Jordan had the best Robin ever, he had the best Euro in the game, he had the best rebounder in the league (maybe ever) and he had some of the best shooters in the league (all said by Cowherd).

It's something I haven't seen from a media head yet... I thought it was interesting. Especially since Kobe's frst 3 rings are almost always discounteed since he won them with Shaq.

therealdeal wrote:I
2. He was tearing down Jordan's mantle to give to LeBron already. He was saying "Jordan played with an All-Star team" that's why he was so successful. LeBron didn't win anything until he played with Wade and Bosh. Now is that tearing down? No, not exactly I suppose, but that's because we're all less invested than the media in the legend of Jordan. ESPN generally would have you believe that Jordan built 6 rings on his own back without much help. Now that LeBron is King they're being more honest about Jordan and his legacy. Now Jordan had the best Robin ever, he had the best Euro in the game, he had the best rebounder in the league (maybe ever) and he had some of the best shooters in the league (all said by Cowherd).

It's something I haven't seen from a media head yet... I thought it was interesting. Especially since Kobe's frst 3 rings are almost always discounteed since he won them with Shaq.

I`m not suprised by this because realistically the fans of today are not connected to MJ. Just like fans who came in on the MJ ride were not connected with Magic and Larry. Lebron has been great plain and simple. However, the media and the "oooh right now" fans need a GOAT. Kobe came to close after MJ and the pundits spent years deminishing him. Now, LBJ in his prime is far removed from the "world of MJ can't be touched" so it is OK now. Plus, the whole MJ and Bobcats messed up the unstainable image of MJ. Fans today only really "know" that MJ. In my opinion the sports media put LBJ on the fast track to be the new GOAT from day 1. He has played great for sure but there has been almost no detractors to his legacy (outside of the...take my talents to south beach thing).

Don't you find it amazing that KD isn't praised more?

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Don't you find it amazing that KD isn't praised more?

I do. But at the same time, most of the media's agenda is so obvious that it's hardly surprising by now.

OK so it has been brought up on more than one occassion in the GD thread so I figure I'll ask....

Is Kobe proving a point with 0 shots in the first half? Is he trying to show D12 that he (D12) shouldn't have to have touches to play with energy, effort plus being helpful to the team.

My thought: No, he isn't proving a point but I wouldn't blame him if he did. He did pass up one or two late ones but I think that was because he was going for the flashy play. All in all, I don't believe it is to prove a point more to conserve his energy. What do ya'll think?

This is the worst game by Kobe I've seen him played this season.

to conserve energy??? lol

dude ur stretching it for all its worth but if thats what you believe..