Kobe Thread: Bucher- Kobe = Father of Team USA Success p.819

Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Basketball Fan on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:34 pm

Kobe to appear on Kimmel tonight
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:49 pm

gcclaker wrote:
Chillbongo wrote:This man is not human

Stu Lantz...is that you? :man12:

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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby TIME on Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:56 pm

Basketball Fan wrote:Kobe to appear on Kimmel tonight


What the... why isn't he working on his 30ft left handed three ball? Slacker. :disagree:
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby JGC on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:44 pm

Jazzygirl205 wrote:The MVP award has never really been the same, and Kobe seems to always finish 3rd every season. How is he qualified for it every year, ends up always finishing 3rd and only won one, which is the season I thought he deserved it less? What Kobe is doing this season pretty much is no exception because he'll get the same finish he always gets, somewhere around 4th or 5th this time though because our team record sucks and people think Tony Parker and Carmelo should be ahead of him. It's worthless to me now.


Ok, but let's try to be fair. There is no way Kobe should get the MVP this season right? I mean...

- Same point average as Lebron (27 for Lebron vs 27.6 for Kobe)
- Lebron averages more assists
- Lebron averages more rebounds
- Lebron averages more steals
- Lebron averages more blocks
- Lebron averages fewer turnovers
- Lebron shoots a higher percentage from field
- Lebron shoots a higher percentage from 3pt range
- Lebron even averages much fewer personal fouls (not that that should really count but still)
- Lebron's team has a better record

- Kobe has him on points, FT percentage and that's it.

Comparing to Durant....
- Durant averages more points
- Durant averages more rebounds
- Durant averages more steals
- Durant averages more blocks
- Durant averages fewer turnovers
- Durant shoots a higher percentage from field
- Durant shoots a higher percentage from 3pt range
- Durant shoots a higher percentage from FT line
- Durant even averages much fewer personal fouls (not that that should really count but still)
- Durant's team has a better record

- Kobe has him on assists, that's it.

Kobe's having a great year statistically, and an amazing year given his age and mileage, and his team record is not good which is a requirement so I can't see how THIS year at least, Kobe could reasonably be any better than 3rd.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby checkers09 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:29 pm

Doc Rivers on Kobe...

But while he doesn’t like judging current players against retired icons, Rivers did add that he thinks Kobe Bryant’s greatness sometimes gets overlooked.

“I think because he followed Michael, he probably doesn’t get the due he deserves,” said Rivers. “What he’s doing right now, at his age, I watched last night because I watch most of New Orleans’ games for personal reasons, he’s playing at a different level himself.”


http://jimrome.com/2013/03/07/doc-talks ... Y8.twitter

Yet as I watched him Monday, I could not help think how little it mattered and how right he is. He is not fading into the shadows. He does not know how to go out that way.[.]
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:51 pm

JGC wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:The MVP award has never really been the same, and Kobe seems to always finish 3rd every season. How is he qualified for it every year, ends up always finishing 3rd and only won one, which is the season I thought he deserved it less? What Kobe is doing this season pretty much is no exception because he'll get the same finish he always gets, somewhere around 4th or 5th this time though because our team record sucks and people think Tony Parker and Carmelo should be ahead of him. It's worthless to me now.


Ok, but let's try to be fair. There is no way Kobe should get the MVP this season right? I mean...

- Same point average as Lebron (27 for Lebron vs 27.6 for Kobe)
- Lebron averages more assists
- Lebron averages more rebounds
- Lebron averages more steals
- Lebron averages more blocks
- Lebron averages fewer turnovers
- Lebron shoots a higher percentage from field
- Lebron shoots a higher percentage from 3pt range
- Lebron even averages much fewer personal fouls (not that that should really count but still)
- Lebron's team has a better record

- Kobe has him on points, FT percentage and that's it.

Comparing to Durant....
- Durant averages more points
- Durant averages more rebounds
- Durant averages more steals
- Durant averages more blocks
- Durant averages fewer turnovers
- Durant shoots a higher percentage from field
- Durant shoots a higher percentage from 3pt range
- Durant shoots a higher percentage from FT line
- Durant even averages much fewer personal fouls (not that that should really count but still)
- Durant's team has a better record

- Kobe has him on assists, that's it.

Kobe's having a great year statistically, and an amazing year given his age and mileage, and his team record is not good which is a requirement so I can't see how THIS year at least, Kobe could reasonably be any better than 3rd.


shocker a entire post showing how Kobe doesn't match up to his lordship. We all know Kobe can't measure up in most people's eyes to the mighty king. If Stats were the only thing that matters then Kobe would be a 2/3 time MVP already. But hey who cares Lebron is carrying all those scrubs in the toughest conference ever.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Pig Miller on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 pm

kobe is truly amazing. i'm sure we won't see another one of his kind, ever.

whenever his last season is, i hope he gets a standing ovation at the beginning of every game. an 81 second standing ovation each time.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:41 pm

Meh JGC, kind of helped Kobe's case by basically proving he's statistically right there with everyone else, and he shouldn't be to be honest but he is, also he takes more 3 pointers than everyone else but is still shooting a decent percentage 33% considering he had that slump. Since team record seems to play a big part here, the Knicks have a better record than the Lakers by a long shot and Carmelo is having a similar season as well his fg% is 44% for the season, averages 21 fg a, and 2 assists a game, is the second leading scoring in the NBA behind Durant shooting 38% behind the arc though so should we have him above Bryant since his team has a winning record and he's playing well individually this season? Why put Kobe at number 3 then?

LeBron and Durant clearly are having great seasons, who wouldn't give it to them. But take into consideration bosh and wade are shooting in the same range field goal wise as Durant and LeBron and Wade is averaging 21 points a game himself with 5 assists and rebounds. Last 10 games Wade shot 57 percent and averaged 24 points. Russell is averaging 23 points and 7 assists along side Durant shooting 43% from the floor. Previous 10 games he shot 51% and averaged 29 points. March in total average 34 points on 52% shooting along side Durant.

None of Kobe's side kicks are really doing what Wade and Russell are doing so far, last 10 games Kobe has shot 52% 7 assists and 6 rebounds, this old fart here, and averaged 28.6 points a game. The entire month of march so far he's shooting 52% from the floor averaging 5 rebounds and 6 assists on 34 points a game with a depleted injured team barely making the playoffs, as well as he himself.

You know it's kind of like what Kobe and Shaq did during the 3 peat era and neither got MVP considerations because they so called "cancelled one another out" or how unfair it would be since they're both good I'm just saying. I put no stock in the MVP too much anymore, I don't think Kobe does either, sure is cool to discuss and give opinions on it though.

This pretty much sums up my sentiments...
2. When talk turns to this season’s NBA MVP, the names brought up quickest are those of Miami’s LeBron James, OKC’s Kevin Durant and New York’s Carmelo Anthony. All are having phenomenal seasons and would be deserving winners. But if the Lakers make the playoffs, it would be an injustice if Bryant didn’t win it. He has done everything he could to keep the team from collapsing through coaching changes, injuries, bad basketball and reported locker room disagreements. He has taken on different roles for the Lakers all season long — not just for a game or two. Early on he was leading the league in scoring, then became the de facto point guard when it made the team better. He’s also been the defensive stopper, definitely a team leader, and sometimes all of the above roles in the same game. Said head coach Mike D’Antoni: “I don’t even want to think about where we’d be without Kobe doing what he’s done for us.” Actually, coach, you wouldn’t have to think about it — your season would already be over. And is there any better definition of an MVP?


http://www.foxsportswest.com/03/03/13/Lakers-Hawks-500-Kobe-Bryant-playoff-cha/landing_lakers.html?blockID=873355&feedID=8686[/quote]

I guess next season look for him to be 3rd again before he retires :man10:
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:56 pm

checkers09 wrote:Doc Rivers on Kobe...

But while he doesn’t like judging current players against retired icons, Rivers did add that he thinks Kobe Bryant’s greatness sometimes gets overlooked.

“I think because he followed Michael, he probably doesn’t get the due he deserves,” said Rivers. “What he’s doing right now, at his age, I watched last night because I watch most of New Orleans’ games for personal reasons, he’s playing at a different level himself.”


http://jimrome.com/2013/03/07/doc-talks ... Y8.twitter


Doc always admires Kobe and what he's done as a player, that's why though he coaches the Celtics I respect him. I know I wasn't bat crap (lol) crazy when I said he often gets denied true admiration of what he's done for the game of basketball because of the constant dissection of him as a human being first and foremost, then the nit picking as a player.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Maluco Beleza on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:58 pm

so puffy u think Kobe is mvp with the record the lakers have? come on
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:06 pm

The day they took away the right of NBA players to vote for MVP was the day it lost all credibility
Last edited by KareemTheGreat33 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:08 pm

Maluco Beleza wrote:so puffy u think Kobe is mvp with the record the lakers have? come on


Kobe is the MVP of the Lakers plain and simple. Stats don't just make an MVP which is what was spoken about. If Lebron was doing what Kobe is doing through all the injuries on the team he would be given the MVP at the all star game. Truth is if the Lakers don't make it then Kobe does not because his team came up short (my opinion). However, like Jazzygirl eluded too if the Lakers make it to the 7/8 sport in the tougher conference, putting up the numbers he has put up, doing all the things that he is doing then he damn well should be an MVP favorite. Even you guys who seem to think he never does anything right should be able to see that fact. Well, JGC has already proven that I am probably wrong that it should be easily seen.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Cleansed on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:51 pm

...what goal hasnt Kobe Bryant accomplished or yardstick has he not measured up to as an NBA player ?

I'm trying to figure out by what standard is someone being considered "better" than Kobe both this year and from a career perspective.

I'm not declaring that i think Kobe Bryant is the best basketball player of all time. However...i am having a hard time justifying to myself why i might consider other specific players as having been better (specifically Kareem, Michael and Magic). With regard to this years play i cannot confidently state that i believe that any other player has been a better definition of an MVP . Not that i'm overly concerned about the award but from a fan perspective (i.e. not a media perspective) i just dont believe anyone to be superior as a candidate this year save perhaps Tony Parker.

Basically i'm trying to think like a Kobe detractor and figure out what he hasn't accomplished that they think he ..should have? Both from a career perspective and this year.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Maluco Beleza on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:06 pm

and if Lakers miss the playoffs Kobe is still MVP?
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Maluco Beleza on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:18 pm

don't get me wrong Kobe is playing insane but without a top record its kind of hard to give him the MVP
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby karacha on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:22 pm

Maluco Beleza wrote:and if Lakers miss the playoffs Kobe is still MVP?


I think he already answered that question. But you actually have to read his post.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby SpencerHarrison on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:27 pm

Maluco Beleza wrote:and if Lakers miss the playoffs Kobe is still MVP?


No. To have an MVP season, you need to have your team in the playoffs. That, I think, is a fair yardstick.

I have absolutely nothing to complain about regarding Kobe this season. And I agree with the notion of; "What HASN'T Kobe done to merit GOAT discussion?"

At this point, that is a better question.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:32 pm

karacha wrote:
Maluco Beleza wrote:and if Lakers miss the playoffs Kobe is still MVP?


I think he already answered that question. But you actually have to read his post.


wouldn't "reading the post" be the same as "actually watching the games without looking to blame Kobe"? If that is that case then it may be impossible.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby JGC on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:47 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Maluco Beleza wrote:so puffy u think Kobe is mvp with the record the lakers have? come on


Kobe is the MVP of the Lakers plain and simple. Stats don't just make an MVP which is what was spoken about. If Lebron was doing what Kobe is doing through all the injuries on the team he would be given the MVP at the all star game. Truth is if the Lakers don't make it then Kobe does not because his team came up short (my opinion). However, like Jazzygirl eluded too if the Lakers make it to the 7/8 sport in the tougher conference, putting up the numbers he has put up, doing all the things that he is doing then he damn well should be an MVP favorite. Even you guys who seem to think he never does anything right should be able to see that fact. Well, JGC has already proven that I am probably wrong that it should be easily seen.


There is really no rationalization for Kobe being an MVP favorite this year. His stats, relative to his peers, does not warrant it. Two players are posting elite numbers at a rate of efficiency Kobe has never done even if you took his best shooting, 3pt and FT shooting from any season and mushed them together. And on top of that, their teams are doing substantially better record wise.

You don't get bonus points because your team was injured. You don't get bonus points for being old. You don't get bonus points for playing in a tougher conference. That's not how MVP works. MVP is about who had the best season period. A player should get extra points for facing adversity? Pathetic. That's not what MVP is about. MVP is about weathering through whatever you have to, to have the best individual and team season. Hence, you know, valuable! I have never seen a fan base make so many excuses for a player who shouldn't need any.

It's so ironic. In 2005-2006, Nash won his second MVP. He got his Suns to the 2nd seed in that oh-so-tough Western Conference. He had Amare Stoudemire for a grand total of THREE games that season and they weren't even complete games. He played a total of 16 mins over each of those 3 games that season. Barbosa (1 season removed from his career year) missed 25 games. Yet... you weren't picking Nash for MVP that year.

You know, it would be a lot better if people would be transparent and just admit that their MVP pick is Kobe is because he's a Laker and their favorite one at that. That's fine then, we won't even have to debate. But to pretend as if you have this real and objective criteria by which you nominate MVP candidates and lo and behold it's Kobe once again for the 17th time in a row, come on, you aren't fooling anybody and you certainly aren't fooling me.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby The Rock on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:47 pm

Kim Jong Un :man10:

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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby The Rock on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:52 pm

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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:15 am

Ill respond the way I know you appreciate. One block at a time.
JGC wrote:There is really no rationalization for Kobe being an MVP favorite this year. His stats, relative to his peers, does not warrant it. Two players are posting elite numbers at a rate of efficiency Kobe has never done even if you took his best shooting, 3pt and FT shooting from any season and mushed them together. And on top of that, their teams are doing substantially better record wise.

So in your never ending crusade to not give Kobe credit you make your own rules for MVP. Cool. His stats are comparable to his peers who are front runners for MVP but he doesn't get the nod because their healthy teams are doing better than his team with significant injuries. Hmmm. You might want to recheck what an MVP really is and not what ESPN has turned it into in order to give it to Lebron again. An MVP isn't just about stats. While Lebron is being praised it seems people keep forgetting that other guy who is also putting up great numbers he plays with... You know #3. Same for KD who relies on Westbrook. But hey, the guy who is also putting up the same numbers and has changed his role 5 times so his team could even remotely stay in reach of the playoffs isn't worthy. You can be all against him all you want but your "no rationalization" is not only irrational but well wrong.

You don't get bonus points because your team was injured. You don't get bonus points for being old. You don't get bonus points for playing in a tougher conference. That's not how MVP works. MVP is about who had the best season period. A player should get extra points for facing adversity? Pathetic. That's not what MVP is about. MVP is about weathering through whatever you have to, to have the best individual and team season. Hence, you know, valuable! I have never seen a fan base make so many excuses for a player who shouldn't need any.

Actually you do. You get bonus points for carrying a team through injury. It is the same reason guys lose MVP votes when they get injured yet their teams still win without them. Spurs winning hurts TP's MVP case. You have never seen a fan base make so many excuses because you have it in your head that it is your roll to "educate" us all in your wisdom. I'll help you out with why fans think that way.... Conference matters because putting up good numbers against tougher opposition is important. Playing through adversity is also important. But most importantly, "Valuable" means can't win without to most fans. That is what the MVP stood for before the latest changes. I am sure you use to know that but in your attempts to discredit Kobe you have failed to see the truth. But hey, hate is, you know... hate.

It's so ironic. In 2005-2006, Nash won his second MVP. He got his Suns to the 2nd seed in that oh-so-tough Western Conference. He had Amare Stoudemire for a grand total of THREE games that season and they weren't even complete games. He played a total of 16 mins over each of those 3 games that season. Barbosa (1 season removed from his career year) missed 25 games. Yet... you weren't picking Nash for MVP that year.

It isn't ironic. The ironic thing is you have so much anti-Kobe stats on call. Interesting. However, Kobe carried a team that most of the starters arent even in the league anymore while putting up incredible stats. What is funny is I am one of the biggest Nash supporters (go ahead and check the history if it makes you happy). By the way Kobe had himself and an injured LO playing in that same tough conference. You are trying to hard again.

You know, it would be a lot better if people would be transparent and just admit that their MVP pick is Kobe is because he's a Laker and their favorite one at that. That's fine then, we won't even have to debate. But to pretend as if you have this real and objective criteria by which you nominate MVP candidates and lo and behold it's Kobe once again for the 17th time in a row, come on, you aren't fooling anybody and you certainly aren't fooling me.


Then why don't you be equally transparent and say you are a Kobe hater? We also wouldn't have to debate. Easy. I didn't try to fool you because simply there is no need. Your game has been the same since you joined. Yup, still the same. I do love how you try to pretend you are "impartial" and have a "criteria" at all. But hey keep lying it makes for a good laugh.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:50 am

Looks like someone is back to the old tricks :man1: Finding everything to credit other players, but when it comes to Kobe and individuals accomplishments it's the total opposite, as if their mission is prohibit him from achieving a certain goal opposed to others. But I see a lot of Russell Westbrook praise on her daily aka "Next Kobe". **eye roll** True colors man, true colors.
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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Tragic on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:55 am

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Re: Kobe Discussion: 42 / 12 / 7 / 67% / Win = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Maluco Beleza on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 am

JGC wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Maluco Beleza wrote:so puffy u think Kobe is mvp with the record the lakers have? come on


Kobe is the MVP of the Lakers plain and simple. Stats don't just make an MVP which is what was spoken about. If Lebron was doing what Kobe is doing through all the injuries on the team he would be given the MVP at the all star game. Truth is if the Lakers don't make it then Kobe does not because his team came up short (my opinion). However, like Jazzygirl eluded too if the Lakers make it to the 7/8 sport in the tougher conference, putting up the numbers he has put up, doing all the things that he is doing then he damn well should be an MVP favorite. Even you guys who seem to think he never does anything right should be able to see that fact. Well, JGC has already proven that I am probably wrong that it should be easily seen.


There is really no rationalization for Kobe being an MVP favorite this year. His stats, relative to his peers, does not warrant it. Two players are posting elite numbers at a rate of efficiency Kobe has never done even if you took his best shooting, 3pt and FT shooting from any season and mushed them together. And on top of that, their teams are doing substantially better record wise.

You don't get bonus points because your team was injured. You don't get bonus points for being old. You don't get bonus points for playing in a tougher conference. That's not how MVP works. MVP is about who had the best season period. A player should get extra points for facing adversity? Pathetic. That's not what MVP is about. MVP is about weathering through whatever you have to, to have the best individual and team season. Hence, you know, valuable! I have never seen a fan base make so many excuses for a player who shouldn't need any.

It's so ironic. In 2005-2006, Nash won his second MVP. He got his Suns to the 2nd seed in that oh-so-tough Western Conference. He had Amare Stoudemire for a grand total of THREE games that season and they weren't even complete games. He played a total of 16 mins over each of those 3 games that season. Barbosa (1 season removed from his career year) missed 25 games. Yet... you weren't picking Nash for MVP that year.

You know, it would be a lot better if people would be transparent and just admit that their MVP pick is Kobe is because he's a Laker and their favorite one at that. That's fine then, we won't even have to debate. But to pretend as if you have this real and objective criteria by which you nominate MVP candidates and lo and behold it's Kobe once again for the 17th time in a row, come on, you aren't fooling anybody and you certainly aren't fooling me.


:bow:


me either and yet they think Im a hater for saying no way in **** kb is mvp....
how can any1 think kobe is MVP lolllll
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