Kobe Discussion: Shutting it down; Puts Lakers FO on blast

Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby thkthebest on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:29 am

Ariza3 wrote:Also while Kobe is facilitating there can be possessions just for him. Kobe is shooting more jump shots it seems this season and is probably shooting them at a higher percentage. Under Brown last season Mike made him play more off ball and had multiple screens set for him which led to someone passing it to him for a wide open jumper. Kobe should facilitate but if hes gunna score it should be off something like that so that others touch the ball and everyone is focused on kobe off ball it could open things up for others especially since duhon is actually a decent passer.


You must have forgotten how the Lakers were under Mike Brown because of that video.

Kobe shot a lot more jumpers last season, and it was really, really annoying at times. In the beginning of the season, Kobe moved off the ball a lot more and came off multiple screens. That changed like mid-January or something, and all Kobe did was iso and jack up jumper after jumper.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby Battle Tested20 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:50 am

Anyone watch Kobe's post game interview on TWC???

That was really entertaining and reading all of the tweets about what he was saying after the game Kobe was very talkative and even laughing a lot of the time. I loved when he flat out ***** ****** a couple of times on the TWC feed.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby Ariza3 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:20 am

just saying we can run some things for Kobe where he plays off ball that's all.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby frankrj on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Kobe is lying his butt off saying we got the talent. He's just being positive. The guys are older and slower and cannot keep up with the top teams. The truth hurts but it is what it is.
At least San Antonio understands that and has a few younger players that can play. Why the Lakers have not done that is beyond me.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby wcsoldier81 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:17 am

Yep SAS has understood it's a different league and has adapted his roster accordingly ... while our roster is filled with old and overpaid players... Kobe will never do what Timmy did though i.e to accept to take a step back and this is a pb regardless of what the "Kobe is God" type of fans think
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby JGC on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:57 am

My biggest beef with Kobe as of late is that the ball never seems to move once it touches his hands. That's the "black hole" effect which can really hamper a team's offensive flow and rhythm.

I notice that generally speaking, one of four things happen when Kobe gets the ball.

1) He dribbles around and shoots it, sometimes pump faking multiple times.
2) He swings a big cross court pass to someone on the other side of the court.
3) The ball is turned over.
4) He dumps the ball in to D12 on the block as if he is Shaq or Bynum and then everyone watches as Dwight tries to play back-to-the-basket center.

Over the past few games, I have noticed very few dribble penetration and kicks or PnR plays to get D12 easy looks. That is very unfortunate.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby Daloyalfan18 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:01 am

Another interesting Kobe fact, he is shooting the most free throws (8.8 attempts, 5th in the league) since the 07-08 season when he averaged 9.0 attempts.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 am

I'm a little surprised at this thread. Kobe had a better game than he's had in a while. He stepped up offensively, he played better defensively (still not good, but better), and he lead by example on the floor.

I'm as fed up with his lack of defensive focus as the next guy, but I thought last night was a more positive step than the last five games.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby abeer3 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:22 am

yeah, i don't get it, either. if you're going to go after kobe, last night's game shouldn't be the impetus. he's one of the very few lakers i didn't have a beef with last night.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby Weezy on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:28 am

I thought Kobe had a pretty great game yesterday, it's weird when 42 points and better defense overall is not a good game to some. Kind of tired of seeing the ESPN stat over and over that the Lakers are 1-10 when Kobe scores 30 or more though. It's a nice TV show stat, but to suggest that Kobe having big scoring games is why we're losing is kind of ridiculous. When Kobe HAS to score 30 or 40 points it's usually because the rest of the team is shooting poorly, or aren't stepping up and so forth. That's not always the case, but it is at least half the time, so I don't get them showing that stat over and over.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby easyguy on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:36 am

therealdeal wrote:I'm a little surprised at this thread. Kobe had a better game than he's had in a while. He stepped up offensively, he played better defensively (still not good, but better), and he lead by example on the floor.

I'm as fed up with his lack of defensive focus as the next guy, but I thought last night was a more positive step than the last five games.


Kobe will get recognition when the team start winning. He is the leader of this team, if they lose he will get the blame. Simple as that.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby JGC on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:57 am

Weezy wrote:I thought Kobe had a pretty great game yesterday, it's weird when 42 points and better defense overall is not a good game to some. Kind of tired of seeing the ESPN stat over and over that the Lakers are 1-10 when Kobe scores 30 or more though. It's a nice TV show stat, but to suggest that Kobe having big scoring games is why we're losing is kind of ridiculous. When Kobe HAS to score 30 or 40 points it's usually because the rest of the team is shooting poorly, or aren't stepping up and so forth. That's not always the case, but it is at least half the time, so I don't get them showing that stat over and over.


Kobe had a great individual game. I thought he played a poor team game. There were some possessions which were just mind boggling. Specifically, one where he was doubled, gave up his dribble, pump faked and then threw it like a football toward the backboard. Now, it banked and went in but you don't want to see those kinds of things from a team perspective.

The ball barely moved when it touched Kobe's hands and when it did, it was either a turnover, a cross court pass which wasn't always on the mark, or a bailout type of pass.

I think the reason they keep showing that stat, is because it defies what one might initially think. To me, you would think that if your #1 option is scoring a lot of points, as he should, the team would do well. What it should indicate, is that Kobe scoring lots of points doesn't result in wins.

Wasn't there a preseason discussion about "concerns" going in to the season and one of them raised was whether Kobe could truly play within the team concept, and not feel like he has to go hero ball whenever the team struggles? And I was told this was NOT considered a concern for this year. Yet, he's essentially done it 11 out of what, 21 games? I've said from the beginning. When the team struggles, that is NOT the time to abandon the team concept. That is the time to FORCE FEED the team concept even more. If Kobe can truly get his any time he wants, then he should push that team concept, get some guys going, and then get his at the end to close out games.

To me, it's not necessarily that he is putting up 30+ points, it's how he often gets to those 30 points that is my issue.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:02 am

easyguy wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I'm a little surprised at this thread. Kobe had a better game than he's had in a while. He stepped up offensively, he played better defensively (still not good, but better), and he lead by example on the floor.

I'm as fed up with his lack of defensive focus as the next guy, but I thought last night was a more positive step than the last five games.


Kobe will get recognition when the team start winning. He is the leader of this team, if they lose he will get the blame. Simple as that.

And he deserves some blame, as does everyone else. That doesn't stop the fact that last night he and Dwight were the only ones I was proud to be watching. Flawed though they might be, they gave their effort for the most part throughout the game.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:13 am

JGC wrote:My biggest beef with Kobe as of late is that the ball never seems to move once it touches his hands. That's the "black hole" effect which can really hamper a team's offensive flow and rhythm.

I notice that generally speaking, one of four things happen when Kobe gets the ball.

1) He dribbles around and shoots it, sometimes pump faking multiple times.
2) He swings a big cross court pass to someone on the other side of the court.
3) The ball is turned over.
4) He dumps the ball in to D12 on the block as if he is Shaq or Bynum and then everyone watches as Dwight tries to play back-to-the-basket center.

Over the past few games, I have noticed very few dribble penetration and kicks or PnR plays to get D12 easy looks. That is very unfortunate.


Very true. I've always felt Kobe-isos are some of the worst ways you can use a possession regardless if he scores. It takes everyone else out of the play and makes them feel useless and Kobe burns a ton of energy trying to do it. I can't comment on last nights game since I missed almost the entire thing so I don't know if that's what took place. But during this losing stretch I've just noticed Kobe isn't playing the same way anymore, he doesn't make a concerted effort to pass the ball. It's like he's so worried about losing games now that he wants to take matters into his own hands, a la 05-06 Lakers. And those cross court passes make me cringe every time.

This is obviously where Nash will help since he'll take the ball out of Kobe's hands and make sure everyone is involved in the offense.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby Armani on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:51 am

His defense isn't good, but just placing things in perspective, from 82games.com -

Lakers O Rating with Kobe on - 112
Lakers D Rating with Kobe on - 103

Lakers O Rating with Kobe off - 99. :man10:
Lakers D Rating with Kobe off - 110.

So, the Lakers offense AND defense gets significantly worse when Kobe's off court. His net on/off of 20.8 is the 2nd highest amongst superstars right now... Durant is the highest. Kobe's legitimately playing at an MVP level, and is the clear cut best player at his position.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby wcsoldier81 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:58 am

http://espn.go.com/videohub/video/clip?id=8739627&categoryid=2378529

In-depth Kobe interview (30 min ish) with SAS on the team struggles
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby thkthebest on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 pm

The "black hole" effect has merit, but I don't think last night wasn't one of those nights. For the first time in a long time, I kept thinking to myself that we needed Kobe to score 50 to win that game.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby KBJelleyBean24 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:36 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:Yep SAS has understood it's a different league and has adapted his roster accordingly ... while our roster is filled with old and overpaid players... Kobe will never do what Timmy did though i.e to accept to take a step back and this is a pb regardless of what the "Kobe is God" type of fans think

Kobe isn't the problem, it's the depth and hustle. Just because you aren't getting the ball doesn't mean you have an excuse not to play defense. We were saying that to Bynum for years, it should also apply to the role players.
I should get an assist for that. It's an intentional pass to oneself, so it's an assist. That way people can't say all I do is shoot.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby frankrj on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:53 pm

Armani wrote:His defense isn't good, but just placing things in perspective, from 82games.com -

So, the Lakers offense AND defense gets significantly worse when Kobe's off court. His net on/off of 20.8 is the 2nd highest amongst superstars right now... Durant is the highest. Kobe's legitimately playing at an MVP level, and is the clear cut best player at his position.


just like exceptional players with all-star stats on teams with losing records, there is growing consensus to invalidate their individual achievement. He is shooting great, but even he admits committing too many turnovers. In the 08' finals, game 7 (or 2009) he shot a bad percentage but he had 15 boards. He needs more assists now. 20 and 8 or 10 is better than 40 and 2 assists. His teammates just think they will not get any shots when he is out there. So, they will not put in 100% effort.

Durant is the highest. Great stat. He did work on his game and become a creator and dishing out more assists. Kobe and Dwight should be like Kobe and Shaq with alley oops all day.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby lAKERfaNaticKID on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:01 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:http://espn.go.com/videohub/video/clip?id=8739627&categoryid=2378529

In-depth Kobe interview (30 min ish) with SAS on the team struggles


Nice. Made me feel a little better as the season progresses. I won't Judge this team just yet until we have the whole squad playing together.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby DHL on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:48 pm



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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:03 pm

Yes those are three bad sequences.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby Ariza3 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:37 pm

lAKERfaNaticKID wrote:
wcsoldier81 wrote:http://espn.go.com/videohub/video/clip?id=8739627&categoryid=2378529

In-depth Kobe interview (30 min ish) with SAS on the team struggles


Nice. Made me feel a little better as the season progresses. I won't Judge this team just yet until we have the whole squad playing together.


Glad Kobe did the interview...even though it was with SAS. He prob knew fans could use something like this to put them a little at ease and understand it's a process especially without Nash & Pau. Kobe's confidence makes me feel better but also worrisome. After we were down 0-3 to OKC he had the same confidence and tone and said he thinks they can still come back. And then they didn't in that last game at all. I do think that without Nash and Pau this team will struggle ALOT. And i do agree that Pau is the key...pretty much the correlation between Pau having great games and us winning is unreal.

Pau is the key to this whole thing. Duhon has had Nash like games and still we lost..Nash will be huge but i really think Pau doing what he is capable of consistently is the key to this team and thank god we have time to get it together and get everyone back 100% healthy

I hope Kobe knows that even if he goes off for 40+ theres still a high chance that the lakers lose the game. Hope him and Dantoni figure out something for now when Nash & Gasol are gone.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby adub_beta on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:38 pm

can't wait to see Kobe drop 50 tomorrow and blowout the Knicks at MSG
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "most challenging stretch" - pg406

Postby kenzo on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:53 pm

Sounds like Pau is staying :man9:
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