Kobe Thread: Bucher- Kobe = Father of Team USA Success p.819

Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby trodgers on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:29 pm

Kobe's D is pretty awful. And it's a lack of effort, because he's still able to play D when he wants. Maybe though...just maybe...he should be forced to play fewer minutes so he can do both well when he's on the floor and let Meeks play 15-18 a night and keep Kobe fresh.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby easyguy on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:29 pm

kobebryant248 wrote:
Ariza3 wrote:ill put this game on Kobe and Mike IMO. Kobe for knowing what the team needs but still going 1v5 and not getting guys involved. he needs to be facilitating as LNG as Nash is gone and when he does then we win. then when D has to account for others he take over. and mike for playing Kobe so much when he could have played Meeks next to him...kid drills a 3 to out us up 7 in the 4th and takes him out and immediately were down by 1 never to recover after hack a Dwight.

also don't know why we didn't put gasol in when they hack a Dwight when we were only down 1 or tied. kind of bad rotations today IMO and Kobe forcing the issue all game. tons of possessions the ball didn't leave Kobe's hands and many Didnt end in points for us either. also his D was terrible today. everyone's was but Kobe's guys went off.



really put that on kobe ? wow that is awful and absolut not right. don t have any words for it. kobe didn t played that well but to put the loss on kobe . man are you serious ? i think you don t have not so much of a basketball clou :mad1:


hes the team captain, he's the team superstar, every loss is on him
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby King of Clutch on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:30 pm

kobebryant248 wrote:
Ariza3 wrote:ill put this game on Kobe and Mike IMO. Kobe for knowing what the team needs but still going 1v5 and not getting guys involved. he needs to be facilitating as LNG as Nash is gone and when he does then we win. then when D has to account for others he take over. and mike for playing Kobe so much when he could have played Meeks next to him...kid drills a 3 to out us up 7 in the 4th and takes him out and immediately were down by 1 never to recover after hack a Dwight.

also don't know why we didn't put gasol in when they hack a Dwight when we were only down 1 or tied. kind of bad rotations today IMO and Kobe forcing the issue all game. tons of possessions the ball didn't leave Kobe's hands and many Didnt end in points for us either. also his D was terrible today. everyone's was but Kobe's guys went off.



really put that on kobe ? wow that is awful and absolut not right. don t have any words for it. kobe didn t played that well but to put the loss on kobe . man are you serious ? i think you don t have not so much of a basketball clou :mad1:

I would definitely put this loss on kobe too. Its not that he necessarily had a bad game, its just that he controls so much of this teams potential right now with nash gone, that if he doesn't play the right way we lose.Its as simple as that. A pass first kobe right now with nash out will guarantee us wins. The problem is, kobe isn't thinking that way.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby GoldenKnight on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:30 pm

Kobe doesn't know what defense is anymore, he thinks it means to raise your hands and complain to the ref while not getting back to guard your man.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:31 pm

King of Clutch wrote:So dissapointed in kobe's defense. It was HORRIBLE today in my opinion. And just dissapointed in him overall. Kobe can play point. He just chooses not to do it consistently . The triangle allowed the team to thrive off of not needing a pg. But with a team and system like this, no proper point guard play will ALWAYS result in a loss. Kobe is a shooting guard, but there is no reason why he can't play the way the team needs him to, until nash gets back. But kobe's not doing it. It just wont happen. I thought he would, but I can see now that it just won't happen. He can say whatever he wants about running the point while being a shooting guard, but his play is doing the talking for him. This team will be average until nash gets back, and plays point the right way. Because kobe sure aint doing it...


i think he does it well, when he chooses to do it. unfortunately, it seems when he gets bored and goes for his, the team suffers.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby easyguy on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:32 pm

JLaker17 wrote:I can not wait for Nash to come back and take the ball away from Kobe coming up the court. Kobe is able to run the offense beautifully, but he is a scorer and he will look for his shot primarily before others. Not only in this game did he look for his shot, but he wanted to play 1v5 it seemed.

Defense has been horrible all year as well.



I dont see Kobe giving up the ball even when Nash comes back.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby Finwë on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:33 pm

Many complaints about his D, and very reasonable ones. I think the problem is with screens. His man D is still decent and if he's really trying he can be a lockdown guy, but as soon as he's screened that's it, he's almost done. He's getting crushed on screens and hasn't been fast enough or hasn't tried hard enough to recover, rather he switches almost every single time and since our team isn't fast enough or determined enough to rotate effectively over and over again, that means open looks for the opposition.
I still think Pau is our weakest link on D, but Kobe has been pretty bad this season.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:33 pm

His D is awful as the game starts ... tired legs probably make it worse as the game goes on but heavy minutes aren't the first reason his D sucks ...

He sure lost lateral quickness but I've seen it more as a " F it , I'm saving my energy for O, role players can't make shots anyways" attitude
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby easyguy on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:34 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:Kobe doesn't know what defense is anymore, he thinks it means to raise your hands and complain to the ref while not getting back to guard your man.


That is another thing, he [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] and whine too much. Almost everytime he drives in and not make and even when he makes the shots, he'll complain.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby trodgers on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:35 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:His D is awful as the game starts ... tired legs probably make it worse as the game goes on but heavy minutes aren't the first reason his D sucks ...

He sure lost lateral quickness but I've seen it more as a " F it , I'm saving my energy for O, role players can't make shots anyways" attitude

That's the cynical take. He is asked to initiate as a PG. That requires effort.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby King of Clutch on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:38 pm

gill wrote:Efficient Kobe at the beginning of the season is no longer efficient. I don't care if he's being asked to do ballhandling more, get other's involved.

Also dissapointed in this with kobe. Kobe can easily average over 50% if he wants. That has been clear to me this season. He just doesn't play the game the right way. He takes waaaaaay too many difficult shots. Earlier this season you hardly saw kobe taking one legged fadeaways, or long twos. It was mostly him picking good shots, and shooting with set feet. In the past two games, kobe's shot selection has been the way it has over his career. I was foolish to be against all those who thought his fg% will slowly go back to career norms. I really thought he changed his offensive mindset with the new stars around him. But we're slowly seeing kobe revert back into how he used to play offensively. Its not necessarily a bad thing, but its just not 50% efficient.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:40 pm

He's been playing facilitator for his whole career ( in a different way , not as many as PNR) ...

Of course stamina is a pb but it's not the main pb here ... it's not like he's playing good D in the 1st halfs of the games... he's just roaming and gambling out there regardless who he's guarding
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby Ariza3 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:05 am

King of Clutch wrote:
kobebryant248 wrote:
Ariza3 wrote:ill put this game on Kobe and Mike IMO. Kobe for knowing what the team needs but still going 1v5 and not getting guys involved. he needs to be facilitating as LNG as Nash is gone and when he does then we win. then when D has to account for others he take over. and mike for playing Kobe so much when he could have played Meeks next to him...kid drills a 3 to out us up 7 in the 4th and takes him out and immediately were down by 1 never to recover after hack a Dwight.

also don't know why we didn't put gasol in when they hack a Dwight when we were only down 1 or tied. kind of bad rotations today IMO and Kobe forcing the issue all game. tons of possessions the ball didn't leave Kobe's hands and many Didnt end in points for us either. also his D was terrible today. everyone's was but Kobe's guys went off.



really put that on kobe ? wow that is awful and absolut not right. don t have any words for it. kobe didn t played that well but to put the loss on kobe . man are you serious ? i think you don t have not so much of a basketball clou :mad1:

I would definitely put this loss on kobe too. Its not that he necessarily had a bad game, its just that he controls so much of this teams potential right now with nash gone, that if he doesn't play the right way we lose.Its as simple as that. A pass first kobe right now with nash out will guarantee us wins. The problem is, kobe isn't thinking that way.


thank you someone gets what im saying. its a broader "blame" on kobe's game
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby GoldenKnight on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:50 am

Kobe Bryant calls out Pau Gasol

LOS ANGELES -- For the second time in five games, Los Angeles Lakers forward Pau Gasol watched the final minutes of the fourth quarter from the sidelines. Kobe Bryant says that Gasol has to take it into his own hands to change that.

"Put your big-boy pants on," Bryant said after the Lakers' 113-103 loss to the Orlando Magic on Sunday that dropped the team's record to just 8-9. "Just adjust. Just adjust. You can't whine about it. You can't complain about it."


http://espn.go.com/losangeles/conversations/_/id/8704495/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-calls-pau-gasol-loss
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby havoc33 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:30 am

Kobe has definitely not been playing the right way the last few weeks. It's mind boggling to see us go from blow out wins one day to crushing defeats next, and a lot of it has to do with Kobe. No point in me rehashing too much of it, you guys have pointed out pretty clearly already what the problem is. But his defense is atrocious, and before he starts trashing other guys, he'd be wise to look at himself in the mirror for once. Also with the makeup of this team, we are totally dependent on having good offensive games, which is why we are losing so much this year when Kobe dominates the ball too much. The others feel left out, and our already slow and non-reactive defense becomes no D whatsoever. Kobe should be aiming to get 8-10 assists every game, which is absolutely possible with the personell he's got.

The bigger issue I would say though is that I still think Mike D'Antoni was a really bad choice as our head coach. He is trying to implement a system that does not fit his team. The main core of this team is too old to play the way he wants them to. The fact that we at this point are totally relying on a 50 year old Steve Nash to rescue the season is saying something. I might be wrong and everything turns to gold when he's back, but it has to worry everyone that we are so freakin' vulnerable.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby Ras Algethi on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:30 am

Kobe is just forcing his man baseline waiting for the big to help. I understand this is the defensive philosophy but he's not even trying to put up some resistance, he's just ushering him base line.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:16 am

I get calling out Pau, but he should acknowledge his own shortcomings in the same breath or it suggests a double standard that cannot be maintained.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby havoc33 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:21 am

Some of the Kobe quotes were left out of the article. Now the bold part is something I don't ever want to read from a 17 year veteran with more mileage on his body than the rest of the league combined:

“Put your big-boy pants on,” Kobe said with a trace of disgust in his voice. “C’mon . . . just adjust. You can’t whine about it or complain about it. Heck, I’m 34 years old, and I’m running screen-and-rolls out there because Steve (Nash) is out, and my [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] is running up and down the court more than I ever have in my entire career. But you have to adjust to it.

“I stay after practice and work on my ball-handling and screen-and-rolls, and when you have the talent to adjust to it, you just . . . have . . . to . . . adjust . . . to . . . it.

“We’re not going to lose (Pau). This is just not going to happen. I’ve been around him long enough to know how to deal with him.”

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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:41 am

Armani wrote:MDA is burning him out. His minutes have to be restricted, or he won't play a lick of D


he doesn't play D regardless
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:44 am

havoc33 wrote:Kobe has definitely not been playing the right way the last few weeks. It's mind boggling to see us go from blow out wins one day to crushing defeats next, and a lot of it has to do with Kobe. No point in me rehashing too much of it, you guys have pointed out pretty clearly already what the problem is. But his defense is atrocious, and before he starts trashing other guys, he'd be wise to look at himself in the mirror for once. Also with the makeup of this team, we are totally dependent on having good offensive games, which is why we are losing so much this year when Kobe dominates the ball too much. The others feel left out, and our already slow and non-reactive defense becomes no D whatsoever. Kobe should be aiming to get 8-10 assists every game, which is absolutely possible with the personell he's got.

The bigger issue I would say though is that I still think Mike D'Antoni was a really bad choice as our head coach. He is trying to implement a system that does not fit his team. The main core of this team is too old to play the way he wants them to. The fact that we at this point are totally relying on a 50 year old Steve Nash to rescue the season is saying something. I might be wrong and everything turns to gold when he's back, but it has to worry everyone that we are so freakin' vulnerable.


^^ Solid post. I pretty much agree with you on most of it except about Nash being 50. :man12: :man10:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby Big Mamma Jamma on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:52 am

Hmmmm .... I noticed that Kobe doesn't play D at times but I think that is a result of the effort he has to put out on the offensive end to keep the team in games. It's also why he's had a high number of turnovers this season. He's gap filling until the Steves get back.

You guys are really quite picky. I can understand the frustration but the guy can't do both offense and defense at an allstar level all of the time. He's 34, has to preserve energy for when he is needed and will pick an choose when to play D and when not to. I actually don't have a problem with that.

When the Steves finally return, MDA really needs to settle on a rotation to give some of the older guys rest. Kobe needs it. He cannot play as many minutes as he has been this season or Kobe will have nothing left for the playoffs (assuming we get there).

I think we'll be fine. I firmly believe that Pau will be traded though ... we'll see what happens.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:05 am

Oh, my word. Where do I start. First of all, I'm glad he called out Gasol. If Gasol can't adjust or doesn't fit MDA's philosphy, he might have to be traded. Kobe has been a staunch supporter of Pau; even so far as calling out the FO last year when Pau was in the midst of trade rumors.

Unfortunately, Kobe has to strike a balance between scoring & facilating. Kobe is a lot of things but he's not a pass first PG. He's a scorer by nature. The problem comes when Morris who is starting can't run a halfcourt set to save his life. Duhon is better and should be paired more with Kobe as he was the last two games to handle setting up the offensive responsibilities.

That was the beauty of bringing Nash to to allieviate Kobe of those duties from the offense to Kobe can do what he is good at and score the basketball. As for his defense, it has been bad. The whole team is horrible. There's no effort on our team. That's where we have to get better and that starts with Kobe leading by example...
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:13 am

people say Kobe has to conserve his energy on D for O, I bet we'll still see the same garbage D out of him when Nash comes back. Its fine to say he's old and can't play D at a high lvl anymore but I have a hard time believing that D for O scenario because Kobe D has been lacking for the last several years now, even during Phil days he went to that roaming D stuff and still did't play solid D most of the time.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby dj vitus on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:33 am

The last game, Denver tried to double/triple Kobe every time he touched the ball, and we all know that doesn't work. He'll distribute and let everyone else get their shots and get confident.

Last night, to me, it seemed like Jacque Vauhgn's coaching strategy was to let Kobe get his 40 while shutting down everyone else.

Tire out Kobe, don't let him distribute, let his teammates get frustrated missing all their shots, let Kobe get frustrated having to carry the load...

Combined with speedy guards, bigs to push Pau around, a non-call hip-check on Kobe every time he drives, and pick and rolls (or pick and pop) all game long... and BINGO, the perfect plan to beat the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: "Flu like symptoms"

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:38 am

Kobe is now #2 in usage behind Carmelo...not good at all. He's starting to revert back to last years Kobe
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