Kobe Discussion: Shutting it down; Puts Lakers FO on blast

Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Finwë on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:08 pm

IMO his constant passing is stopping him from getting into a real scoring rythm. He's overpassing IMO.
I understand the desire to get guys involved but many of those passes were to guys behind the 3pt line who were obviously gonna chuck em up. Didn't work so well after a blistering start (went like 2 for 17 for a stretch!). I'll take the patented Kobe pull-up J from mid-range over a Jamison/MWP 3 all day.
On one occation he had a wide open mid-range shot, he looked hesitant and he missed it. I don't like that, and I think it's a result of not being in a rythm because he's passing too much. We're gonna need Kobe's scoring ability when we face better teams, especially on the road when our road players will have cold stretches like tonight.

I'd like to see him keep this ball movement attitude but when he has a good shot he should take it. That's the approach everyone else is going with, he should do the same.
He also needs to keep going to the post like he was tonight at the start of the game. He posted up on every but 2 possessions (according to a Palmer tweet) to start the game and was very successful, but in the second half he barely did.
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:10 pm

phoenixrisingla wrote:
Weezy wrote:I can't believe people are yelling for him to shoot the ball more now. We've won 4 of 5, we should have won 5 of 5, this is working right now, I say stick with it. I think if Kobe needs to score, he can score, he can get back in that rhythm pretty quick, but the team looks happy how they are playing now, and we're getting 4-6 guys scoring in double figures every single game.


This. He wont shoot 4-13 every night.

Keep it up, we're winning games! :man10:


his 3 point shooting has gone south. We need him to get into rhythm. Im not saying stop passing the ball but hes overpassing. Ive always been on the train that this facilitator crap is not sustainable. Every game, different conditions, different situations, different matchups cant have the same predictable approach. He should go back to doing what he did before faciliate 1st half, then start scoring towards late in 1st half and in 3rd Q to get into a rhythm.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:12 pm

Weezy wrote:I can't believe people are yelling for him to shoot the ball more now. We've won 4 of 5, we should have won 5 of 5, this is working right now, I say stick with it. I think if Kobe needs to score, he can score, he can get back in that rhythm pretty quick, but the team looks happy how they are playing now, and we're getting 4-6 guys scoring in double figures every single game.

Kobe will never learn how to play the game Weez you know that is what people think
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:12 pm

Finwë wrote:I'd like to see him keep this ball movement attitude but when he has a good shot he should take it. That's the approach everyone else is going with, he should do the same.
He also needs to keep going to the post like he was tonight at the start of the game. He posted up on every but 2 possessions (according to a Palmer tweet) to start the game and was very successful, but in the second half he barely did.

It's hard to post in a zone, you end up getting triple teamed basically. You need a system like the Triangle that clears out the side to give you a post up all alone.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Weezy on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:13 pm

Kobe can be a streaky shooter, I'd rather if he's going to have an off night he goes 4-13 instead of starting to force it and go 6-20 or something. I agree I'd like to see him attack the basket more at the end of a game like this when we need some scoring, and I hate to be this guy, but even when he does he doesn't get a lot of calls so there's a slim chance that is in his mind too. I understand that people want Kobe to find a perfect balance, but perfect balance is just not that easy, or there would be a lot more guys throughout history that would have played that way. Only so many guys have ever been good at finding a perfect balance, and I think Kobe is finding a pretty good balance considering he is not a PG.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Finwë on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:26 pm

I'm not saying he needs to find "perfect balance" or something. I'm just saying he should take the same approach everyone else seems to be going with and MDA is advocating "if you have a good shot, take it". He's passing up very good looks sometimes so that MWP or Clark or Jamison can take a 3... We shot like 30 3s tonight, and many came from Kobe's passes.
If he pulled back a little from those passes and took the shots he's made easily his whole career I'm sure we're in an even better spot.
Overpassing can hurt you because you're going to guys who are very inconsistent (like MWP, Jamison, Meeks and Blake) and also negatively affects your scoring rythm. These were the Twolves who'd lost 10 of the last 11, and were without Love, Budinger & Roy, and we still struggled to finish them off. That's because we were counting on inconsistent shooters to consistently make their shots. Not gonna happen. They went nuts in the first half and were terrible in the 2nd. And a 29pt lead became a 4pt one. He tried to hit some shots in order to better hold on to the lead, but his shot looked off. He looked hesitant and ineffective, and outside of that offensive rebound he wasn't able to score. We still won, but I'm not sure the result's the same against better teams
Last edited by Finwë on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby King of Clutch on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:26 pm

Has anybody thought about how hard this change has been on kobe bryant? I mean sure he loves winning. But I just wonder how much fun he's having winning this way. We know how much he loves to score. 17 years a scorer. SEVENTEEN! This is probably the biggest sacrifice kobe has had to do over his entire career. It's just sad that the majority view is that kobe can't score alot if we want to win. I still think our defense has MUCH more to do with whether we win or not.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby King of Clutch on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:30 pm

Its also more sad that he's forced into a playmakers role when we all know that he's still one of the top scorers in the league. There aren't many years like that left in his belt. Yet he has to cut it short, for the team. Very unselfish for "the most selfish player in the league".
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby BuzzerBeater on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:32 pm

IMO he will shoot more often and will pass less too, this new way is adjusting and wins are coming.

There are 4-6 players with nice stats, last year we have only Kobe and he couldnt do the whole job.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:32 pm

What Kobe is doing is something I've NEVER EVER SEEN in ANY sport. Nobody, after playin a certain way for 17 years, has had to make an adjustment like Kobe has. In my opinion, IF the Lakers have a major turnaround playing this way with Kobe facilitating, he needs to seriously get some recognition for MVP. Not saying he SHOULD be MVP, but it's just iNSANE what he's doing. He's basically become Magic Johnson. His numbers are across the board. I don't know how he's able to make this adjustment this late in this career....

When Kobe retires, people will truly appreciate just how great he was....he is making a huge sacrifice right now (scoring), and so far its working.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:33 pm

14-7 when Kobe has 6 + assists. 6-19 when 5 or fewer
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Weezy on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:34 pm

Finwe, I understand that overpassing is not good, but this team seems to NEED Kobe to be unselfish to the extreme to work. If he doesn't do this guys stand around, defensive effort seems to go down, this is working right now, I still say roll with it until it doesn't. Thing is, Kobe always feels he has a good shot, an open shot for him is single coverage lol. So if he approaches the same as everyone else and shoots when open we'll be right back where we were, guys complaining about Kobe shooting too much. This team seems to need him to overpass, if that makes sense.

And king_of_clutch I agree, this must be tough for Kobe as it is for everyone else sacrificing. It shows he wants to win though above all else, because as I said the other day he is hurting himself as far as climbing the all time scoring list goes right now. If Kobe can do this though, others can't complain about not getting theirs, so to me it's Kobe setting a good example, I can't fault that. Maybe he is overpassing, but we're winning, that's all that matters to me right now.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby JLaker17 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:35 pm

Its really sad though to see a guy like Kobe making HUGE sacrifices, and then hearing others complain about lack of a few touches, or minutes.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Finwë on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:35 pm

King of Clutch wrote:Has anybody thought about how hard this change has been on kobe bryant? I mean sure he loves winning. But I just wonder how much fun he's having winning this way. We know how much he loves to score. 17 years a scorer. SEVENTEEN! This is probably the biggest sacrifice kobe has had to do over his entire career. It's just sad that the majority view is that kobe can't score alot if we want to win. I still think our defense has MUCH more to do with whether we win or not.

Our D has been the key issue all along. Many were suggesting that better ball movement on O would help our D (guys get in synch, become more engaged, etc), and that's a valid concept, but it still isn't enough to fix some fundamental issues we have on that end (system, athleticism, communication, understanding -chemistry-, mental lapses, etc)
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Finwë on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:43 pm

Weezy wrote:Finwe, I understand that overpassing is not good, but this team seems to NEED Kobe to be unselfish to the extreme to work. If he doesn't do this guys stand around, defensive effort seems to go down, this is working right now, I still say roll with it until it doesn't. Thing is, Kobe always feels he has a good shot, an open shot for him is single coverage lol. So if he approaches the same as everyone else and shoots when open we'll be right back where we were, guys complaining about Kobe shooting too much. This team seems to need him to overpass, if that makes sense.

And king_of_clutch I agree, this must be tough for Kobe as it is for everyone else sacrificing. It shows he wants to win though above all else, because as I said the other day he is hurting himself as far as climbing the all time scoring list goes right now. If Kobe can do this though, others can't complain about not getting theirs, so to me it's Kobe setting a good example, I can't fault that. Maybe he is overpassing, but we're winning, that's all that matters to me right now.

Winning is all that matters, you are right. I'm not saying we should go away from this winning formula. I'm merely suggesting that we could improve the formula so it's more solid and we're safer against better teams (and on the road). I'm just saying, Kobe needs to keep finding guys, but he should try to recognize that some guys will just chuck 3s, and in those occations maybe he should take the open shot himself. That's all
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Armani on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:44 pm

The Rock wrote:14-7 when Kobe has 6 + assists. 6-19 when 5 or fewer


This is pretty telling, no matter what. Let him keep passing. I understand he's always shot it before to bring us back into games, but at this point in his career, he hasn't done brought us back all too often... might as well keep working within the O and see if the teammates get going. 4-1. Keep going strong.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby trodgers on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:47 pm

Tell me again how Pau has had to adapt his game more than Kobe this season.

Last five: 18.6 points, 11.2 assists, 8.6 rebounds
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby BuzzerBeater on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:49 pm

FabFourLakers wrote:What Kobe is doing is something I've NEVER EVER SEEN in ANY sport. Nobody, after playin a certain way for 17 years, has had to make an adjustment like Kobe has. In my opinion, IF the Lakers have a major turnaround playing this way with Kobe facilitating, he needs to seriously get some recognition for MVP. Not saying he SHOULD be MVP, but it's just iNSANE what he's doing. He's basically become Magic Johnson. His numbers are across the board. I don't know how he's able to make this adjustment this late in this career....

When Kobe retires, people will truly appreciate just how great he was....he is making a huge sacrifice right now (scoring), and so far its working.


Hes doing awesome for me. Who else changed this way with success? :jam2:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Armani on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:51 pm

trodgers wrote:Tell me again how Pau has had to adapt his game more than Kobe this season.

Last five: 18.6 points, 11.2 assists, 8.6 rebounds


Man, that stat line is just absurd. There it is for the LeBron stat lovers who said he was more of an all round player than Kobe.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Weezy on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:52 pm

Finwë wrote:
Weezy wrote:Finwe, I understand that overpassing is not good, but this team seems to NEED Kobe to be unselfish to the extreme to work. If he doesn't do this guys stand around, defensive effort seems to go down, this is working right now, I still say roll with it until it doesn't. Thing is, Kobe always feels he has a good shot, an open shot for him is single coverage lol. So if he approaches the same as everyone else and shoots when open we'll be right back where we were, guys complaining about Kobe shooting too much. This team seems to need him to overpass, if that makes sense.

And king_of_clutch I agree, this must be tough for Kobe as it is for everyone else sacrificing. It shows he wants to win though above all else, because as I said the other day he is hurting himself as far as climbing the all time scoring list goes right now. If Kobe can do this though, others can't complain about not getting theirs, so to me it's Kobe setting a good example, I can't fault that. Maybe he is overpassing, but we're winning, that's all that matters to me right now.

Winning is all that matters, you are right. I'm not saying we should go away from this winning formula. I'm merely suggesting that we could improve the formula so it's more solid and we're safer against better teams (and on the road). I'm just saying, Kobe needs to keep finding guys, but he should try to recognize that some guys will just chuck 3s, and in those occations maybe he should take the open shot himself. That's all


No, I get what you're saying and I agree, he could shoot just a little more. That said, if he's hitting guys for open 3s, that most likely means they're open because Kobe is doubled by drawing the defense, not open himself to take the shot. For Kobe to be open, someone has to create a shot for him, only Nash seems capable of that. That's why Kobe's shots are almost always not open, he has to create his own off some dribbles or a fadeaway
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby BuzzerBeater on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:53 pm

trodgers wrote:Tell me again how Pau has had to adapt his game more than Kobe this season.

Last five: 18.6 points, 11.2 assists, 8.6 rebounds


Maybe this pic would help...

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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby trodgers on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:55 pm

^ I'm not saying it's helping, but suddenly life seems so much better.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:58 pm

I think Kobe had a talk with Jerry West...I think West went from being a prototypical shooting guard to Point guard to accomodate Gail Goodrich even though Jerry was a better scorer than him.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby lotus on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:08 pm

Seems to me like he's going to burn out in this facilitator role.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:10 pm

lotus wrote:Seems to me like he's going to burn out in this facilitator role.


:man3:
How is he going to burn out playing less minutes and shooting less?
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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