Kobe Discussion: shark swimming / #prayforthesharks (664)

lotus wrote:Seems to me like he's going to burn out in this facilitator role.

How is he going to burn out playing less minutes and shooting less?

Armani wrote:

trodgers wrote:Tell me again how Pau has had to adapt his game more than Kobe this season.

Last five: 18.6 points, 11.2 assists, 8.6 rebounds

Man, that stat line is just absurd. There it is for the LeBron stat lovers who said he was more of an all round player than Kobe.

Kobes playing great, but let's not be ridiculous, it's been 5 games. Rondo had better averages for 14 games in the playoffs back in 2009.

So let's not get carried away. Lebron is a better all around player. Had Kobe done this in his youth maybe there'd be a discussion but he didn't because of the triangle and that's that

But Kobe is playing awesome. Showing what it means to be a great player. Being able to adapt

Kobe is the better all around player...hes just torching everyone in the post...Point guards to small forwards. Guys faster, stronger or longer than him it doesnt matter. Thats a big man's game and hes killing that. Gotta consider that

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

lotus wrote:Seems to me like he's going to burn out in this facilitator role.

How is he going to burn out playing less minutes and shooting less?

He just looks tired to me.

I didn't bring Lebron into the thread. Lebron has proven to be a better all around player his whole career. Kobe in his youth was a better scorer than Lebron will ever be, and if I was starting a franchise and I had a 23 year old version of both available I'd take Kobe.

But Lebron is a better passer, rebounder, defender(now), finisher and he's still a hell of a scorer

Aka better all around player

last stand wrote:I didn't bring Lebron into the thread. Lebron has proven to be a better all around player his whole career. Kobe in his youth was a better scorer than Lebron will ever be, and if I was starting a franchise and I had a 23 year old version of both available I'd take Kobe.

But Lebron is a better passer, rebounder, defender(now), finisher and he's still a hell of a scorer

Aka better all around player

Lebron is NOT a better passer. He just plays the game with that mentality of pass first. And you see what kobe can do when he plays with that mentality as well. Better rebounder I can take, but he is about 2-3 inches taller than bryant. Don't even need to mention scoring. Defense, yes 28 lbj is better than 34 bryant. I would say kobe is the better all around, most complete player. Best post game in the LEAGUE (Yes, kobe is at the top, even when including centers. Stats prove this. For a 6'6" guard. Let that sink in for a moment.), has hook shots, up and unders, deadly fadeaways over both shoulders, floaters, and every other shot in the book. Great passer, as he's proven he can be if he just chooses to be, good rebounder, great defender more so in his prime as to be expected, coupled with being the greatest scorer to play basketball. Which makes all of this even more impressive. Lbj is a PHENOMINAL athlete, who has great passing skills. Not much more, IMO.

It will never be a fair debate/discussion/comparison between LBJ and Kobe. LeBron is way more athletic and just uses his physical abilities to power his game for the most part; Kobe is the exact opposite, where he uses his smarts to play the game to compensate for the physical deficiencies over the years.

If you were, to right now, give both players the same physical talents and abilities, Kobe would eat LBJ alive because of his mentality, IMO.

Ok lets make a vow to stop bringing lbj into this thread people. It has happened way too often.

So predictable...

last stand wrote:

Armani wrote:

trodgers wrote:Tell me again how Pau has had to adapt his game more than Kobe this season.

Last five: 18.6 points, 11.2 assists, 8.6 rebounds

Man, that stat line is just absurd. There it is for the LeBron stat lovers who said he was more of an all round player than Kobe.

Kobes playing great, but let's not be ridiculous, it's been 5 games. Rondo had better averages for 14 games in the playoffs back in 2009.

So let's not get carried away. Lebron is a better all around player. Had Kobe done this in his youth maybe there'd be a discussion but he didn't because of the triangle and that's that

But Kobe is playing awesome. Showing what it means to be a great player. Being able to adapt

What on earth are you talking about?

i know you guys will attack me and hate me for that . but the kobe of late i don t like and i don t want to see espicially in the games vs new orleans, phoenix and minnesota. all his facilitating costs his shooting rhytmn.he doesn t even want to shoot when he has a open look or wide open layup . he becomes a passhog. he has no rhytmn at all and in close games that formula will not win many games for us when you kicking the ball for a mwp for a jacked up long shot for example . he has to find a balance between passing and scoring. he can t loose his scoring because we need also his scoring. but he only passes ,rebounds and that takes away all his rhytmn or should i say that takes out completely his scoring and this can t be good nor the right formula to win close games.once again he has to find balance between passing and scoring . a only pass kobe will not be the solution for the lakers to win many games espoicially when the games are close at the end.

Finwë wrote:IMO his constant passing is stopping him from getting into a real scoring rythm. He's overpassing IMO.
I understand the desire to get guys involved but many of those passes were to guys behind the 3pt line who were obviously gonna chuck em up. Didn't work so well after a blistering start (went like 2 for 17 for a stretch!). I'll take the patented Kobe pull-up J from mid-range over a Jamison/MWP 3 all day.
On one occation he had a wide open mid-range shot, he looked hesitant and he missed it. I don't like that, and I think it's a result of not being in a rythm because he's passing too much. We're gonna need Kobe's scoring ability when we face better teams, especially on the road when our road players will have cold stretches like tonight.

I'd like to see him keep this ball movement attitude but when he has a good shot he should take it. That's the approach everyone else is going with, he should do the same.
He also needs to keep going to the post like he was tonight at the start of the game. He posted up on every but 2 possessions (according to a Palmer tweet) to start the game and was very successful, but in the second half he barely did.

totally agree

kobebryant248 wrote:i know you guys will attack me and hate me for that . but the kobe of late i don t like and i don t want to see espicially in the games vs new orleans, phoenix and minnesota. all his facilitating costs his shooting rhytmn.he doesn t even want to shoot when he has a open look or wide open layup . he becomes a passhog. he has no rhytmn at all and in close games that formula will not win many games for us when you kicking the ball for a mwp for a jacked up long shot for example . he has to find a balance between passing and scoring. he can t loose his scoring because we need also his scoring. but he only passes ,rebounds and that takes away all his rhytmn or should i say that takes out completely his scoring and this can t be good nor the right formula to win close games.once again he has to find balance between passing and scoring . a only pass kobe will not be the solution for the lakers to win many games espoicially when the games are close at the end.

I'd rather see a scoring Kobe as well, but the fact of the matter is, we are 4-1 (5-0 if Dwight didn't get hurt in the Suns game) with Kobe playing this way.

Your points are valid, but Kobe can't close games if we are getting blown out. So eff his scoring rhythm. Stacking up wins is our priority right now, and quite frankly, nothing else really matters. Kobe will have to play this way at least until we are a 7th or 8th seed. In the meantime, he should continue this style, all while building team chemistry. It's really a win-win situation for us.

Finding a balance between Kobe's scoring/passing could come once we are comfortably in playoff position.

King of Clutch wrote:

last stand wrote:I didn't bring Lebron into the thread. Lebron has proven to be a better all around player his whole career. Kobe in his youth was a better scorer than Lebron will ever be, and if I was starting a franchise and I had a 23 year old version of both available I'd take Kobe.

But Lebron is a better passer, rebounder, defender(now), finisher and he's still a hell of a scorer

Aka better all around player

Lebron is NOT a better passer. He just plays the game with that mentality of pass first. And you see what kobe can do when he plays with that mentality as well. Better rebounder I can take, but he is about 2-3 inches taller than bryant. Don't even need to mention scoring. Defense, yes 28 lbj is better than 34 bryant. I would say kobe is the better all around, most complete player. Best post game in the LEAGUE (Yes, kobe is at the top, even when including centers. Stats prove this. For a 6'6" guard. Let that sink in for a moment.), has hook shots, up and unders, deadly fadeaways over both shoulders, floaters, and every other shot in the book. Great passer, as he's proven he can be if he just chooses to be, good rebounder, great defender more so in his prime as to be expected, coupled with being the greatest scorer to play basketball. Which makes all of this even more impressive. Lbj is a PHENOMINAL athlete, who has great passing skills. Not much more, IMO.

No way LeBron is natural passer like point guard ... he know exactly when to pass and when to shoot ... Kobe forces himself ... just last game vs. Minnesota ... he drove past the defender and was ready for uncontested lay up but passed it to a 3pt line for contested jumper ... that was just bad play, redundant pass ... LeBron is better passer there is no question about that

Because LeBron would never do that. He'd NEVER force a pass.

You all are so intent on being objective that you fail to think critically. LeBron is a more natural passer because he wants to pass more than shoot. That doesn't mean he's better at it, it just means he's more apt to do it. Kobe has always been a terrific passer, he's just never done it because he's more apt to shoot.

well we are still missing two guys in the Hate kobe thread.
Maybe the ate their words

LBJ is a pass first fellow because he is afraid.\
Try to recall the time he passed when the game was on the line
What won them the finals was not LBJ taking over it was a team defense that stopped Durant.
And Westbrook chucking

Ummm, Kobe is following Chandler Parsons on twitter What's up with that :D
Maybe we are sending Metta back to Houston and bringing Chandler in LA

trodgers wrote:

last stand wrote:

Armani wrote:

trodgers wrote:Tell me again how Pau has had to adapt his game more than Kobe this season.

Last five: 18.6 points, 11.2 assists, 8.6 rebounds

Man, that stat line is just absurd. There it is for the LeBron stat lovers who said he was more of an all round player than Kobe.

Kobes playing great, but let's not be ridiculous, it's been 5 games. Rondo had better averages for 14 games in the playoffs back in 2009.

So let's not get carried away. Lebron is a better all around player. Had Kobe done this in his youth maybe there'd be a discussion but he didn't because of the triangle and that's that

But Kobe is playing awesome. Showing what it means to be a great player. Being able to adapt

What on earth are you talking about?

He said Kobe is a better all around player because of these past 5 games, I said its ridiculous to make that assumption or else a guy like rondo can make the claim as well. Simple

Uncle Drew wrote:Ummm, Kobe is following Chandler Parsons on twitter What's up with that :D
Maybe we are sending Metta back to Houston and bringing Chandler in LA

Kobe likes CP's game and attitude.

Uncle Drew wrote:Ummm, Kobe is following Chandler Parsons on twitter What's up with that :D
Maybe we are sending Metta back to Houston and bringing Chandler in LA

Parsons + Patterson for Pau

therealdeal wrote:Because LeBron would never do that. He'd NEVER force a pass.

You all are so intent on being objective that you fail to think critically. LeBron is a more natural passer because he wants to pass more than shoot. That doesn't mean he's better at it, it just means he's more apt to do it. Kobe has always been a terrific passer, he's just never done it because he's more apt to shoot.

Who said Lebron wouldn't force the pass. Noone is intent on being objective. I watch more than laker basketball thanks to my Nba league pass broadband. And on top of that ive watched enough of Lebron over his entire career and Kobe over his entire career to know that they are different players. One player prides himself on an all around game, the other prides himself on being the leagues deadliest scorer in NBA history. Part of being all around is mindset. The part people seem to ignore. Kobe has never shown a desire to sacrifice scoring to be a consistent facilitator. And that's been a successful model for him with 5 rings. Now he's matured and realizes all of the pouters on this team didn't want to watch Kobe score so he's bitten the bullet and become a facilitator.

But Lebron is still better at it. Always will be. Lebron can do this and put up 30+ points and he does it every game, naturally. Kobe could have possibly done it(emphasis on possibly considering this is all hypothetical) but it would have been a forced conscious effort.

Lebron could put up 60+, 70+ points in a game. He has the talent, but he won't because he's not wired that way. Kobe could have done this his whole career, he has the talent but he's not wired that way.

People are so caught up in hyperbole these past 5 games and it's ridiculous. Kobe is almost averaging a triple double for 5 games, must mean he could have done it for 17 years. No he couldn't have, he's not wired that way. His natural instinct will always be to score.

Seems like some fans in here aren't content unless everyone believes them that Kobe is just the best ever at everything. Other fans are content knowing that he's history's most versatile and deadly scorer with 5 rings making him one of the most accomplished winners. But no, with 5 games I now have my evidence that he's a better passer than Lebron as well. Ridiculous

King of Clutch wrote:

last stand wrote:I didn't bring Lebron into the thread. Lebron has proven to be a better all around player his whole career. Kobe in his youth was a better scorer than Lebron will ever be, and if I was starting a franchise and I had a 23 year old version of both available I'd take Kobe.

But Lebron is a better passer, rebounder, defender(now), finisher and he's still a hell of a scorer

Aka better all around player

Lebron is NOT a better passer. He just plays the game with that mentality of pass first. And you see what kobe can do when he plays with that mentality as well. Better rebounder I can take, but he is about 2-3 inches taller than bryant. Don't even need to mention scoring. Defense, yes 28 lbj is better than 34 bryant. I would say kobe is the better all around, most complete player. Best post game in the LEAGUE (Yes, kobe is at the top, even when including centers. Stats prove this. For a 6'6" guard. Let that sink in for a moment.), has hook shots, up and unders, deadly fadeaways over both shoulders, floaters, and every other shot in the book. Great passer, as he's proven he can be if he just chooses to be, good rebounder, great defender more so in his prime as to be expected, coupled with being the greatest scorer to play basketball. Which makes all of this even more impressive. Lbj is a PHENOMINAL athlete, who has great passing skills. Not much more, IMO.

You do know who had the leagues statistical best post game last season right?
You do know who was in the running for DPOY last year and arguably should have won the award?
You do know that neither Kobe or Lebron really have the best post game despite what stats say or said? I'd still take tim Duncan in the post over either guy.

People who don't watch Lebron enough revert to the phenomenal athlete excuse which is a cop out, there are better athletes in the NBA than Lebron (now not before when Lebron was younger). Yet I don't see anyone putting up anything close to his statistics. Nor do I see anyone matching his historical efficiency.

27ppg 8rpg 7apg shooting 55% and 40% from 3, oh with under 3 TOs a game. Kobe's my favorite player of all time, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend he's better than everyone at everything. I swear if Kobe shot 95% free throws for 5 games people would claim he's a better free throw shooter than nash

Kobe can't go back into scoring mode..The Nash/Dwight "pick & roll" that we were running to start every possession was terrible.. Our offense has looked better because Kobe is more of a threat to score 1 on 1, so the opponent helps on him more than Nash, & guys are able to get open as the defense breaks down.