Kobe Discussion: Klapper video, possible 6 months (646)

The Rock wrote:" Everyone on the team is playing with an "if you have a good shot, take it" mentality, I'm simply saying Kobe should do the same. "

^ that is all

you don't have to worry about Kobe taking a "good shot, when there is one" IMO.

Do I want Kobe to finish better? yes. So in a sense I see where you are coming from. But really, IMO if you want the Lakers to be great, Kobe needs to figure it out. He needs to be able to balance it out. He has never in his career been able to balance out shooting and passing effectively. Either shooting too much or passing too much rather than reading the defense (which he claims like every 3 games at least once during the past 17 years).

Kobe has never tried to "take what the defense gives him". He has always made his mind up before the game what he is looking to do (pass in the first half, shoot in the second half, shoot all game long, pass all game long, pass in the first and 3rd quarter and shoot in the second and fourth etc.).

This is Kobe's problem to figure out rather than anybody else's...guys like Ray Allen or Steve Nash are known clutch performers who don't shoot much either during the game.

Does Kobe overpass right now? certainly there are situations where he does. But Kobe overpassing a few times is better than Kobe missing a few fallaways that result in transition defense for the Lakers. If the Lakers play right, there won't be that "clutch" situation at all and Kobe would be on the bench. For us to allow the Pistons to come back was the issue and has been in the last few games and thats rather a collective collapse rather than Kobe not being in rhythem to stop the bleeing.

You can't sacrifice chemistry and screw Gasol, Nash and Howard just for Kobe to be clutch if there is a clutch situation. Bottom line is this team with this personell isn't going to accept Kobe jacking up shots and I can't blame them. I don't expect Kobe to have 11 assists a game but average around 7 should definitely be possibe. It isn't so much keeping others happy but keeping them interested and not watch Kobe go to work 1 on 5. He is 34, getting closer to 35. You can't expect the same Kobe as 8 years ago.

young buck

Maluco Beleza wrote:what kobe is doing right now is fine. He just needs to know when to take a shot when it is there and not pass it up just to prove that he can pass. The true fans know he can pass with the best of them in the history of the game.

now you are defending him after you punished him numerous time this season ?

Not sure if that has been posted,

Kobe says he has only 1-year left of realistically playing

There was a time when we would talk regularly and with great respect. And there was a time when we would not, replaced later by a lot of growling and confrontation.

The shift continues, the Lakers at their worst but Kobe at his best. And so what’s wrong with him? I begin.

“I find myself talking sometimes and I can’t believe what I just said,” he says with a hearty laugh. “Realistically I have only one year left, so I’m trying to enjoy myself.”

LINK

Kobe post game interview, " I made all the same plays, we just didn't make shots", thank you. Gladly though, he keeps sticking with it.

trodgers wrote:

last stand wrote:

trodgers wrote:
I'm guilty of it as well in some aspects but whatever better to end the argument here

Condescension? Read back through the conversation. If you can tell me that you're trying to really get at the truth of the matter, as opposed to showing that what you said wasn't reactionary, short-sighted, and, strictly speaking, wrong, then I'll offer an apology. Obviously I would have missed something if that were all true. As I see it, you're painting yourself in a very negative light right now.

so what the original post said wasn't that kobe is a better all around player than lebron, and that the recent 5 game stretch was proof of that.

if it really wasn't saying that, and i completely misread that original post then yes, i am wrong for taking it in another direction, but when i read the post that's what i see

I think it was absolutely saying that Kobe is a better all-around player than LeBron, and this five game stretch is proof that Kobe plays a certain way; and if he plays a different way (like he has been), his numbers look very different. And, in fact, he's passing at an elite level.

The reason that changing one's style of play matter is because of the following:
1. Kobe plays a certain way.
2. Kobe has changed his role, showcasing skills that were not used previously.
3. Rondo did not change his game when he posted particular numbers; he showed nothing new in doing that.

I took it, honestly, that the poster was saying this: "I've always thought Kobe could do these things if he wanted to. He has now been asked to do it. He has responded in a way that SHOULD blow everyone away. So, that old criticism was actually misplaced. That evidence no longer counts against Kobe."

Thank you for the explanation. I guess my only confusion is why is it that Kobe who has done this for 5 games, while Lebron has done it his whole career the better all around player

dwighthowardsdad wrote:

KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing
Kobe said last play of first half worked b/c Clark forgot the play before suddenly remembering to go to the rim: "He faked everybody out."

classic ... I love Earl

The Rock wrote:This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK. Thats Nash's job. Kobe's job is to put the ball in the hole. Hes out of rhythm and hes overpassing to dudes who are not consistent scorers. Pau squandered so many open shots in the 4th today especially in the paint. Enough is enough. 4 straight blown leads

We'd be 1-5 instead of 5-1 the last 6 games if Kobe didn't change the way he plays. kobe changing his game is the reason why we've 5-1 the last 6.

The Rock wrote:" Everyone on the team is playing with an "if you have a good shot, take it" mentality, I'm simply saying Kobe should do the same. "

^ that is all

That's not what you said at all. What you said was that Kobe passing first doesn't work.

idiots who say kobe facilitating "magic mamba" mode doesnt work. it obviously does. the thing is is that both kobe and nash are excellent passers and the D now has to respect both on shooting and passing. it just makes it more difficult for opposing teams. normally theyd know what nash was gunna do in driving and passing and kobe in driving and shooting or always shooting.

kobe now passes alot sometimes out of his way giving up an open jumper (which may seem dumb, but in fact helps him and the team even more bc hes unpredictable and the d has to chose), and now nash is attacking to score or being used as a spot up which seems like hes getting more open looks bc no team has even had to guard nash as a spot up in his suns days.

every game kobe isnt gunna have 10+ assists...but honestly between him and nash one of them will. 29 points and 15 assists between the 2 of them. kobe didnt shoot too well but i feel this new type of play from both of them is working and the 5-1 (which should have been 6-0) so far proves it.

they'll only get better at it and i feel kobe sacrificing his scoring is a huge chemistry team booster if anything. so win or lose they gotta stick with this. lots of smiles throughout the game on the bench and looked more like a team than ever. everyone is playing together and sharing the ball and are getting a little better on D. kobe sacrificing a huge part of his game which has been his staple for his entire successful career and now facilitating at a league leading level (small sample but still no doubt he could do it if he wanted to from the begining of the season) is only gunna help this team win and grow.

Juronimo wrote:

The Rock wrote:This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK. Thats Nash's job. Kobe's job is to put the ball in the hole. Hes out of rhythm and hes overpassing to dudes who are not consistent scorers. Pau squandered so many open shots in the 4th today especially in the paint. Enough is enough. 4 straight blown leads

We'd be 1-5 instead of 5-1 the last 6 games if Kobe didn't change the way he plays. kobe changing his game is the reason why we've 5-1 the last 6.

Nope I think its the competition we're facing mostly. We finished 2012 end of DEC winning 5 of 6. So what we did before does work.

I just dont like putting the ball in Gasol and MWP or Clark's hands late in games. Nash, Im fine. Rest, Nope

therealdeal wrote:

The Rock wrote:" Everyone on the team is playing with an "if you have a good shot, take it" mentality, I'm simply saying Kobe should do the same. "

^ that is all

That's not what you said at all. What you said was that Kobe passing first doesn't work.

What Finwe said was right. Hes passing up shot opportunities in spots on the floor that are his comfort spots while being 1 on 1. I want him to facilitate dont get me wrong but dont over do it and do it while completely not loking for your shot at all

Kobe also hasn't logged more than 38 minutes since the Chicago game so his minutes are down slightly as well. When we build big leads he doesn't have to stay out there as much.

The Rock wrote:

Juronimo wrote:

The Rock wrote:This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK. Thats Nash's job. Kobe's job is to put the ball in the hole. Hes out of rhythm and hes overpassing to dudes who are not consistent scorers. Pau squandered so many open shots in the 4th today especially in the paint. Enough is enough. 4 straight blown leads

We'd be 1-5 instead of 5-1 the last 6 games if Kobe didn't change the way he plays. kobe changing his game is the reason why we've 5-1 the last 6.

Nope I think its the competition we're facing mostly. We finished 2012 end of DEC winning 5 of 6. So what we did before does work.

I just dont like putting the ball in Gasol and MWP or Clark's hands late in games. Nash, Im fine. Rest, Nope

I just can't agree with this type of thinking. This is a team game, at some point of we hope to win a championship the ball WILL end up in these players hands late in games deep in the playoffs. If they aren't trusted in now, if they don't build confidence at that time in games now, how can they have it or perform when the time comes in the playoffs? Yes you want the ball in Kobe or Nash's hands, but other guys need to take shots. Role players have always hit big shots for is late in games on the way to titles, Fisher, Ariza, Shannon, MWP, these guys all hit big shots. Pau's not a role player but he's also been clutch in the playoffs before, even won games with baskets (OKC game 6 cleanup of Kobe airball is one example).

As for this "Kobe facilitator crap", it won him an MVP in 08, and it won us a title in '09, because even though he was still scoring he was also running the whole show out there. He will find a balance, this particular level of facilitating is a new thing for him, give it time and he will find the scoring balance with it in time I'm sure of it. In the meantime we are winning, doesn't matter the competition, it's wins we desperately need.

Defense and activity, which are in a way linked, is what gets us wins. I understand what the rock is saying about this not being the reason why we're winning, but I don't agree with his statement of it "doesn't work". Kobe has been in this league for 17 years. He has won 5 championships playing the exact same way. One would be completely idiotic to think that the same can't be done with this star studded team. Kobe is not the problem. He wasn't the problem when we won 3 chips in a row in the early 2000s, and he wasn't the problem when we went to the finals 3 straight times starting in 08.

The problem isn't kobe, its the players surrounding him this time around. As it has been stated before, the team needs to be fed like babies in order to be active both offensively and defensively. Back in those 3 straight trips to the finals from 08-10, that was NOT the case. Players like vujacic, walton, farmar, and odom WANTED to win a championship very badly.They did enough losing. In the early 2000s, you had players like shaq, horry, fox n fish oozing with confidence. Thus they didn't need to be fed to become active on both ends. Thats not the case with this team. This roster in particular is filled with alot of mentally weak players who need to be GIVEN confidence. In order to play up to their potential. So in a way, kobe's passing isn't really whats making us win. Its the activity players are getting from it that is allowing us to play at a higher level on both ends. If they could somehow keep this activity up with kobe playing the scorers role, we would be just as, if not more dangerous. But as I said, I don't see the players being able to do that on their own.

Kobe isn't 'the problem' but you can't deny that although he is still hugely talented and skilled and capable, the instances where he just can't seem to shoot right, or when he becomes turnover prone, or when he slacks off on defense... those instances have become more frequent and they stand out more precisely because the team around him doesn't seem to pick up the slack when they need to.

Forward Three wrote:Kobe isn't 'the problem' but you can't deny that although he is still hugely talented and skilled and capable, the instances where he just can't seem to shoot right, or when he becomes turnover prone, or when he slacks off on defense... those instances have become more frequent and they stand out more precisely because the team around him doesn't seem to pick up the slack when they need to.

lol um yeah, i'd question if he was human if he didn't. Happens to every player. He's not perfect.

I thought Kobe dished the rock like he has been. He just wasn't seeing as many double coverages today. Unfortunately, he was our of rhythm offensively or just plain cold from outside.

The Rock wrote:Im not saying stop passing the ball but be judicious about it. Look to score in one on one situations and then pass the ball to open man. Hes overpassing right now, Pau squandered so many open shots in the paint late in the 4th. Our margin of error will get slimmer when Dwight returns and he's gonna be forced to go to the FT line. How are we gonna hold onto the leads then?

I still think the reason we're 5-1 or whatever is because of the competition we're facing and not our style of play. This is fools gold.

Yea the Thunder are definitely a scrub team, good thing we played Kobe ball vs them as well or we would have lost...oh wait...

If its not broken there's no need to fix it, you're acting as if we beat all those teams with ease this season anyway. What Kobe is doing is getting us Ws at the end of the day & even Ws without our main interior defender. You want to watch Kobe do well instead of the team & that just wasn't working at all this season so there's no need to go back to that.

GoldenKnight wrote:

The Rock wrote:Im not saying stop passing the ball but be judicious about it. Look to score in one on one situations and then pass the ball to open man. Hes overpassing right now, Pau squandered so many open shots in the paint late in the 4th. Our margin of error will get slimmer when Dwight returns and he's gonna be forced to go to the FT line. How are we gonna hold onto the leads then?

I still think the reason we're 5-1 or whatever is because of the competition we're facing and not our style of play. This is fools gold.

Yea the Thunder are definitely a scrub team, good thing we played Kobe ball vs them as well or we would have lost...oh wait...

If its not broken there's no need to fix it, you're acting as if we beat all those teams with ease this season anyway. What Kobe is doing is getting us Ws at the end of the day & even Ws without our main interior defender. You want to watch Kobe do well instead of the team & that just wasn't working at all this season so there's no need to go back to that.

Lol to be fair, our defense wasn't working either. I still think thats the biggest difference between now and back then. We were giving up layups with ease. It was horrible. Remember that knicks game when carmelo had about 30 at the half? Lol yeah, its crazy to see how far we've come.

I love the way Kobe's been playing last 6 games or so..not really forcing it..he just missed some today so he gets a pass from me..didn't really force the issue today..and his minutes are down, big +++++++

Keep getting whole team involved and shooting less.

odom1year wrote:Keep getting whole team involved and shooting less.

He shot 20 times today, I think you are forgetting that you need to criticize him.

I can't get enough of that Kobe dunk. Steal the ball, run down, then dunk it on the guy you stole it from. He still has hops.