Kobe Bryant Discussion: Reason for Lakers downfall?

Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:53 am

Kobe always finds some kind of extra motivation going into the post season. That's why I don't think he too much cares about regular season individual praise as much as fans do, he only cares about the big prize in the end.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:51 am

I dunno how this man does it...this is why i really relaly really hope we make the playoffs....just to see what Kobe can do as a lower seeded team....i haven't been this excited since maybe the Kobe prime years when he played with Smush and Kwame....just the feeling of being an underdog...its different from obviously being expected to win....but its just more exciting and the fact that everyone has counted us out already.... :jam2:
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby LakeShow85 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:03 am

Kobe is putting up similar numbers to ESPN's Golden Child, but he won't be getting credit as usual. :bang:
If it doesn't matter who wins then why do they keep score?
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby Magic Skywalker on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:09 am

Ding: Why Kobe shouldn't retire anytime soon

Kevin Ding column: Based on his estimate, Lakers star Kobe Bryant could be nearing retirement by this time next year, and what a terrible waste that would be.

- See more at: http://www.ocregister.com/sports/bryant ... gWD0n.dpuf

LOS ANGELES – Game 1,440 was not unlike the others.
The Lakers beat the Minnesota Timberwolves on Thursday night. Counting the playoffs, it was Kobe Bryant's 1,440th NBA game.

And Bryant was great again.

Not just pretty good. Not just flashes of greatness.

Great.

Still great.

Artfully, inspirationally, intensely, winningly great.

So great ... and yet not particularly greater than he was in Dallas a few days back, or the game before that with 29 after halftime to beat Portland, or when he twice had 14 assists in back-to-back victories over Utah and Oklahoma City in late January, or the time his fanatical prep work and relentless chasing left Brandon Jennings certain no one in the history of the game had ever defended a point guard that well (and also had 31 on 12-of-19 shooting and six assists), or all of December with Bryant's 33.8 points, 5.7 rebounds and 4.6 assists across the board higher than he has averaged in any month in any year of his career.

The Lakers' day-to-day struggles have obscured the work of art that Bryant has erected over the past four months with those bent and battered fingers and his usual common-man tools of hard work, fundamentals, dedication and desire.

For someone with a particular interest in advertising, Bryant ought to understand that what he has built is actually more like a billboard – with a sign he cannot, must not, miss.

And it says:

Retirement should not even be on Kobe Bryant's radar.

The legend exists because Bryant has refused to leave bullets in his chamber. And ending his career with so much more gift to be given would be flat-out wrong for a man whose inner underdog spirit has carried him much further than his obvious genetic gifts.
If Bryant is true to himself, he won't retire in a year or two.

"What do you want to be remembered for some day?" Bryant was asked in August via USA Basketball's Facebook page.
"I'd like to be remembered as a person who overachieved," Bryant answered. "I have natural abilities and talent. I would love to be remembered as a person who maximized that potential and did everything he possibly could to see his talent through."
That's what matters far more than the smoothest possible finish to Bryant's wine.

Everything Bryant does these days is framed by his age, as seen by his Benjamin Button references earlier this season and him Tweeting late Thursday night about loving a new nickname he was given: "Vino."

Getting better during his youth was what Bryant expected and demanded of himself; getting better with age is what a more mature palate truly savors.

And Bryant is enjoying it. He said Sunday in Dallas that he is enjoying this "more than ever." He is pushing back – only after the proper stretching given his age – against Father Time the very same way he has insisted on beating every doctor's recovery timetable for every injury he has ever had.

But Bryant, 34, is getting pretty specific with his retirement estimate. His contract expires after next season. He said recently about his retirement plans: "I'll be 35, 36 years old. I'm not just going to sit and do nothing."

Bryant said before the season he knew what his next career might be, but he wasn't ready to share it publicly. Whatever it is, Wright Thompson's stirring portrayal of Michael Jordan's unsatisfying retired life for ESPN The Magazine – "Man, I wish I was playing right now. I would give up everything now to go back and play the game of basketball" – looms as further reminder that Bryant had better not sell his career short.

"He has the gift and the curse of having gone first," Bryant said. "I have the gift and the curse of having gone second. I get a chance to watch and learn from things that he's done. The good and the bad."
Bryant also feels Jordan is not his equal in one interesting sense.

"M.J. retired a couple of times. Just 'cause it's a lot. It's a lot," Bryant said before this season. "I mean, I've been playing 17 years straight. That's a long run, not taking any breaks."

And there Bryant was at a largely deserted Staples Center on Thursday, on the floor three hours before game time, just doin' work. It was the Lakers' only game in a five-day span, which to many would've meant a chance to do less – and to Bryant was a mandate to do more.

Nuggets coach George Karl had it right when he said the other day about Bryant: "Mentally, if he were to lose that edge, I think his skills will probably follow." That's where Bryant is afraid he is slipping: It is getting harder for him to do all this work – and just like a lot of you with high integrity in far less visible and celebrated jobs, Bryant only wants to do this if he can do this right.

For now, though, watching him closely during this game that matters now but will ultimately be impossible to remember separate from the other 1,339 ... it's still uber-competitive Kobe.

The determination to humble a younger, stronger player trying to guard him and gain at his expense.

The look in Bryant's eyes that shows he views Minnesota's zone defense as some personal insult to his jump shot.

The four-letter word he mutters after misjudging his opponent's drive toward him and failing to draw the charge or block the shot.

The private steaming and shaking his head on the bench as the fourth quarter begins, still dwelling on the turnover he committed late in the third quarter, even though he'd redeemed it with a bucket on the final possession and the victory already was essentially secure.

It's all the same as it ever was.

And even if that is more draining than it used to be for Bryant to maintain, it's also proof he still embraces the challenge.

What will Kobe be like when there is no more elbow sprain to shake, no 3-point slump to break out of, no technical-foul-suspension assumption to destroy, no next ring to win?

He says he has always done everything in life early, which would indicate he's willing to retire early, too.

But this is different. This will be turning himself off at the energy source.

No matter how interesting the next chapter seems to him now, that is too precious a natural resource to waste.


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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby Magic Skywalker on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:09 am

Double post, sorry.
Last edited by Magic Skywalker on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby escobar8 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:30 am

good read...i agree, he can give us more than another year...i think it will lot depend about 2014 FA signing...
if we put god roster he want give up on chance to win another ring...
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby GoldenKnight on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:35 am

The Rock wrote:He looked like the 2008 version of himself, the ease with which he was fillin up the basket


Exactly what I said LOL it's crazy how even while playing THIS good it still wasn't a PRIME Kobe like performance, that's how good he was back then.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:41 am

I kind of disagree. What I'm seeing now... I think it's the emptying of the tank honestly. This is Kobe saying "two years left, I had better make sure there's nothing left to burn". Yes he looks better than ever, but I think that's because he's pushing as hard as ever to destroy every bit of basketball left in his legs. There's no more "save it, there's more basketball to be played" so he's playing like it.

We'll see what happens next summer, but I'm pretty sure we're watching the end. That's why it's so beautiful.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:52 am

- He makes it look easy but as he said this is a lot of work and sacrifices off the court... something he may not be willing to do for several more years

Kobe isn't the kind of player who will pass the torch and become a 2 or 2b option on his team ... sure he could play another 3-4 years and score 18-20 a game if we acquired a legit 1st option ... Kobe said he won't do that.

As amazing as he has been on the offensive end , he's been a weak pt on D more often than not ... age and mileage have of course a lot to do with this .
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby denimPortugal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:36 am

:bow: :bow:
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby The Rock on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:07 am

Its beautiful to watch when Kobe is scoring like this...hes arguably the best scorer in the league if we wants to fill it up so be it, the rest need to rally around that
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby JLaker17 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:15 am

Crazy after all these years in the league, with all the injuries on his body, at 34 he can still play at this high of a level.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby last stand on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:06 am

therealdeal wrote:I kind of disagree. What I'm seeing now... I think it's the emptying of the tank honestly. This is Kobe saying "two years left, I had better make sure there's nothing left to burn". Yes he looks better than ever, but I think that's because he's pushing as hard as ever to destroy every bit of basketball left in his legs. There's no more "save it, there's more basketball to be played" so he's playing like it.

We'll see what happens next summer, but I'm pretty sure we're watching the end. That's why it's so beautiful.


There is something to this. Kobe knows his body more than anyone. If he's so sure about only 1,2 more years it may be that he feels his body is close to sinking
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby TIME on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:07 am

I hate hate hate the idea of Kobe leaving the game, BUT, I would rather see him leave while he was still playing at a high level. Jim Brown did it. Wilt did it. Barry Sanders did it. I don't want to see him like Emmitt Smith hanging on just to grab for a stat record. If he leaves on top there will always be that mystery that Jordan would have had if he stayed retired after that last championship shot against Utah. Those Washington years only diminished him a bit. Kareem held on too long and his last year was only a small shadow.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:35 am

last stand wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I kind of disagree. What I'm seeing now... I think it's the emptying of the tank honestly. This is Kobe saying "two years left, I had better make sure there's nothing left to burn". Yes he looks better than ever, but I think that's because he's pushing as hard as ever to destroy every bit of basketball left in his legs. There's no more "save it, there's more basketball to be played" so he's playing like it.

We'll see what happens next summer, but I'm pretty sure we're watching the end. That's why it's so beautiful.


There is something to this. Kobe knows his body more than anyone. If he's so sure about only 1,2 more years it may be that he feels his body is close to sinking

Well in the story it kind of hints at that and I can see it. Sometimes it seems Kobe's driven right now because he's afraid of the time when his body will break down completely. I think he's just emptying the tank so that when he DOES end it, it's ended because he said so. It's done because he MADE it that way.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby Weezy on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:40 am

Kevin Ding loves him some Kobe, that's why he wrote that above all else. No Kobe means his job is a lot less interesting, he's been writing about him for as long as I can remember. In my opinion though, 18, 19 years and retiring while still great is fine, that's a ton of years, and Kobe has said he won't stick around and lose his hunger to win, or be a role player.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby Lakerjones on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:43 am

therealdeal wrote:
last stand wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I kind of disagree. What I'm seeing now... I think it's the emptying of the tank honestly. This is Kobe saying "two years left, I had better make sure there's nothing left to burn". Yes he looks better than ever, but I think that's because he's pushing as hard as ever to destroy every bit of basketball left in his legs. There's no more "save it, there's more basketball to be played" so he's playing like it.

We'll see what happens next summer, but I'm pretty sure we're watching the end. That's why it's so beautiful.


There is something to this. Kobe knows his body more than anyone. If he's so sure about only 1,2 more years it may be that he feels his body is close to sinking

Well in the story it kind of hints at that and I can see it. Sometimes it seems Kobe's driven right now because he's afraid of the time when his body will break down completely. I think he's just emptying the tank so that when he DOES end it, it's ended because he said so. It's done because he MADE it that way.


^^ Very, very insightful posts realdeal. Like Laststand said, I think you're really onto something. Kobe does have a bit of a control freak nature to him. I can feel it too, that he wants to be in control of when he calls it quits.

I've said it before here, that personally I feel like Kobe could go another 3-4 years max barring any major injury, simply because he is the most fundamentally skilled and sound player I have EVER had the pleasure to watch. On top of that he takes such good care of himself in terms of being in shape and being prepared. He could definitely keep it rolling for 3-4 at a high level although of course not at as high as his current level. If he moved a little bit more towards off ball play alongside Dwight and Nash it would extend his career. They could run more screens for him off ball to get him loose for shots.

But like you said, I think you're on to something. If he hangs it up in a couple years I would be sad but I would totally get it, too. It seems more likely than not that he probably will.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:51 am

Thanks LJ!

Yeah, I agree he actually could have a few more years in him if he played the roll that Nash is playing now: off the ball movement mostly.

I think the problem is with players of his stature do they want to do that? That'd mean no more discussing "Kobe's a top 5 player in the game" and no more "Kobe can still drop 40 whenever he wants" kind of thing. And I think in the end he doesn't want to be around for that. I totally understand that feeling and while as a fan I would love to see him play until his legs fell off, as a person I get where he's coming from.

In the end, It's just going to make me treasure what we're seeing now all the more and what we're going to see next season as well.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby Lakerjones on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:59 am

^^ Totally agree with you realdeal. :bow:
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:06 am

:jam2:

The last time I remember him looking so fresh on the court was this:
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:00 pm

part of it like what MJ wanted as well, to go out on top. But I think it also depends on the team he has; if his team can make another run at a title, I can see him go another year for that.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:27 pm

I can't blame him for wanting to hang his sneakers up after next season. The game has changed. It's about fastness and power. Blake Griffin, LeBron, CP3, Ricky Rubio, Kevin Durant etc.. Even point guards have become a little more athletic. Gracefulness, fundamentals and old school style of basketball is long gone. Kobe's the only player who still embodies that kind of basketball, but it's boring to fans this day and age. Look around and see fans get more excited over super athletic style games, definitely not the old school graceful players anymore. We prefer the "modern" player now. Also Kobe's body is going to fold. He's the only player in the recent sports imo who's been "constantly" changing their diet, workout routines and rituals lol, if you will to fit each generation of basketball. He can't keep doing that as he ages, it's probably tiring now with so much wear and tear. I think he knows his body is breaking down and he doesn't want to retire when it's completely gone. I honestly see where he's coming from. But this thread brought all kinds of emotions out of me :man6:

I feel sorry for those who've spent their basketball lives hating on him and belittling him because they've missed a AMAZINGLY GREAT player that was unique and no one will ever see again. Oh well never know what you've got until it's gone.
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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:33 pm

Kobe Bryant, on whether he's learned from the struggles of Michael Jordan post-retirement:
"Yeah. You try to. You definitely try to. He has the gift and the curse of having gone first. I have the gift and the curse of having gone second. I get a chance to watch and learn from things that he's done. The good and the bad."

My question was prompted by the host of "M.J. at 50" stories published during All-Star weekend (the best coming from Wright Thompson of ESPN.com). I was wondering if he'd read any.

He had.

The rest of the exchange, with questions from me and other media members...

How well do you think you're going to be able to channel the competitiveness?

"The key is to find something you can sink you teeth into, and obsess about. That's really at the crux of it. We both have obsessive personalities."

MJ said managing his own ego has been a challenge.

"That probably plays a part. That's coming from him, so I obviously haven't dealt with the retirement part of it yet. I'm going to try to find something I can put my ego into, I guess."

You've learned things about how to handle the end of your career as well, right?

"Absolutely."

Like what?

"I think finding an area before you retire that you want to do, that you want to be passionate about. I think that's really the biggest challenge for every athlete, is to find something that you really want to do. A lot of us wait until the last year, until you retire, and try to figure that out. Then it takes five or whatever years. Some people never figure it out. I've tried to begin that process."

Is that why you talk so openly about it?
"No, you guys ask me… I'm frank about telling you."

Have you found that thing to be passionate about? Is it doing the work with the homeless (though his foundation)?

"I mean, besides that. Besides doing things that are humanitarian efforts. You have to have a job. You're retired, I'll be 35, 36 years old. I'm not just going to sit and do nothing."

You don't have to work, though. You have plenty of money.

"F*** that. I need to do something. I need to find something I can obsess about. I know what I'm going to do."

(He wouldn't say what, specifically, so we -- in jest -- started speculating.)

Try out for the White Sox?
"No."

Join Shaq on TNT?
"No."

Buy the Bobcats?
"No."

I'll have more thoughts on Kobe's post-playing days, but the exchange had a bunch of interesting moments. Overall, I think he'll enter retirement better prepped than MJ.


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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:33 pm

Kobe Bryant, on whether he's learned from the struggles of Michael Jordan post-retirement:
"Yeah. You try to. You definitely try to. He has the gift and the curse of having gone first. I have the gift and the curse of having gone second. I get a chance to watch and learn from things that he's done. The good and the bad."

My question was prompted by the host of "M.J. at 50" stories published during All-Star weekend (the best coming from Wright Thompson of ESPN.com). I was wondering if he'd read any.

He had.

The rest of the exchange, with questions from me and other media members...

How well do you think you're going to be able to channel the competitiveness?

"The key is to find something you can sink you teeth into, and obsess about. That's really at the crux of it. We both have obsessive personalities."

MJ said managing his own ego has been a challenge.

"That probably plays a part. That's coming from him, so I obviously haven't dealt with the retirement part of it yet. I'm going to try to find something I can put my ego into, I guess."

You've learned things about how to handle the end of your career as well, right?

"Absolutely."

Like what?

"I think finding an area before you retire that you want to do, that you want to be passionate about. I think that's really the biggest challenge for every athlete, is to find something that you really want to do. A lot of us wait until the last year, until you retire, and try to figure that out. Then it takes five or whatever years. Some people never figure it out. I've tried to begin that process."

Is that why you talk so openly about it?
"No, you guys ask me… I'm frank about telling you."

Have you found that thing to be passionate about? Is it doing the work with the homeless (though his foundation)?

"I mean, besides that. Besides doing things that are humanitarian efforts. You have to have a job. You're retired, I'll be 35, 36 years old. I'm not just going to sit and do nothing."

You don't have to work, though. You have plenty of money.

"F*** that. I need to do something. I need to find something I can obsess about. I know what I'm going to do."

(He wouldn't say what, specifically, so we -- in jest -- started speculating.)

Try out for the White Sox?
"No."

Join Shaq on TNT?
"No."

Buy the Bobcats?
"No."

I'll have more thoughts on Kobe's post-playing days, but the exchange had a bunch of interesting moments. Overall, I think he'll enter retirement better prepped than MJ.


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Re: Kobe Discussion:"Amnesty THAT"

Postby karacha on Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:02 pm

He would be a much better analyst then most of those athletes we see on TV these days.
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