Kobe Bryant Discussion: Reason for Lakers downfall?

Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:29 pm

This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK. Thats Nash's job. Kobe's job is to put the ball in the hole. Hes out of rhythm and hes overpassing to dudes who are not consistent scorers. Pau squandered so many open shots in the 4th today especially in the paint. Enough is enough. 4 straight blown leads
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby therealdeal on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:32 pm

The Rock wrote:This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK.

One of the silliest things I've ever read. Since Kobe started passing more we're 5-1.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:33 pm

therealdeal wrote:
The Rock wrote:This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK.

One of the silliest things I've ever read. Since Kobe started passing more we're 5-1.

agreed.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby KB24 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:33 pm

The Rock wrote:This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK. Thats Nash's job. Kobe's job is to put the ball in the hole. Hes out of rhythm and hes overpassing to dudes who are not consistent scorers. Pau squandered so many open shots in the 4th today especially in the paint. Enough is enough. 4 straight blown leads

not sure you are serious.

I would rather have 4 blown leads than 4 blow out losses. As soon as Kobe goes back to jacking up stupid shots we lose again. Today he had more field goal attempts than points and we almost paid for it.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:34 pm

Its fools gold. We've also blown leads in the last 4 games. Hes out of rhythm, his shot looks broke. Its not like he's passing the ball and we're sustaining the lead??? Dont you think the 5-1 record also has to do with the competition we're playing...Minny, New Orleans, Detroit, I mean come on
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:34 pm

He's missed 20 of his last 21 three pointers. Wow
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:35 pm

The Rock wrote:Its fools gold. We've also blown leads in the last 4 games. Hes out of rhythm, his shot looks broke. Its not like he's passing the ball and we're sustaining the lead??? Dont you think the 5-1 record also has to do with the competition we're playing...Minny, New Orleans, Detroit, I mean come on


Um building big leads, losing them, and still winning is better than playing from behind the entire game and making an actual fools gold run at the end only to lose. That's what this team was doing before the Utah game.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Biz on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:36 pm

KB24 wrote:
The Rock wrote:This Kobe facilitator crap DOES NOT WORK. Thats Nash's job. Kobe's job is to put the ball in the hole. Hes out of rhythm and hes overpassing to dudes who are not consistent scorers. Pau squandered so many open shots in the 4th today especially in the paint. Enough is enough. 4 straight blown leads

not sure you are serious.

I would rather have 4 blown leads than 4 blow out losses. As soon as Kobe goes back to jacking up stupid shots we lose again. Today he had more field goal attempts than points and we almost paid for it.


Yeah agree. Earlier in the season we were playing from behind what seemed to be every game. Not saying that blowing leads is a good thing, but it's a lot better than trying to play catch up. Kobe is still new to this facilitator role, I think as he becomes more comfortable with this style he'll learn how to score better as well.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:38 pm

Im not saying stop passing the ball but be judicious about it. Look to score in one on one situations and then pass the ball to open man. Hes overpassing right now, Pau squandered so many open shots in the paint late in the 4th. Our margin of error will get slimmer when Dwight returns and he's gonna be forced to go to the FT line. How are we gonna hold onto the leads then?

I still think the reason we're 5-1 or whatever is because of the competition we're facing and not our style of play. This is fools gold.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:43 pm

We were losing to bad teams on a regular basis prior to going 5-1. We're not above any team to be chalking it up to bad competition. Besides we beat Utah which destroyed us in our own building a month ago, OKC, a NOH team that had a better record than we've had all season once they got Gordon back, and a Pistons team that is actually improved.

This is definitely not the result of just playing bad teams.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby KB24 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:44 pm

The Rock wrote:Im not saying stop passing the ball but be judicious about it. Look to score in one on one situations and then pass the ball to open man. Hes overpassing right now, Pau squandered so many open shots in the paint late in the 4th. Our margin of error will get slimmer when Dwight returns and he's gonna be forced to go to the FT line. How are we gonna hold onto the leads then?

I still think the reason we're 5-1 or whatever is because of the competition we're facing and not our style of play. This is fools gold.


You are not right IMO. We have been playing at a slower pace and reduced the amount of transition situations that easily kill the Lakers. That, combined with Gasol playing better, Jamison having 5 straight double digit games etc. has helped the Lakers to balance things out and win a game like today, even though the 3 ball wasn't falling.

Why do you ignore beating the Thunder? that was a great win.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:47 pm

The offense is fine ... No D12 in the paint is the reason Detroit almost won
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Armani on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:48 pm

Too many shots tonight, not enough assists. More passing.

... And before everyone else pounces on me for saying this, I am just going with what works. Him limiting his shots to 15 or less works much better for this team. Everyone is involved, and we get the W. :man11:
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby ElginTheGreat on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:48 pm

The Rock wrote:Im not saying stop passing the ball but be judicious about it. Look to score in one on one situations and then pass the ball to open man. Hes overpassing right now, Pau squandered so many open shots in the paint late in the 4th. Our margin of error will get slimmer when Dwight returns and he's gonna be forced to go to the FT line. How are we gonna hold onto the leads then?

I still think the reason we're 5-1 or whatever is because of the competition we're facing and not our style of play. This is fools gold.


I think Kobe will have to look score more if/when we get to the playoffs. But right now this style of play is having a good effect on the rest of the team. Even losing the leads, we have played more as a team and with a lot more energy overall.

Also, I much prefer running out to leads, losing them, but still winning to letting the other team get a 20 point lead on us and watch us make a futile comeback attempt in the last 6 minutes of the game.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Finwë on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:49 pm

The Rock wrote:Its fools gold. We've also blown leads in the last 4 games. Hes out of rhythm, his shot looks broke. Its not like he's passing the ball and we're sustaining the lead??? Dont you think the 5-1 record also has to do with the competition we're playing...Minny, New Orleans, Detroit, I mean come on

I think Rock does have a point.
IMO Kobe's new pass-first attitude did provide a nice spark for the team, our ball movement improved, and because role players were playing well we started winning games. It also helped that Howard was playing and was the main benefficiary (?) of Kobe's assists.

I do feel, and have said so many times, that this new thing may hurt us in some ways. Mainly, it's clearly getting in the way of Kobe finding a good scoring rythm, and when we need him to close on tough games (like tonight for example), it turns out that he's not as effective or able to do it as before. He's looking more pedestrian and much less lethal. His shot is off, particulary his long jumpers. It's obvious.

Now, the question is, will we keep winning playing like this? Our role players and shooters aren't consistent at all. Howard's out, and Gasol is not close to him as a finisher around the basket. Nash doesn't shoot enough. Kobe should be our go-to guy in situations like this, and we've got him out of rythm and passing it out to inconsistent shooters. When he tries to take over, it doesn't work as well, like we saw tonight, because without proper rythm it gets harder to make long Js and fades in the post (aka Kobe's go-to shots...).

I think the Brooklyn game will provide the answer. If Howard's out, we're gonna need great offensive production, because we know our D won't be that good. Will that come from our role players and shooters that Kobe tries to find? What if they aren't making shots? Should Kobe try to start scoring? What if he's out of rythm then?
We need better balance, and we need one of the best scorers in the game to be a scoring threat. Yeah the passing's nice, but it defeats the purpose if it neutralizes our best scoring option and over-relies on inconsistent role players. It's not like our D is awesome because of it (as some suggested at first).
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:49 pm

Kobe took 20 shots Rock, what more do you want? As for Kobe, not a great 4th, but overall even a 'bad' game for him he gave us 18 and 5.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:50 pm

I have no gripes about the style of playing, slowing it down, posting up, etc thats fine with me...but each players have specific strengths, Nash's passing, Pau is post play, Kobe is scoring. We gotta utilize that. These are your core players, this is how they've played for a decade plus to be successful in this league to completely go away from that is just gonna lead to more confusion. Guys like MWP, Pau will take liberty to take long range shots now. I feel really strong about this. Ball movement, facilitating is critical but looking for your own shot while you're one of the best scorers in the league is also important
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Scnottaken on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:52 pm

Armani wrote:Too many shots tonight, not enough assists. More passing.

... And before everyone else pounces on me for saying this, I am just going with what works. Him limiting his shots to 15 or less works much better for this team. Everyone is involved, and we get the W. :man11:

I thought he passed well, no one was making shots though. I believe Billy and Stu said as much during the game.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:52 pm

KB24 wrote:
The Rock wrote:Im not saying stop passing the ball but be judicious about it. Look to score in one on one situations and then pass the ball to open man. Hes overpassing right now, Pau squandered so many open shots in the paint late in the 4th. Our margin of error will get slimmer when Dwight returns and he's gonna be forced to go to the FT line. How are we gonna hold onto the leads then?

I still think the reason we're 5-1 or whatever is because of the competition we're facing and not our style of play. This is fools gold.


You are not right IMO. We have been playing at a slower pace and reduced the amount of transition situations that easily kill the Lakers. That, combined with Gasol playing better, Jamison having 5 straight double digit games etc. has helped the Lakers to balance things out and win a game like today, even though the 3 ball wasn't falling.

Why do you ignore beating the Thunder? that was a great win.



The Thunder game he was definitely looking for his shot early. HE drew the double and then passed. Each of the last 3 games right now hes just passing without even drawing the double, thats my main gripe thats all
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Finwë on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:54 pm

KB24 wrote:
The Rock wrote:Im not saying stop passing the ball but be judicious about it. Look to score in one on one situations and then pass the ball to open man. Hes overpassing right now, Pau squandered so many open shots in the paint late in the 4th. Our margin of error will get slimmer when Dwight returns and he's gonna be forced to go to the FT line. How are we gonna hold onto the leads then?

I still think the reason we're 5-1 or whatever is because of the competition we're facing and not our style of play. This is fools gold.


You are not right IMO. We have been playing at a slower pace and reduced the amount of transition situations that easily kill the Lakers. That, combined with Gasol playing better, Jamison having 5 straight double digit games etc. has helped the Lakers to balance things out and win a game like today, even though the 3 ball wasn't falling.

Why do you ignore beating the Thunder? that was a great win.

I don't think any of that would go away simply by Kobe taking easy shots early. Everyone on the team is playing with an "if you have a good shot, take it" mentality, I'm simply saying Kobe should do the same. I've seen him pass up many of those just to find a 3pt shooter who isn't consistent. Maybe making a couple of those would've kept Kobe in a better scoring rythm and help him be more effective to close games.

The Thunder win was a great one, yes, but Kobe played out of his mind that day. He found a way to close the game and be very effective while dishing out pass after pass. But what if doesn't get those easy looks to get himself into rythm ? Do you think he still closes effectively? Not necessarily.
He also played on the post a lot more on that game, which is what he should have been doing tonight.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby The Rock on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:59 pm

" Everyone on the team is playing with an "if you have a good shot, take it" mentality, I'm simply saying Kobe should do the same. "

^ that is all
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Finwë on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:59 pm

Weezy wrote:Kobe took 20 shots Rock, what more do you want? As for Kobe, not a great 4th, but overall even a 'bad' game for him he gave us 18 and 5.

Yeah but most of the shots came late in the second half, looking to stop the bleeding, and he wasn't in a great rythm, IMO because he didn't take advantage of easier looks to start the game. It's very difficult to just switch modes like that, to go from passing to scoring, tough to expect him to be very efficient like that.
Late in the third to me he didn't look at all like himself. He didn't look like a threat to score how you needed to guard and keep close to, he looked way more pedestrian. IMO it's because of this mode-switching thing, not having a good rythm. He needs to find a better balance, 'cause we are gonna need him to hit some shots when we're playing tougher teams.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Jellincon on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:04 pm

I think most of it comes down to Kobe's possessions in the post. For the past few games we have been running the O through Kobe in the post for like the 1st quarter but then we go away from that for large portions of the game (especially the 2nd half). In the 2nd half he's been running more pick n roll which he's still very effective at running facilitator wise but it hinders some of his scoring opportunities.

The new Kobe was used best against OKC where he spent practically the entire game in the post doing work against Sefolosha at an efficient rate and he was still able to rack up the assists. IMO the more he's in the post, the better he'll be able to balance the scorer/facilitator role.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby Maluco Beleza on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:06 pm

what kobe is doing right now is fine. He just needs to know when to take a shot when it is there and not pass it up just to prove that he can pass. The true fans know he can pass with the best of them in the history of the game.
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Re: Kobe Bryant Discussion: Magic Mamba

Postby KB24 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:10 pm

The Rock wrote:" Everyone on the team is playing with an "if you have a good shot, take it" mentality, I'm simply saying Kobe should do the same. "

^ that is all

you don't have to worry about Kobe taking a "good shot, when there is one" IMO.

Do I want Kobe to finish better? yes. So in a sense I see where you are coming from. But really, IMO if you want the Lakers to be great, Kobe needs to figure it out. He needs to be able to balance it out. He has never in his career been able to balance out shooting and passing effectively. Either shooting too much or passing too much rather than reading the defense (which he claims like every 3 games at least once during the past 17 years).

Kobe has never tried to "take what the defense gives him". He has always made his mind up before the game what he is looking to do (pass in the first half, shoot in the second half, shoot all game long, pass all game long, pass in the first and 3rd quarter and shoot in the second and fourth etc.).

This is Kobe's problem to figure out rather than anybody else's...guys like Ray Allen or Steve Nash are known clutch performers who don't shoot much either during the game.

Does Kobe overpass right now? certainly there are situations where he does. But Kobe overpassing a few times is better than Kobe missing a few fallaways that result in transition defense for the Lakers. If the Lakers play right, there won't be that "clutch" situation at all and Kobe would be on the bench. For us to allow the Pistons to come back was the issue and has been in the last few games and thats rather a collective collapse rather than Kobe not being in rhythem to stop the bleeing.

You can't sacrifice chemistry and screw Gasol, Nash and Howard just for Kobe to be clutch if there is a clutch situation. Bottom line is this team with this personell isn't going to accept Kobe jacking up shots and I can't blame them. I don't expect Kobe to have 11 assists a game but average around 7 should definitely be possibe. It isn't so much keeping others happy but keeping them interested and not watch Kobe go to work 1 on 5. He is 34, getting closer to 35. You can't expect the same Kobe as 8 years ago.
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