Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby JGC on Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:46 pm

therealdeal wrote:This is the first you'd said that Kobe giving his All-Star MVP trophy to Shaq's son might have had something to do with it. That's a good point, but it really doesn't support your previous point.


I think it is a gradual thing. I don't believe the realization is something that happens overnight. So I believe the realization happened at some point in that season for Shaq, and perhaps might have been punctuated by the gift of the All-Star trophy to his son.

therealdeal wrote:In 2010 Kobe took the last jab yes, but I'm not entirely sure that Shaq wasn't taking jabs. I'd need to see a lot of proof that he stopped taking jabs before I just accepted this point.


I'm not sure you'll ever get proof that he stopped taking jabs, so you'll have to go by virtue of the fact that there isn't any proof that he was. Which, I don't think there was, or at least, I don't recall.

therealdeal wrote:LOL you might not be saying that now, but it was certainly what you said in your previous posts. Unless you didn't articulate it that way, but if that's the case I can hardly be held accountable for the words you said. Shaq's decline physically and within the game of basketball was one of my points actually. Once retired (i.e. no longer able to perform at an NBA level), Shaq could no longer say much to Kobe; especially after Kobe won his next 2 rings without him.


I said that a lot of what had to do with them burying the hatchet was Shaq starting to decline (as opposed to it being the 5th ring). When that happens, your game can't back up your talk so you have to START taking a step (or two or three) back. Sure, events like the ASG, 4th ring, 5th ring, etc can expound on that but I personally think it was finally 'over' as in, hatred no longer dwindling for Shaq during the events of ASG. This was marked by the fact that there are no known instances that I can see, of Shaq jabbing at Kobe after this event. Are you seeing the difference? I think maybe you're seeing the turning point being at a singular time, whereas, I'm looking at the feud as something that dissipated over time, first and foremost, for Shaq because of his decline.

therealdeal wrote:I remember Shaq being very gracious then and I believe that to have been genuine. In fact, I remember congratulating Shaq on congratulating Kobe.
It was good to see. The ASG was especially nice because it was on a personal level and not just basketball.

therealdeal wrote:A championship ring is always a statement ring. And I think it's funny that you don't think THIS ring was a statement ring when Kobe has recently said that winning without Shaq was an obsession for him. Winning one more than Shaq was something that Kobe drove himself on.

Here's a direct quote from Kobe expressing the superiority he feels over having more than Shaq:
I saw him after the All-Star Game and said, ‘How you doing, ‘Four’ ?’ He said, ‘Oh, you [expletive].’
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2013/04/kobe-bryant-always-reminds-shaquille-oneal-he-has-more-championships/

It's from a short article titled "Kobe Bryant Always Reminds Shaquille O'Neal He Has More Championships".

Clearly that last ring is quite the statement.


Totally agree it was a statement ring. Not sure if you noticed how I said "in this regard" though. Of course a ring is a statement! But, I don't believe it was a statement IN THIS REGARD because it had (and does) seem to me that it had been over for Shaq for quite some time by that point.

I also wouldn't argue that it was a statement for Kobe. It was DEFINITELY a statement for Kobe. Just don't think it was for Shaq.

therealdeal wrote:But again since we've somehow found ourselves a bit off topic. This is more about how Kobe Bryant appreciates the work and the intensity that Shaq brought to the game. Kobe doesn't see that from many people anymore. It's something he's trying to develop in Dwight and it seems to be working, but it's obviously a different beast.


Well, it's no mystery how we got here. All I said it was neat how he appreciates Shaq and you responded with a tangent about Shaq having to swallow his pride and can't say a damn thing back because of the 5th ring. Haha.

I agree about players not seeming to have that intensity as much any more. But I think a lot of that may have to do with it being less externalized than it was in the past and that's probably due to branding, and social media, and cameras absolutely everywhere.

I think one of the more intense players in the league is Russell Westbrook and no one likes him. LOL. So maybe it's more a statement about today's fans and how what we're willing to pay money for affects players.
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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby OX1947 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:05 pm

Combination of Kobe wanting his own team, Shaq declining because of poor work ethic and the final, and least talked about blow, the invent of the zone defense, the Lakers lost a chance of possibly having the greatest run in the modern game. With the salary cap restrictions, there was no way any team could make a Celtic run from back in the day but Shaq and Kobe would have won 6 or 7 titles together had they kept their heads together.

Imagine what the 2000's would have looked like had they ran together from 2000-2010. They had won the first 3 in the decade. Then Shaq decided to have surgery in 2003 a little later then he should, Lakers had no one to cover him the first 30 games and Laker put themselves in a hole where they had to scratch and claw through Minny and then almost beat the Spurs. If that Spurs series starts in LA, the Lakers win that series and the Spurs were the only legit threat that year. Then in 2004, you lose two key cogs at the end, Fox with his injury and Horry being bounced and then Malone goes down. All this could have been avoided had Kobe and Shaq sat does in the Detroit series and figured out the best thing to win. They were playing against the Pistons and each other.

It's sad that it had to come to this but this is the world we created. The "who's team is it" mentality and all this nonsense that was created to kill the team. And Shaq and Kobe ate it up and believed it all. All they had to do was sit down and come to an understanding from a professional level, on where they need to be and Shaq would have retired a Laker and Kobe and Shaq would officially have been the greatest duo in sports history. Instead, you have Shaq, who had a great career, but still had a lot left unfulfilled considering how dominate he was. And Kobe had to waste 5 years of his prime years chasing a title when he should have been winning a couple more during that time.

Kareem did it for Magic, therefore, in my book, this should have happened with Shaq and Kobe.
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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby Maluco Beleza on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:57 pm

ok although nobody here really agrees with me

can't we all agree that at the end of the day these 2 should have done
anything to stay together. Could have won alot more.

Kobe could have played with Shaq til he retired and then tried to win without
him after he retired. but it is what it is.
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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby gcclaker on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:16 pm

^Woulda, coulda, shoulda... Just egos, both of them.
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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:30 pm

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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:42 pm

oh my... this thread turned interesting.... ok that may be excessive but still
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby Cleansed on Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:20 pm

OX1947 wrote:...

Kareem did it for Magic, therefore, in my book, this should have happened with Shaq and Kobe.


The longer i progress through this life the more cemented i become in the belief that "the less said the better". The quote above more or less sums up my opinion.

Question: I recall when Kobe and Shaq were co-MVP's (and that at the time the perspective was that the ALL STAR MVP was clearly Kobes and the Co-MVP charade was manufactured) that it was widely believed that Kobe gave Shaq the trophy out of "disgust" at the manufactured sharing of the honor. I believe the at the time many noted the negative disposition of Kobe when they shared the podium . I also recall Kobes publicly given reason regarding giving Shaq the physical trophy being due to it likely being the last time Shaq would win such an honor and that Kobe knew he would/could win another.

Has this been touched upon in the thread? :man3:
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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby trodgers on Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:29 pm

Maluco Beleza wrote:ok although nobody here really agrees with me

can't we all agree that at the end of the day these 2 should have done
anything to stay together. Could have won alot more.

Kobe could have played with Shaq til he retired and then tried to win without
him after he retired. but it is what it is.

"Anything"? Nah; but they both could've done more. And they probably should've. But Shaq wanted crazy money, and we made the right decision in not giving it to him. Kobe wanted crazy money, and we did the right thing in giving it to him.
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Re: Kobe Now Appreciates His Former Foe

Postby JGC on Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:26 pm

trodgers wrote:
Maluco Beleza wrote:ok although nobody here really agrees with me

can't we all agree that at the end of the day these 2 should have done
anything to stay together. Could have won alot more.

Kobe could have played with Shaq til he retired and then tried to win without
him after he retired. but it is what it is.

"Anything"? Nah; but they both could've done more. And they probably should've. But Shaq wanted crazy money, and we made the right decision in not giving it to him. Kobe wanted crazy money, and we did the right thing in giving it to him.


This. I still think we made the right decision to stick with Kobe and not Shaq too. Could they have won more? Possibly. But we couldn't with Karl Malone and Gary Payton so when Shaq got his massive extension who could we have realistically acquired that would have been better than Karl Malone and Gary Payton? It's possible that sticking with Shaq for another longer term, albatross of a contract actually could have prevented us from winning the two that Kobe got on his own.

Retrospectively, we know we got two rings the way history has been written. I'll take that any day. Would I forgo those to go back and sign Shaq and risk getting none for the upside of maybe getting 3 instead of 2? Nope.

It didn't seem like the right move at the time, in fact, I think a lot of fans labeled Mitch the worst GM in the history of the franchise but but sometimes you have to take 2 steps back to take 4 steps forward.
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