therealdeal wrote:This is the first you'd said that Kobe giving his All-Star MVP trophy to Shaq's son might have had something to do with it. That's a good point, but it really doesn't support your previous point.
I think it is a gradual thing. I don't believe the realization is something that happens overnight. So I believe the realization happened at some point in that season for Shaq, and perhaps might have been punctuated by the gift of the All-Star trophy to his son.
therealdeal wrote:In 2010 Kobe took the last jab yes, but I'm not entirely sure that Shaq wasn't taking jabs. I'd need to see a lot of proof that he stopped taking jabs before I just accepted this point.
I'm not sure you'll ever get proof that he stopped taking jabs, so you'll have to go by virtue of the fact that there isn't any proof that he was. Which, I don't think there was, or at least, I don't recall.
therealdeal wrote:LOL you might not be saying that now, but it was certainly what you said in your previous posts. Unless you didn't articulate it that way, but if that's the case I can hardly be held accountable for the words you said. Shaq's decline physically and within the game of basketball was one of my points actually. Once retired (i.e. no longer able to perform at an NBA level), Shaq could no longer say much to Kobe; especially after Kobe won his next 2 rings without him.
I said that a lot of what had to do with them burying the hatchet was Shaq starting to decline (as opposed to it being the 5th ring). When that happens, your game can't back up your talk so you have to START taking a step (or two or three) back. Sure, events like the ASG, 4th ring, 5th ring, etc can expound on that but I personally think it was finally 'over' as in, hatred no longer dwindling for Shaq during the events of ASG. This was marked by the fact that there are no known instances that I can see, of Shaq jabbing at Kobe after this event. Are you seeing the difference? I think maybe you're seeing the turning point being at a singular time, whereas, I'm looking at the feud as something that dissipated over time, first and foremost, for Shaq because of his decline.
It was good to see. The ASG was especially nice because it was on a personal level and not just basketball.therealdeal wrote:I remember Shaq being very gracious then and I believe that to have been genuine. In fact, I remember congratulating Shaq on congratulating Kobe.
therealdeal wrote:A championship ring is always a statement ring. And I think it's funny that you don't think THIS ring was a statement ring when Kobe has recently said that winning without Shaq was an obsession for him. Winning one more than Shaq was something that Kobe drove himself on.
Here's a direct quote from Kobe expressing the superiority he feels over having more than Shaq:http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2013/04/kobe-bryant-always-reminds-shaquille-oneal-he-has-more-championships/I saw him after the All-Star Game and said, ‘How you doing, ‘Four’ ?’ He said, ‘Oh, you [expletive].’
It's from a short article titled "Kobe Bryant Always Reminds Shaquille O'Neal He Has More Championships".
Clearly that last ring is quite the statement.
Totally agree it was a statement ring. Not sure if you noticed how I said "in this regard" though. Of course a ring is a statement! But, I don't believe it was a statement IN THIS REGARD because it had (and does) seem to me that it had been over for Shaq for quite some time by that point.
I also wouldn't argue that it was a statement for Kobe. It was DEFINITELY a statement for Kobe. Just don't think it was for Shaq.
therealdeal wrote:But again since we've somehow found ourselves a bit off topic. This is more about how Kobe Bryant appreciates the work and the intensity that Shaq brought to the game. Kobe doesn't see that from many people anymore. It's something he's trying to develop in Dwight and it seems to be working, but it's obviously a different beast.
Well, it's no mystery how we got here. All I said it was neat how he appreciates Shaq and you responded with a tangent about Shaq having to swallow his pride and can't say a damn thing back because of the 5th ring. Haha.
I agree about players not seeming to have that intensity as much any more. But I think a lot of that may have to do with it being less externalized than it was in the past and that's probably due to branding, and social media, and cameras absolutely everywhere.
I think one of the more intense players in the league is Russell Westbrook and no one likes him. LOL. So maybe it's more a statement about today's fans and how what we're willing to pay money for affects players.