trodgers wrote: JGC wrote:
trodgers wrote:JGC, if I can make one observation about something you wrote - you're much more often "on your way" to the forum when things go bad, in particular for Kobe, than you are when things go well for Kobe. It's an observation that has been made by more than a dozen posters.
I think that's probably a fair observation. However, attributing why I do that is where the mistake is made. It's a mistake (and one that is often made) to assume that the motivation is a deep rooted hate for Kobe Bryant. If that were the case, I'd take every opportunity to bag on him, not just losses! When the team plays the way I think they should, there's just less to say for me other than 'keep it up'. When they don't, there's a lot more to say about my opinions on what they should do to get back on track. My motivations in coming here are to talk about the Lakers TEAM, not specifically to wave pom-poms at the mention of any particular player's name.
You're probably making the same mistake you're accusing others of here.
What mistake is that? That for some of the others, the motivation is a deep rooted love for Kobe Bryant? But, more than a dozen posters have pointed that out so it must be true! Seriously though, our point is clear on this one I think. What might seem like hate or love at times may not necessarily be, regardless of whether 12 or more posters conclude so.
JGC wrote:Since I firmly believe that Kobe has, by a long mile, more impact than any other player on the team, it would only make sense then for me to comment about Kobe's play. It wouldn't make much sense for me to come in during losses and talk about what Robert Sacre should work on while in D-League.
I'm not sure whether you're trying to be satirical here or whether you think that the only things to talk about are how Kobe shafted the team and Robert Sacre's performance. Regardless of what you really believe, if you're interested in knowing why people read you in a certain way it's because you come off as incredibly disingenuous in these sorts of exchange.
Well, I wasn't trying to be satirical. I was simply using an extreme example to prove a point. But as you go up the proverbial food chain (starting with say, Sacre all the way up to Kobe) I think there is just a natural tendency for ALL posters, regardless of their motivations for posting, to talk more about the players that are higher in the pecking order so to speak. I don't believe that posters talk about all players on the team equally but that doesn't necessarily mean they love or hate those players, it just means they're talking the most about the players that they think matter the most.
And let's not kid ourselves here. If it was purely about sounding satirical/sarcastic, then there would be a number of posters on BOTH sides of the equation that were perceived to be disingenuous by those same people. Have you seen some of the responses in here to Kobe criticisms?? I don't see anyone (including mods in particular) suggesting to those who sarcastically respond to Kobe criticisms (and it is done on a regular basis mind you) that they come off as disingenuous. So what is it REALLY about then? Hmm.
JGC wrote:I think the #1 determining factor for this team's success is the play of Kobe Bryant. He should get a greater share of the credit when we are successful. But IMO, he should also get the greater share of the blame when we fail.
Maybe that's fine as a general principle, but we have Dwight Howard on our team, and it's clear that his performance at the FT line and on D can be game changers. And even if we look at Kobe's usage rate and say that he consumes 30% of the team's possessions, that means that he is both more responsible than any other player individually (on average) and far less responsible than other factors combined.
And that's why I don't think Kobe (or any single player) should ever get ALL of the credit or blame. You're right. There are other players on the team whose play can be game changers. That's why putting all of those other game changers in a position to succeed is so important, right?
JGC wrote:Whether Kobe Bryant plays on this team or not, the chances are that I'm going to post here more often after losses simply because there is more to discuss. My brother and I always call each other after a tough loss. We rarely discuss a 10 point victory over the Raptors though. It's not because we hate to see the Lakers win, it's because we hate to see the Lakers lose.
There's always something to discuss. Simply to assume as a general principle that there is more to discuss after a loss seems not just false but utterly indefensible.
Well, I didn't assume it as a general principle. I was talking specifically about me. For me, there is more to discuss when we don't play the way I think we should. And most of the time, when we lose, we don't play the way I think we should. Sometimes, we do play the way I think we should and we still lose, and so for me there isn't much to say other than, we played a better team today. On the flip side, there are games where we win, but we don't play the way I want them to, and I'll still be in here whining and moaning about it! Haha.